the galah

Your reply just confirms what i have just said. You just don't get the point i am making,or if you do you ignore it or simply don't care. Guilt or not in the Inca case is not the point. What Inca has shown is how many think dishonesty should not be exposed or even investigated. Collateral damage? So that"s what you think undermining punters confidence is.. The United states cases i have referred to clearly shows that many believe that those who lead the sport over there have turned a blind eye,and that ultimately will speed up the demise of the sport they are supposed to protect and administer.. It also proves 100% that performance enhancers were used,and as they put it had been a cancer,eating away at their sport for some time.. Remember the harnesslink stories of 3 or 4 years ago lambasting the meadowlands boss for the treatment he dared give to drug cheats. How dare he it said, when he had no proof. What a plonker he has proved to be.

Well it seems those that contribute to harnesslink in the USA have different views than the man who runs the nz side of things. Best to listen to this weeks edition before the audio is taken off the harnesslink website like they did last week. This time it has an interview with a former president and chairman of directors of the United states trotting association. Here's just a quick summation of what he had to say. Cheating is a cancer that has been eating away at harness racing. He is highly critical of the current leadership of the UTSA saying they are doing everything they can to stop light being shone on the corruption and use of drugs. That those that want the industry cleaned up are facing resistance from within the industry and that is why they need an independent investigative agency outside harness racing. The betting side and owner participation is being impacted because they have realised the industry is not a good industry to be in and is not being managed correctly when it comes to policing corruption. That is one of the reasons the industry faces very difficult times ahead. He refers to yonkers(one of the tracks where cheating was prevalent ) and says the person that runs that track is unlikely to renew harness racings lease when it expires in 3 years time. Now lets be honest. The USA is different from NZ. But there are many similarities in attitudes of industry participants when it comes to corruption. Just look at the hatred,and i do mean hatred so many have expressed against those who investigated INCA. John Curtin from harnesslink being one of the worst. Just look at the other website. Its ridiculous that so many would rather look after their mates and decry an investigation into corruption,rather than criticize dishonesty. Fair enough to have a view of waiting until something is proven,however the personal attacks always get louder when the truth is closer to being revealed.

In my opinion I think racing will not be impacted by the virus as much as many think it will be. I believe the virus will be the fall guy and only a small part of the actual reason for any changes. It will be other pre existing factors that will lead to reductions in stakes. Stakes being paid pre virus were not justified based on a proper business model. People blame the tab,hrnz,rita.... but the reality is racing does not have the turnover or public appeal like it used to. Lots of sports are the same,its just they don't have as many targets to blame like racing does. Stake levels were living on borrowed time anyway based on turmover.. Auckland is an obvious example of the virus not being the real reason for reduced stakes.. Having said that the tab has many outlets in pubs effected by the virus and you do wonder what will happen to many of those businesses and that may impact down the track on the tab. I think the virus is an ideal smoke screen for industry leaders to gain the impetus to implement changes Follow Winston Churchill's advice"Never let a good crisis go to waste". Participants will be more accepting of the pain if it is delivered at the right time.

It was nice to see in the purdon Rasmussen interview that Rasmussen was openly willing to give opinions. There's no doubt the industry needs this stable to continue to be a strong flag bearer. They are always going to be the one the general public identify with the most so lets hope they retain all their owners,despite the likely reduction in stakes. As an aside you can't help but think this virus has highlighted what was already there as far as where racing had been heading. Its just brought the need for change forward. I don't know what ive pushed on my computer but everything seems underlined for some reason.

Maybe,but they won't make progress without making the hard decisions. The worst business decision would be to make no decisions . The truth is they probably know what has to be done,but are having difficulty getting enough courage to put those plans in motion.

