Invercargill Cup.

[mikeynz]

4 nominations for $110000, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, not just Auckland struggling for numbers in big races.

[Doomed]

It was always a stupid idea, although I see they have found 5 extra horses who don't actually met race conditions.

Probably even more surprising is abandoning the 2yo race. I thought the whole idea of changing the racing season as so there would be truck loads of 2yos turning out in Dec.

[mikeynz]

Any race in Southland that's rating 55 or more is struggling these days, the yo yo that the rating system is the main culprit.

[Brodie]

Looks like it is Self Assured’s race to lose!

Not sure how the industry can afford to run the race as it will be costing the industry hugely!

There are many meetings now that are surely running at a financial loss so not sure what is going to happen to the future stakes money to racing?

It must be the Sports Betting that is making money for the TAB, and they want to stop punters from wagering on racing??

[Doomed]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

Looks like it is Self Assured’s race to lose!

Not sure how the industry can afford to run the race as it will be costing the industry hugely!

There are many meetings now that are surely running at a financial loss so not sure what is going to happen to the future stakes money to racing?

It must be the Sports Betting that is making money for the TAB, and they want to stop punters from wagering on racing??

I do find myself wondering how they can justify some of the stakes on offer. Most can hardly be self funding.

I also wonder whether the unique harness approach whereby maidens race for higher stakes than winners of several races really does send out the right signal to participants.

[Gammalite]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

Looks like it is Self Assured’s race to lose!

Maybe the BeachBall has his measure Brodster ? 

'Bounced him' last time , and was a great placing in the NZ Cup too .. so is getting the standing start thing going a little better these days. The 10m start on Marks FFA champ might help too.  

[the galah]

Looks like they have the best betting fields they have had all year. 

Like most places,draws are important as its such a front runners track.No point backing anything drawn wider if they go back at the start.Those drawn the second line chances hinge on whether the horse they follow out on the front line goes forward or not. If not they may as well go home. 

The worst thing about the racing down there is all the mobiles are always 2200 or 1700m races.They don't seem to run 2700m mobiles anymore and that is why luck with the draws is more of a factor.

Tact macleod, a 2 win, 5 start horse by sweet lou seems a strange entry to run over 3200m against beach ball and self assured.  Doesn't matter how well he may well run,there seems as much chance of downside to upside in running. Also with some of the summer country cups races coming up down there,it seems others who have put in late entries run the risk of over extending their horses before they get to compete in races that would suit better.

Still all that will make for interesting viewing on friday afternoon/evening.

Weather wise they seem to be forecasting warm days there,except on raceday where they currently forecast only 16..Lets hope the forecast is wrong and they get a fine/warm day as we know the weather is always the biggest factor in crowd size. 

[Michael]

20 hours ago, Doomed said:

It was always a stupid idea, although I see they have found 5 extra horses who don't actually met race conditions.

Probably even more surprising is abandoning the 2yo race. I thought the whole idea of changing the racing season as so there would be truck loads of 2yos turning out in Dec.

I posted a year ago that a $100k Invercargill Cup clashing with Auckland's Cup races was a stupid idea

It hasn't got any smarter

[mikeynz]

2 hours ago, Michael said:

I posted a year ago that a $100k Invercargill Cup clashing with Auckland's Cup races was a stupid idea

It hasn't got any smarter

Which cup races are you referring too ?

[Michael]

The Franklin Cup where Akuta is heading mikeynz

Keep up 

[mikeynz]

45 minutes ago, Michael said:

The Franklin Cup where Akuta is heading mikeynz

Keep up 

And the other races ? There are free for all races at Omakau and also Nelson, in early January the Franklin Cup is a rating 60 +, I think, might just have half a dozen if they are lucky, Akuta might just get one start, guess it will pay the trip and back.

[mikeynz]

The Franklin Cup is the only race for higher rated  60+ horses in the North it seems for weeks, be better to boost a race or two in the South to follow on from Ascot Park if they race at all, the Northern region is stuffed.

No problem having the idea of having a big race in Southland, simple reality is that it got no numbers either, but still better than nothing, or is it ?

Edited December 19, 2023 by mikeynz

[Michael]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

And the other races ? There are free for all races at Omakau and also Nelson, in early January the Franklin Cup is a rating 60 +, I think, might just have half a dozen if they are lucky, Akuta might just get one start, guess it will pay the trip and back.

