KNIGHT Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 55 minutes ago, Nowornever said: The writer looks desperate to write about it but suppression orders in place. Wins the award for the worst article ever written in my opinion. The more you read it the more ridiculous it is. Desperate to write about a hugely significant decision and hot topic? Yes. The official JCA report refers to the defendants as Mr X and Mr Y and, as you point out, suppression orders are in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 55 minutes ago, Nowornever said: The writer looks desperate to write about it but suppression orders in place. Wins the award for the worst article ever written in my opinion. The more you read it the more ridiculous it is. What are you talking about? Virtually all of it is just quoting the JCA decision. And it's perfectly clear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, Basil said: What are you talking about? Virtually all of it is just quoting the JCA decision. And it's perfectly clear. Then the JCA report is completely laughable as well. May as well be talking about two ghosts. Seems ridiculous to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Then the JCA report is completely laughable as well. May as well be talking about two ghosts. Seems ridiculous to me. the report is about ghost x and ghost y testing the riu's knee jerk reaction all other excluded ghosts will be back in business as a result of this garrick and the jca have respected the suppression orders in place as one would hope a pro would 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't an RIU investigation start the ball rolling? The Police came along later. Therefore wouldn't one expect the RIU to have sufficient information or evidence to prove to the JCA that a continued exclusion was warranted? Afterall isn't the burden of proof lower in the JCA than in the High Court? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't an RIU investigation start the ball rolling? The Police came along later. they would have started it but as it came under match mixing it was always going to end up with police it might have went to the police just before the eavesdroppng commenced when the martin van beynen article surfaced the opinion of one of the since arrested was its not like they (riu at that stage) can listen into phone conversations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rangatira said: they would have started it but as it came under match mixing it was always going to end up with police it might have went to the police just before the eavesdroppng commenced when the martin van beynen article surfaced the opinion of one of the since arrested was its not like they (riu at that stage) can listen into phone conversations So what the JCA is saying is the RIU's evidence wasn't sufficient to exclude the Drivers from driving. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So what the JCA is saying is the RIU's evidence wasn't sufficient to exclude the Drivers from driving. in a nut shell may be more detailed comment when the full decision is released but it might be suppressed to some extent i dont think the hearing was in public the other day those excluded would not have had full disclosure at the time the riu knee jerked into action so it seems most unlikely the riu would have had it jca may have heard of the term presumption of innocence and require a good deal more than the fact a person has been charged of a crime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 (edited) An Appeal Court Judge sitting on the JCA ruled the evidence produced and the Police non disclosure meant there was a lack of evidence for the suspensions to continue as disproportionate penalty v’s the charges based on the evidence . RIU overzealous prempted decision - the court judge questioned whether they were heavy handed at the bail hearing but could no change it - adds to whether the whole saga has balance or foundation. All have to wait for the justice system now but at least this in justice band has been removed . Edited October 26, 2018 by LongOwner 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, LongOwner said: RIU overzealous prempted decision - the court judge questioned whether they were heavy handed at the bail hearing but could no change it - adds to whether the whole saga has balance or foundation. will this be incorporated into the next riu logo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 the race fixing was always a load of crap heard the other day one race they looked into mr x or y was not driving in the race and was sitting in the stand great to see them back driving as lack of top drivers around 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 12 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: the race fixing was always a load of crap heard the other day one race they looked into mr x or y was not driving in the race and was sitting in the stand great to see them back driving as lack of top drivers around I can now bet with confidence 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 3 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: the race fixing was always a load of crap heard the other day one race they looked into mr x or y was not driving in the race and was sitting in the stand great to see them back driving as lack of top drivers around If sitting in the stand makes a difference why have they charged the punters and raceday secretary and trainers. The RIU and police need to have your number on speed dial to avoid future unnecessary investigations. So to have a couple of the top drivers out means there is a lack of top drivers around. I don't agree. Just look at ricky may who is getting more drives.. Driving at his brilliant best recently . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 52 minutes ago, the galah said: If sitting in the stand makes a difference why have they charged the punters and raceday secretary and trainers. The RIU and police need to have your number on speed dial to avoid future unnecessary investigations. So to have a couple of the top drivers out means there is a lack of top drivers around. I don't agree. Just look at ricky may who is getting more drives.. Driving at his brilliant best recently . so your saying it was ok to have some one back driving two weeks ago that takes disco lollies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 7 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: the race fixing was always a load of crap heard the other day one race they looked into mr x or y was not driving in the race and was sitting in the stand great to see them back driving as lack of top drivers around Perhaps he just organised the fix in that race! Or tried to! must have some good recorded evidence for him to be charged! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: so your saying it was ok to have some one back driving two weeks ago that takes disco lollies Well I hope your mate is made to test clean then before he drives. from his own admission that he was taking the so called disco lollies. i know one thing I will no longer bet on the races that these alleged race fixers are driving in. The word integrity keeps coming to mind here! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzenza365 Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Just got a text from a good mate of Blair Orange which says Blair is back. I would assume that John Dunn will be in the same boat. I would like to know how the JCA believe that the RIU WERE WRONG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 4 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: so your saying it was ok to have some one back driving two weeks ago that takes disco lollies That's not the same as race fixing in my view. However I do think all those who have been charged with drug offences have exposed an underbelly that exists in nz harness racing. The taking of illegal drugs is not acceptable behavior and deterrent sentences need to be imposed when these charges are dealt with by racing authorities. The surprising thing about the drug use was that it was so widespread and how ignorant those involved were. Did none of them ever stop to think of the possible consequences? The obvious answer is they thought they would always get away with such behavior and some may have thought they were untouchable. Welcome to the real world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, muzenza365 said: Just got a text from a good mate of Blair Orange which says Blair is back. I would assume that John Dunn will be in the same boat. I would like to know how the JCA believe that the RIU WERE WRONG. The jca don't say the riu are wrong,they simply have ruled based on the impact on those charged. The RIU ruled based on the impact on the sport as a whole. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 11 hours ago, muzenza365 said: I would like to know how the JCA believe that the RIU WERE WRONG. riu went off before nominations is it okay for them to presume guilt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 So whats the general census here, i have been told that x & y appear to be in the poo when it all comes out in wash. Do others see it differently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turny Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, Newmarket said: So whats the general census here, i have been told that x & y appear to be in the poo when it all comes out in wash. Do others see it differently? I think there are serious issues to be faced but would love to think it is all untrue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 45 minutes ago, Newmarket said: So whats the general census here, i have been told that x & y appear to be in the poo when it all comes out in wash. Do others see it differently? i have only heard bits and pieces so can't say for sure 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, Rangatira said: i have only heard bits and pieces so can't say for sure I know a Mr Z who happened to be in the court room the first day and he said in his opinion he thought even the judge thought some of the evidence was a bit flimsy the way he was talking. Sure where there is smoke there is fire but I am going out on a limb and predicting some of these guys don't even get to trial once the police show what they have in the way of evidence. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Nowornever said: I know a Mr Z who happened to be in the court room the first day and he said in his opinion he thought even the judge thought some of the evidence was a bit flimsy the way he was talking. Sure where there is smoke there is fire but I am going out on a limb and predicting some of these guys don't even get to trial once the police show what they have in the way of evidence. I hope that is true, maybe some wont go to trial. But it seems a couple might not be so lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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