By the time they pay the costs of travel to auckland and all the fees associated with training from that stable you would think an all star horse would have to win a race each month just to break even given the reduced stakes at auckland. Why bother going unless it was for one of those stakes races whose stake is made to look attractive only because of the owners pre payments needed to maintain eligibility. The one positive out of the reduced stakes at auckland , which has made them not much more than cambridge,is it should lead to more consistency in performance from a couple of the stables up there that used to race the same horses at both venues. Its very sad that those that led the auckland club made what turned out to be terrible business decisions that basically has ruined the clubs ability to run races that would help retain owner participation at their current venue..They took a punt that some said was high risk at the time,and it failed.Always easy to say after that they should not have,but thats what did happen. Time for them to start planning to sell up all their assets when the property market improves next year and combine with cambridge and relocate both tracks somewhere else. Like harold park did,but don't put in a track like Menangle.It must be no bigger than addington as those mile tracks have no atmosphere whatsoever,,and it must not be inside a galloping track like so many tracks that no one goes to. Actually give the public a viewing platform close to the action in front of the winning post,not past it. Manawatu is not sustainable either really is it. If there is to be a second track it needs to be closer to where the bulk of horses are trained, and could be used only for a summer curcuit for say 3 or 4 months, that is a 1000m to 1200m grass track. And smaller all weather training only facilities inside it. I know some may think that idea is a bit drastic,but its inevitable in my eyes. The sooner it happens the safer harness racings future in the north will be. The longer it takes ,the more gloomy the long term outlook. Do they want a future or not?

Yes i remember that one was the subject of a bit of discussion on this site about the inconsistency of the stipes when dealing with different drivers,also got the attention of the press a month or so later. Punters still waiting for it to make a move. Beaten a half head wasn't it?

All this Cole spca stuff seems to have been around forever. One of the most disturbing things about it all was apparently many employees must have had knowledge of this for some time. My point is how can you expect anyone to have confidence there is much integrity in central district greyhounds while the same people continue to be involved. . Why would anyone bet on them. I don't mind following the auckland/waikato dogs as long as there are no cd dogs in, but i haven't bothered to bet on a dog race anywhere else since this case came to light. Why would anyone?

I might send one there. Just have to convince the wife to take a 3rd job, remortgage the house and convince my columbian friends to find another way of getting product to me now the borders have been closed. That should at least cover 2 or 3 months training bills. If that fails i will borrow big time from a pessimist. At least he won't expect me to pay him back.

It was an example of a club in your province that owns its own land,unlike oamaru. Remember hutt park in years gone by. Mckenzie donated a fortune didn't he to the wellington club to have a grandstand built only to see it closed not long after as they didn't own that land. What prudent business would invest substanial $ in infrastructure on a property they didn't own when it may well be closed in the near future. If oamaru was being used more as a training facility then it may make some sense but its not is it.

Just stating the facts. Why would the industry want to invest money into oamaru given it is hardly used as a training track and any money invested would be into an asset they don't own. Forbury would probably make more sense. As to timaru. Didn't i read an article on stuff where it said because of the racing calender being changed due to the virus there would be 9 or tens less galloping and trotting meetings over the next 4 months there. Don't racing clubs pay a fee to the trusts that run these tracks. I once was told it was something like $10,000 each meeting. Now i don't know how accurate that figure was but how are those that run a track like timaru going to be able to maintain it without that income?

No gallopers at oamaru so how many harness trainers still use the track. Probably single figures. Oamaru is held in a racecourse reserve title is it not? and is leased to oamaru harness. As far as the Oamaru jockey club goes weren't they having money trouble not that long ago and 5 or 6 years ago were propped up by dodgy deal that saw them sell the chute to gallops south who used pokie money to buy it off them. Who did gallops south sell the chute back to on the quiet,and are they still using that to help the local potato grower out? Did the harness club buy that or not as they will never use it?Do they have a caretaker down there nowadays or is it all voluntary.Is that part of the reason the winter meeting of the gallops was called off due to the inconsistent nature of the track after rain? In other words oamaru has just as many issues as anyone else.. Waimate? They went and spent a lot of money and effort rebuilding their facilities after the storm a couple of years ago,but the waimate track is one thats targeted for closing. Wasn't last year the waimate jockey clubs final meeting on their home track. Waimate is also reserve land designated for local community usage so its not able to be sold as its not owned by the racing clubs. Timaru is in a similar position and if and when it closes the racing industry will get nothing out of it. At least they have more trainers use that track,although there numbers may be dwindling. The only clubs with any assets in that area seems to be Kurow. The jockey club in their last annual report stated they had assets of $461,504.00 which includes the track which they own,with $105,000 cash just sitting in the bank. Despite that they seem to be a target for closure. Of all the tracks they may be the one that is in the best position to warrant carrying on.