Are you joking or serious?

You believe that Nelson has a FFA race that Self Assured will go to?

The point is NZ does not have enough Open class horses to split them from 1 end of the country to the other

The other fields at Invercargill are terrific, but do you think that the meeting will generate a "Profit" for the industry after funding a $100,000 benefit?

Not on your nellie

 

 

[mikeynz]

19 minutes ago, Michael said:

Are you joking or serious?

You believe that Nelson has a FFA race that Self Assured will go to?

The point is NZ does not have enough Open class horses to split them from 1 end of the country to the other

The other fields at Invercargill are terrific, but do you think that the meeting will generate a "Profit" for the industry after funding a $100,000 benefit?

Not on your nellie

 

 

Self Assured don't have to go to Nelson , there is a 20000 free for all on day two, but if it aint interested then he can stay at home, where else can he go ?

[Brodie]

3 hours ago, Michael said:

Are you joking or serious?

You believe that Nelson has a FFA race that Self Assured will go to?

The point is NZ does not have enough Open class horses to split them from 1 end of the country to the other

The other fields at Invercargill are terrific, but do you think that the meeting will generate a "Profit" for the industry after funding a $100,000 benefit?

Not on your nellie

 

 

Reality is that there is a growing no. Of meetings that are losing money!

Ludicrous to be running the Invercargill Cup for $100k who is making these decisions nowadays?

The Race By Grins is just a benefit for the “BIG BOYS” a totally overrated exercise that really does very little to attract extra interest in harness racing and is another loss making venture!

There needs to be another Brain Storming” meeting in the New Year to get things back on track!

[Michael]

23 hours ago, mikeynz said:

 

mikeynz, ask yourself

Why does NZ have 1 NRL team?

Why does NZ have 1 team in the A-League?

NZ does not have sufficient open class horses to run Open races at the top of the North Island and the bottom of the South Island at roughly the same time

As for your question then he can stay at home, where else can he go ? you've answered it yourself

You can't be serious thinking that a horse having it's 5th start plus the 3 others that have been thrown in can justify wasting $100,000 of Industry money

I'd just about wager that the GBR from the whole meeting doesn't cover the Open class stakes

[Michael]

20 hours ago, Brodie said:

Reality is that there is a growing no. Of meetings that are losing money!

Ludicrous to be running the Invercargill Cup for $100k who is making these decisions nowadays?

There needs to be another Brain Storming” meeting in the New Year to get things back on track!

1. Correct

2. I think her name is Catherine MacDonald

3. Some brainstorming meetings gave rise to the current issues

[mikeynz]

1 hour ago, Michael said:

mikeynz, ask yourself

Why does NZ have 1 NRL team?

Why does NZ have 1 team in the A-League?

NZ does not have sufficient open class horses to run Open races at the top of the North Island and the bottom of the South Island at roughly the same time

As for your question then he can stay at home, where else can he go ? you've answered it yourself

You can't be serious thinking that a horse having it's 5th start plus the 3 others that have been thrown in can justify wasting $100,000 of Industry money

I'd just about wager that the GBR from the whole meeting doesn't cover the Open class stakes

 

1 hour ago, Michael said:

mikeynz, ask yourself

Why does NZ have 1 NRL team?

Why does NZ have 1 team in the A-League?

NZ does not have sufficient open class horses to run Open races at the top of the North Island and the bottom of the South Island at roughly the same time

As for your question then he can stay at home, where else can he go ? you've answered it yourself

You can't be serious thinking that a horse having it's 5th start plus the 3 others that have been thrown in can justify wasting $100,000 of Industry money

I'd just about wager that the GBR from the whole meeting doesn't cover the Open class stakes

The reality remains that the open class races if any need to be where the majority of the horses are and that is in the South,  maybe the Invercargill stake might be over inflated but with Omakau and Nelson running free for all as they are now races for all horses this is where the focus should be, bearing in mind both Omakau and Nelson have big turnovers so it's putting the money where it's being earned, throw in Westport boxing day too, why should they be subsidizing Auckland ?

We will watch with interest to see how the Northern races over the next week or two pans out.

