Freda

Yeah....mine were certainly very useful in that respect! Good kids and a privilege to be instrumental in their development.

Danika has left Christchurch and gone back home to Timaru. Denby has transferred locally and is marking time while details are sorted out.

A psychopathic elephant.

I didn't post that race as an issue, so no point whatsoever calling me out over that. The discussion is whip use generally. And isn't this a site for opinion? Every opinion shows a bias in one way or another. Without that there is no opinion. However, playing the man is not a constructive means with which to make a point.

Thanks, Curious. A look at the last race of the champion Equinox might be edifying to some here.

Can you put those up, C?

I think we might have had worse grp 1's here...!

That comment is beneath even you. I could make the same observation about you. Ryan Moore, Tom Marquand, Hollie Doyle et al ride superbly, and effectively, following just those directives, clearly you have no idea.

I still think, allow a limited number of strikes - say 5, or 7, for the whole race and leave it up to the rider to decide when best to use. Then suspend if he/ she can't count.

Interesting topic, opposite opinions, but each as merit IMO. The compressed scale we deal with now, both here and in Aus, makes real handicapping a thing of the past. Curious will have stats, no doubt, but it is plain that now, topweights win frequently, far more often than they should under an accurate handicapping regime. In those former days weight definitely played a big part - affecting some more than others, obviously - but now, the differential is so slight as to be of very little significance to most. IMO. In the same era as Zeditave - quoted by J.B - I had two smallish geldings in work. One won four in his first racing season, and looked to be more than useful. The other won a couple over the next couple of years, but struggled in the old C 3 classification under top weights. In frustration I tossed him into Open class, in on the minimum and he immediately found form. He placed in the Hazlett Stakes - then 1400m - and then ran 3rd in the 2000m Easter Classic, and won the 2400m Great Autumn. He could cope with the classier animals just fine, but clearly, struggled with weight. The other bloke, small as he was, ran successfully in highweights, handled the impost despite his small frame, but couldn't cop the step up in class.

Spot on. I agree with Thommo on many things, but not this. I heard the speech Peters made, and didn't for one minute think he was denigrating survivors of the holocaust, or their descendants - or making light of the awful scenario. The racial prioritisation was Winston's point, and I remain astounded that so many people just don't 'get' what he was meaning. And I'm not a Winston acolyte either, he's a slippery, self-motivated old codger and is, with his speech sounding garbled and at times slurred, is either pissed or has Biden syndrome. The Maori DNA thing was a shocker. There can be no place for that in our country. We saw ' denouncements' over vaccination during Covid - a friend of mine actually said - ' those who are unvaccinated should be locked up ' and unvaxed person who called in to my stable got 'potted' to the CEO. Nazi stuff again. Oh, so easy to turn a comfortable and placid society into one of rabid bigots.

Locally, the T.A certainly did attempt to get grass trials put on. At the recent Roadshow, an attendee spoke very passionately about the need for horses - especially young horses - to have grass surfaces to learn their craft on. The request was made for management to look into maybe Rangiora and/or Motukarara - 20/30 mins up the road - both of which have been mothballed for racing/trialing purposes, although still operating as viable harness racing venues. An email received by trainers as a result contained no mention of either of the above two tracks. Timaru and Ashburton were the only ones available, Timaru has undertaken renovation so is NOT usable, and if Ashburton was to be used permission would need to be obtained to run outside cones. That wasn't forthcoming.

I would think he might have had enough of corporate b/s..

I'm a bit behind things wrt Te Aroha...but hadn't it recently had some remedial work?

How confident indeed. No one wants to see races put off or horses/riders injured, so there is no suggestion that track managers and their staff WANT a cock-up. But it seems that all are singing from the same song-sheet, and the tune just doesn't work.

Probably because there is NO other option.

Puntura got a bigger one. But good on them for having a go.

Many top trainers have been fooled by a 'morning glory' or let down badly by a horse they rated....equally, some have been surprised to see the ugly duckling blossom into a superior performer. Opinion and assessment are subjective - and like arseholes, we all have one. If the well-heeled gentleman took yours at face value without bothering to involve me in his decision, it's just as well we never met.

Sticks and stones, plenty more in life to be concerned about, than comments from a former jockey. I've observed many jockeys over the years, good, bad, all sorts. Of all, one of the best we've ever seen, CWJ, stands out for not just his consummate skill but his empathy for his mounts and his genuine love for the animal...the animal that, over millennia, has pulled our carts, ploughed our fields, died in the battlefield, carefully carried children and the disabled, and run its guts out for no good reason other than we ask it of them. Some others, also very good jockeys, show their class as humans by smashing their mounts over the head and/or ripping the bit through their teeth when annoyed or having difficulties. So a critique, however minor from a 'jockey' who thinks horses cheat is nothing to be bothered about.

There was a great doco I watched, back in the day, called 'the year of Sir Ivor'. What a horse. Didn't seem to have a great presence later as a stallion in the northern hemisphere but created a dynasty down here, through Sir Tristram, Zabeel, and now Savabeel.

The scribe who dubbed blinkers as 'the badge of the cheat' did many wonderful horses a grave disservice....and those who think the same way display a woeful ignorance about a horse's survival mechanisms and the nature of its vision.

I'm a bit of a bob-each-way here. I agree with S.A that a correctly used whip is an aid, or encouragement, not a punishment. I disagree strongly with Billy's comment about 'most horses are cheats'. I think the majority are brave and willing, those few that aren't, often have an experience with humans to reflect upon, or are sick, tired, or sore. As far as social licence goes, the fact that so many either can't use the blasted thing properly, or break such feeble rules that we have, may well mean that the whip is banned altogether at some stage. I wouldn't lose any sleep if it was, but it shouldn't need to be if riders use it appropriately. The sight of J. Mac throwing the kitchen sink at his mount in the Cox Plate was not pretty.

He was advised by those whom he thought would know.

Sadly, yes, most 'staying' races have become very pedestrian affairs. Structure and programming have to be a part of this; not the sole reason, there are several factors, but it seems that, as you say, very few relish the time and money that must be spent to develop such horses.

Yes. They have the nous to understand how important community and even tourist involvement is in the country areas.