2k per month is way out of reach for anyone but the rich. $50 per day plus other expenses. I guess the big trainers can charge that as they have the owners with the cash,but if the average trainer charged that then i think they would not last too long as they would have no owners. $200 per moth on vets. Why do people spend so much on them.Can't they get them to perform without a vet? I know its a highly skilled job and hard work,but a good farrier could shoe 6 or 7 a day easy couldn't they. It may not be easy shoeing an inexperienced horse and it can be risky,but with shoes costing about$20 to $30 a set, that means they would be making about $800 per day profit before tax and expenses. . Maybe they can charge that if farriers are in short supply.

The 2k per month. Seems a lot. Apart from the top couple of stables what do you think the average weekly training fees are in the south island at the moment?.

All the doom and gloom may be understandable given the negativity the stay at homes rules bring and the economic impact it has and will continue to have on peoples current mindset. But the reality is racing will continue and with this crisis will come opportunities to put in place strategies needed to progress. This thread indicates what has become apparent for some time now and that is there is lot of blame,name calling and division within the industry. Unfortunately that s lead to the perception that we are not working together in a productive,healthy and cohesive way. Hopefully this crisis can see the realization and motivation of the need to work together. We need all sectors to be unselfish and realistic.Transparency goes hand in hand with that. We do seem to lack someone with the leadership skills and charisma to sell a future vision of unity,confidence ,prosperity and empathy for all the wide ranging interest groups racing has. Lets hope this crisis proves the catalyst for the courage of leadership to make the correct decisions and hopefully in years to come we look back on this period and reflect in a positive way. This crisis can lead to decisions that translate into many future positives.Its not all doom and gloom at all.

To quote one of its directors,peter smith a man who specializes in commercial law. "yes i am a director in cardigan bay holdings which holds the gaming investments for hrnz. Some parent organisations are entitled to own bars that have gaming machines in them,and that provides income for those sports. Hrnz is one of the lucky sports that is structured in this way". Hopefully their hotels don't suffer too badly due to the virus.

I have just been reading the above article,which on the face of it seemed pointless. They had removed the comments made by the president and CEO of the thoroughbred horse racing council of north america,James Gagliano. Well,that didn't surprise me given the NZ arm of harnesslink is a media outlet that always criticises anyone who suggests that performance enhancers are used in the sport and is so far up the backside of its favorite nz stable that they will never see the light of day. But i suggest people google it as it is very interesting and only lasts about 10 minutes. Initially It has a lady discussing the plight of those who rehome and look after retired standardbreds and how their support network has been effected by the virus and how that has impacted on what they do. And it has Mr gagliano discussing the performance enhancing subject. At one point he was asked what he thought of the the group of racing authorities who had come out and said the indictments showed the current system is working. He labelled that statement as a joke,and that those concerned would never have been caught without the input from federeral authorities and information from the the company that investigates illegal drug use in other sports,because they were not sophisticated enough with their testing and correlation of information.. It seems every year from nz harnesslink we have been told its only the uneducated,jealous underachieving losers who suggest the possibility that performance enhancers are being used and that success may not be totally down to superior skills.. People that write that are worse than those they cover up for.

Lord forbes was the first horse in southland to break 4m for 3200m when he went 3.58.6 in the wyndham cup.,only 2 seconds outside the then nz record held by changeover. He was a great wee horse to his connections. You just don't see those owned/trained/driven horses anymore progress to the highest levels. That and the small time trainers with the good horses used to make the nz cup a great race,but now days that type of person and horse doesn't exist. And the constant domination of one stable in the nz cup has made it lose its past appeal to many of the regular harness racing followers,and has led to the realization from the small time trainer that success in that type of race is no longer realistic if they keep training. Its a bit like the melbourne cup which used to have horses with household names run in them,now the melbourne cup has a field with half them having there first start in australasia that no one has heard of.

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As ranga pointed out,i said Mcgrath did not have high TCO2 levels. Seems you have misinterpreted what i said. I'm not anti mcgrath,never have been,just think if he is caught doing something which gives him an advantage outside the rules, he needs to be penalised. You still think i am someone i'm not. I am guessing who you think i may be,but thats not me nor do i know whether what you are insinuating about them is true or not,nor do i really care. I did train some at one point.I started off by working for o'meara for 6 weeks and the only thing i learnt was....to quote another employee"when ....(vet) gives them a pre race drench they grow a leg.. Hes got the best milkshake in nz." So i asked that vet what he gave them pre race and he said como selenium and co forta i think it was. Thought he was just brushing me off but the first time i raced a horse at addington,who had won 2nd up elsewhere for me, i got a local vet to administer the drugs the canterbury vet had said. What happened was the local vet missed the vein,horse raced with a big bulge on its neck and unfortunately was never the same and it eventually became obvious its wind was buggered. That was the last time i had a horse attended by a vet pre race,i never once injected anything into a horses vein,never once tubed a horse,would not know how. So its time for you to move on from the insinuations,whoever you think i am.

