Wingman

Probably in three minds, want to do this or that but worried about the stipes smashing him if he does this or that

You are falling into the modern trap of commenting before all the facts are out popeye. Apprentice was fined (minor) for using sub standard gear as opposed to poor riding. As usual it is the punter who loses the most.

Yes Yes

Great racing today at Ellerslie and very happy the track coped despite late rain. In the 2yo race I have found a rough bet. I don't think it can win but if I can get $8, (7/1) I am thinking it is worth backing it to run 3rd at over twice the price of the two favourites. The horse is Vega for luck and opens and stays at 20/1, drifts to 26 then 31 but place price is always around the 5 to $6 range. Too late I notice the world tote is rapidly drifting its price in the last minute and it finishes at 66/1 win 15/1 place. Meantime 'our' TAB does its usual jiggery pokey very late in the piece and says its closing price is 80/1 and 12/1 place. IMO the NZ TAB are becoming very cynical with their pricing and making it less attractive to bet. Bottom line is; at the close the place price of Vega for luck with world tote is approx 24% of the win price whilst NZ TAB is 15%. That is a rort and I suspect it will not improve. I enjoyed watching but I am not going to bet into false odds. Another example of why a tote without bookie will always be best for the punter.

Mosinvader

Correct. TLee was very good at highlighting what stood out in the birdcage. Todays commentators and presenters are sales people. R5 at Wanganui is an excellent example. Sweeney and Evans waxed lyrical about how great a winning chance Scelta Di Elena was and how they were surprised it was at $4. They kept pushing that train of thought then congratulated themselves on 'talking' it into fav at $3.30. Ran 3rd, mutter and mumble, move on. My advise is judge with your own eyes and with the mute ON

Which Freda brings us full circle to 'gaming' 'cheating', getting a few extra hits in late, winning and a large fine dished out whilst riders obeying the rules have to ignore the rule to be on the same 'level' ground.

It is definitely becoming a complex subject that did not need to be so difficult. Basically NZTR have reacted to pressure rather then long ago putting in strong measures. They have instead continually tweaked the rules and in doing so have allowed pressure groups, loud minorities, to get small victories. With each amendment to the whip rules the activists have gradually put the muppets at NZTR on the back foot. Now all they have left is capitulation unless they (unlikely) have the stomach to stand up and say 'ENOUGH' we run this industry. The last two hundred metres is a nightmare to regulate which is why I am a firm believer in letting the jockeys do what they want and then no whipping from that point, excluding tapping on the shoulder with the both hands always on the reins. To not have the ability to use the whip between the 800m to 200m will lose massive numbers of punters. A lot of horses need to be wound up through that part of the race. Shane Dye referring to Octagonal said it was highly unlikely he would have won the number of G1 races he did , under todays whip rules.

I will agree there is a 'tapping' going on but if that is 'using' the whip then that is right up there with the cop fining you for going 1km over the speed limit. Further more if his hands never leave the rein there is no way he is whipping in any conventional sense of the word. On a positive note, thank you Curious for putting the video clip which enables those that are interested to form an opinion

YES. My biggest single win bet return was on a horse he rode called Iamishwara. Ten years ago at New Plymouth. $19 tote $18 fixed odds. Settled 3rd last improved across top, loomed to lead 100m, 2 horse struggle from there, won by a 'long' nose and not once at any time in the race did he whip the horse..LEGEND

However if she indeed has not come up as a 4yo she creates great value for another horse. The obvious one is Bourbon Princess $4 2nd fav but based on 3yo form last year there is a longer priced horse that will pay more for a place than either of the two favs are paying for a win.