The Franklin Cup is  rating 60 plus, will they be able to scratch a field of nine as Invercargill, I'd say they will be struggling.

Edited December 20, 2023 by mikeynz

[Michael]

It's pointless debating with you mikeynz

If you think that Nelson's programme being called a FFA is aimed at Cup horses then it's a waste of time

Invercargill may have a field of 9 but anyone with half a brain realises that it's not an Open Class race in anything but name only, and it's a wasted of the Industry's $100,000

I also note you can't rely to the question posed, or statement made, about GBR and the return to the Industry. You bag ATC by asking why they should be subsidised yet you are happy to subsidise Invercargill's raceday which will need sybsidising because of the Cup stake which is out of all proportion to the field participants . bit parochial?

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Michael said:

You bag ATC by asking why they should be subsidised yet you are happy to subsidise Invercargill's raceday which will need sybsidising because of the Cup stake which is out of all proportion to the field participants .

Isn't the subsidisation related to the potential return from betting on the race rather than the class of horse?

[Michael]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Isn't the subsidisation related to the potential return from betting on the race rather than the class of horse?

Yes it is, and the potential return from the betting on the race won't cover the stake

In fact, the return from the whole day won't cover the 2 Open Class stakes

You are posting just to be spurious (translation, a tosser)

The stake and the participants are relative

You might pay $49.99 to watch Tyson Fury and Usyk, you're unlikely to pay it to watch Butterbean and Shane Cameron. 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

14 hours ago, Michael said:

You are posting just to be spurious (translation, a tosser)

Back to your normal obnoxious self.

14 hours ago, Michael said:

The stake and the participants are relative

You might pay $49.99 to watch Tyson Fury and Usyk, you're unlikely to pay it to watch Butterbean and Shane Cameron. 

 

Your analogy is spurious and flawed.

I might not pay the same on PPV to watch those two fights however I might bet the same amount or more on one if the value was better.

An even quality field will likely return more betting yield than a field of mugs with a standout hot favourite.  The former therefore has a better chance of less stakes subsidisation.

Comprendez?

 

[Gammalite]

Can't see why a regional track  Shouldn't have great stake money for it's Feature Cup race of the year?. Good on ya Invercargill !!!   it's only Once a Year.

am sure the Invercargill locals would love to see  a former Nz Cup winner in Self Assured . should be handicapped more though as his rating is twice that of some off the front . maybe 40m ?? to give them all a little hope.

Regional Cups in Australia are worth a fair bit . example : Ballarat Cup had many  visitors from Nz recent years . like lets have a look at winners Smolda , then Smolda , then Heaven Rocks, then The Fixer, then A Gs White Socks , then .....  also just years  earlier won by Mah Sish, Stunin Cullen, Highview Tommy for Nz.  Regional Cups are GREAT for the second Tier runners to have a chance of a big Cup Win and earn a quid. 🏆👍💰  fantastic . 

Put more money on for Cups !! 🏆.. it's a good thing . mediocre gallopers race for 100k all the time .. why shouldn't some good Pacers get a shot at it ?

 

[mikeynz]

I think the biggest problem with only four nominations was through shortsighted programming, a rating 70+, the time honored Franklin Cup on New Years eve is programmed a rating 60+ and after doing a little research it seems they too might get 3  place dividends, Invercargill should have been a rating 60 + as it kind of is now.

I do believe Invercargill should have its day in the sun, today's the day, the fields are generally good, it don't hide the fact that a lot of the Southern racedays have become below average affairs just as Auckland has become.

Just a side issue it seems Gore ain't racing on Grass on Wednesday, yet grass meetings seem to attract better turnovers, it is true there are gallops on Sunday but one wonders when the next meeting for Gore in February if it's grass or AW.

[Gammalite]

On 12/18/2023 at 2:38 PM, Brodie said:

Looks like it is Self Assured’s race to lose!

And lose he did . Thought the 'Beach Ball 'would be too strong today  (finished 3rd) , but the old Boy 'Self Assured' had him well covered .

But along came American Me and Sarah O'Reilly with one of the most pro-active drives ever seen in a Nz feature against Marky Boy . and she beat him by a nose !!! wow . that was a great drive !! 🏆💰 congrats to Sarah on that amazing win and the connections of American Me .