Yes,looking at the published tco2 levels for mcgrath runners there is no pattern of elevated levels. That is why i say they put too many resources into pre race tco2 levels and would be more effective reducing the number of tests and using their resources elsewhere. More random pre race observations for example(without notification) and why not do more out of competition testing. Why don't the RIU just contract out that type of work to investigators who could specialize in that area of racing.The people who observed Mcgrath may not be liked by some,but they do appear to have got a result which helped justify their actions. If your doing nothing illegal to gain an advantage, then you would have nothing to worry about,would you. Either you want a level playing field or not. As jeff gural often says,don't just pay lip service,actually do something.

1)who knows but the late scratching of the 2 Mcgrath horses on the night and subsequently the very shortly thereafter transfer of horses to other stables may have something to do with possible media interest. Besides, why shouldn't they write an article? 2)Good questions. Last year i started a thread about the possible wasted resources being put into TCO2 testing. I suggested they needed to direct more resources into other means of testing,liaising with customs,observations,etc. Thats if they were serious,but i don't think they ever have been(until recently). Having said that If you look at the TCO2 readings they publish they do seem to be an indication of who they should be looking at more closely. 3&4)would be interesting to know,but the main point is it's not the investigators fault that they discovered breaches of the rules,it was Mcgraths actions that led to that. 5)revenge for inca failure? No matter how many times you say that doesn't make it true. Its still an ongoing case is it not. One thing that is clear is Mcgrath and his supporters played and continue to play a dumb game and its little surprise the attention they get. As Happy has said,look at the rubbish P4P writes on the other site.His personal attacks are so counter productive to those he is supposed to support. In that respect when it comes to the criticism some were giving jj flash for not fully expressing his views on the other site. We all know that place is a totally one sided echo chamber who simply discourage any opinions opposite and outside the handful driving most threads through banning and censoring comment. If you don't endorse what they have to say then your muzzled. This site allows opinions from both sides. Obviously Mcgrath was targeted.Thats the way it works when personalities are brought into it. Personally i hope that if they have information about pre race tubing or the use of performance enhancers they target those people as well.

As to the answer to number 4. I used to read all the New South Wales judicial reports which related to investigations of a similar nature..It was common practice for those investigating to undertake covert surveillance of licenceholders. I know i posted a couple of times a while back saying NSW authorities would do what it took to try and maintain the rules are enforced,whereas NZ did not seem interested in uncovering similar activity. There is 2 different sides,yet again,to the comments being made here. 1) Those that are unhappy that someone should be doing something outside the rules that gains them an unfair advantage. 2) those who"s sole focus seems to be the methods used to catch McGrath,not what he was doing. Why is that?

I think that came about partly a result of new personnel within the RIU and partly because of revelations gaining traction outside the RIU that had to be addressed.. Its been gradual.. And i don't always agree with some of their actions,but i understand they are trying to enforce the rules and deserve credit for taking that approach Its not just on the investigation side of things. Look at the stipe report side of things. Those who operate in the north island have been round for years and seem half blind sometimes when it comes to some high profile drivers. The younger south island stipes don't seem to miss much in comparison and don't give preferential treatment if you are high profile.. At the end of the day the industry requires punters,and punters need to believe the integrity side of things are being taken care of.

Youv'e got to start somewhere. Turning a blind eye had been the standard modus operandi by previous stipes/ RIU for years. How may times did they come out and warn that they would be testing for... in the future. Why,because they and industry leaders were never interested in catching anyone. Its always had been just hot air. Make no mistake,the previous inaction of the RIU is partly responsible for much of the current cases . Go back a few years and you had those running the show doing everything they could to cover up any wrongdoings,and the stipes openly picking on the small fry participants over nothings while turning a blind eye to blatant corruption. Now the current RIU have actually taken action they should be given credit for their actions. Not rubbished and be attacked personally like so many seem to do.