I did not watch today but very surprised on two counts. One; Matamata is a safe track Two; Riders were all ok with continuing the meeting Conclusion; overreaction by stipes who continue (like the most of the executives in this industry) to be inconsistent/weak with their governance

I am still laughing as I write. What do ya expect when you are 'Doomed'

The Phantom, Eales, then Baker trained I think, freak of a horse with a barrel chest and like his comic character got a a decent beating from time to time but won far more

Probably the more you bet the less they need to entice. A year ago I started to wind up my betting after a winter hibernation and a lady from the now entity called Entain sent me an e-mail with concerning words about the volume and value of my bets. I understood she was doing her job on behest of her wowser bosses so I replied with my most politest 'fuck off' email ever. As in do not sent me this shit again and I did not swear in my reply. This however did not leave me feeling in anyway comfortable leading to me backing right off. Actually did me a favour as last Summer was not a memorable punting period. Moral of the story is I can today until Saturday get 50% of a deposit up to $100 bonus cash/product. This is neither here nor there for me however I am not going to ignore adding a hundred onto my bet at no cost to me. They Ladbrokes/Entain are very good at playing poacher/gamekeeper and in my time in UK I avoided them. Not as easy down here, so if you can play them at there own game please do so.

When the new NZTR CEO is announced you will have your answer. Or looking at it another way by the time we get to the new season in 6 months you will know if there is any real drive and determination for significant change

Just to add to what I posted earlier I am fairly sure Kelly Myers lost her whip well before the 200m on Titicaca in the Remutaka AND STILL WON.

Why did you lock then unlock? Answer because it is like an atheist and a Christian going head to head in a debate. Neither of you are going to win and but at some point you both reluctantly agree on some vague point then start the same shit fight on a different piece of ground. The whips are softer, the rules tougher than they used to be so right there is a concession to the anti whip people but to say there shall be no whip when dealing with animals combined with the competitive element is nonsense. The real issue is the weak administrator's who come up with half baked rules and then quarter enforce. The reality is that most horses that are in contention are obviously so, once into the straight. Why do you need to whip them in the last 200m when they are trying? My opinion is that if a jockey wants the horse to try harder or press 'accelerate' (if they indeed can ) then the time for that is between the 400m and 200m. After that no whip. That also means a lot less bad press because there are no 'whips a crackin' the last 200m.

Residential creep shown in 'creepy' detail by the drone footage suggests this once great track is on the way out. NZTR Venue Plan says 'quote' the potential redevelopment of RACE Trentham, IF IT PROCEEDS, is likely to commence after Wellington Cup week in January 2026 'unquote'

I do not trust their times. Is the starting point at the top of the shute in the wrong place? R2 3yo over 1200 1.06.83. Yeah right! R3 R65 1.07.23 R7 R75 1.07.9

Hindsight is easy. Issue was the distance but the woeful lack of pace played to the horses advantage. I had three of the first four as genuine 1st four chances (along with 5th and one other) but couldn't sort it out so just watched. How many punters got burnt on the topweight. Everytime it got the drifts, back in it came. I think the bookies were playing everyone on him. My prerace interpretation, pun intended, was he could not win.

Can't speak for Mr Fish but not yet😅. I am going to have a lash at a couple at Trentham tomorrow so we shall see. Of course if they lose that will see no change

Enjoy the memories Mr Fish. Ten to 15 years ago the likes of you and I were getting overs on horses that today are unders as the bookies with the help of technology have priced meanly, for good reasons. There was a brief period of relief for the astute punter with 'No Deductions', that has now gone, so we are back to the old school, find the winner and spend less time on looking for 'VALUE'

They need the tote pools to be high enough to make it viable and as they have successfully cannibalised the tote it probably is a Saturday event and even then only on the bigger days. An example would be where they are up to lose 60K on one horse in fixed odds but the tote pool is only 40K. Bottom line is the tote punter is the one most at risk That I do not have an answer to other than; UNLESS it is inhouse arbitrage

I can understand both of your (Curious/TAB For Ever) views. What is not to like about about some top class race days providing outstanding prize money and the highly competitive fields that have been attracted. Then the glad fly moves off to the next light and that most certainly will not be what is scheduled after March. The calendar needs positive attention, many of you have identified areas that need attention yet in the last year it is all about glamour days/races. Everything is still way out of balance. A few Remutaka type races do not address the cost of racing horses and the reality that is; for at least 6 months of the year it is a drab existence. There are seriously large entities holding up racing all over the world and whilst it is difficult to see the Australia's and Hong Kong's of the world disappearing, NZ is not a gambling country and I do think ultimately NZ racing has taken a Pinocchio deal. Seduced by sweets but soon to face the coalface of exploitation. So you are both correct but on different perspectives. Enjoy the next few years.