Chief Stipe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, the galah said: Have you ever thought hrnz could even be pro active in issuing a press statement,expressing their concerns, Why? HRNZ have no jurisdiction over what happens in Tasmania. Why associate HRNZ with their issues? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 47 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why? HRNZ have no jurisdiction over what happens in Tasmania. Why associate HRNZ with their issues? New Zealand horses often competes in Australia chief. the CEO has South Coast Arden competing here all year round now for example... Surely they need to know the Rules of Australian racing and have some input/comment on it at HRNZ ???? and if the rules are being compromised by anyone ( seems by the countries leading Trainer no less) What is happening in Tasmania should be of HUGE interest.? It's very close to home ? Auckland to Hobart 2422 km , closer than Brissy at 2500km lol. so take some action Chief. Tell them you (repping for nz harness reputation) are Not Happy with it. Who wants this stuff happening on your back door-step ? Speak up and show disapproval . Politicians do that with each other all the time. we want 'Horse Welfare' and stable conditions ...and fair un-tainted racing to be a Priority. Hopefully racing New Zealand spoke out against Darren Weir? and ALL the jiggers were thrown away so that sort of thing No Chance of happening again in Nz and Australia ? the administrators really need to take a stand against some things !!!🏇 fair play and happy healthy horses is what we need .... in both countries. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: New Zealand horses often competes in Australia chief. the CEO has South Coast Arden competing here all year round now for example... Surely they need to know the Rules of Australian racing and have some input/comment on it at HRNZ ???? and if the rules are being compromised by anyone ( seems by the countries leading Trainer no less) What is happening in Tasmania should be of HUGE interest.? It's very close to home ? Auckland to Hobart 2422 km , closer than Brissy at 2500km lol. so take some action Chief. Tell them you (repping for nz harness reputation) are Not Happy with it. Who wants this stuff happening on your back door-step ? Speak up and show disapproval . Politicians do that with each other all the time. we want 'Horse Welfare' and stable conditions ...and fair un-tainted racing to be a Priority. Hopefully racing New Zealand spoke out against Darren Weir? and ALL the jiggers were thrown away so that sort of thing No Chance of happening again in Nz and Australia ? the administrators really need to take a stand against some things !!!🏇 fair play and happy healthy horses is what we need .... in both countries. Really I don't get what point you and @the galah are trying to make. Whatever happened to the principle of minding your OWN business and managing what YOU can control? If HRNZ did more of that then we'd be better off. Going anywhere near the Yole business draws negative attention to NZ racing when the general public couldn't give a rats arse about Tasmanian Harness racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 51 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Whatever happened to the principle of minding your OWN business and managing what YOU can control? If HRNZ did more of that then we'd be better off. Going anywhere near the Yole business draws negative attention to NZ racing when the general public couldn't give a rats arse about Tasmanian Harness racing. Everyone was told to hush up about the leading galloper trainer too . Darren Weir . It was his own business. Why don't we use your idea and say 'Mind your own Business "?? Because we care About the horses Chief ( and in Yole's case the poor staff as well) they're involved in the industry we All love (or most of us) and we want to see Horses treated well and races conducted Fairly. I don't give a rat's arse about Tasmanian harness racing either , even though am from there . ( here's a photo of my granddad winning at Elwick (a fair while back lol 😂) General public don't give a rats arse about NZ harness either Chief. But ALL the participants do . And the Galah and I gave about 10 reasons why HRNZ should give an arse about it (the tasmanian situation) . Not the least reason being as Galah said A LOT of the horses come from NZ . we care what happens to them. even though as you say None of us Control it . But HRA and HRNZ should . (try and control it ?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 With respect, HRNZ arent going to do anything about harness racing in Tasmania. Not sure how the state of racing in Tasmania has been allowed to get to the state it is currently is? From the photos of the training establishment of Ben Yole, it shouldve been stopped before now, as those dust paddocks are diabolical. Without Yole training horses in Tasmania, it is hard to see how they can run financially viable meetings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 hours ago, Gammalite said: Everyone was told to hush up about the leading galloper trainer too . Darren Weir . It was his own business. Why don't we use your idea and say 'Mind your own Business "?? What did NZTR need to say about Darren Weir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: What did NZTR need to say about Darren Weir? Actually the Darren Weir case has similarities to Yole. Both routinely resorted to linking fear/pain ,to the use of the whip,so it would assist them achieving success.They routinely abused their horses. The fact that weir is still in the news and has upcoming court cases next month will forever taint his name and the racing industry.That great film about michelle payne will also be linked to the trainer who electric shocked his melbourne cup runner. And the case to me also illustrates that many owners are happy to overlook such animal abuse,if it enables them to get better results. Just like with Yole. The owners of the horse the weir stable abused with a jigger a few says before it ran in the melbourne cup said they are happy to keep supporting him even now when they are aware of the video of what he did to their horse,that will be used at next months court case. Lets face it,if he was not successful,they would the first to drop him. Its all about the money for many owners.thats just the way it is. And lets be honest. If people resort to that type of thing ,then yopu have to question what other lengths they will go to ,to win. The sooner people like that get life bans the better. Edited February 5 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: What did NZTR need to say about Darren Weir? 'Treat your horses appropriately with respect and Compassion' would be a great start. The owner angle that the Galah just mentioned should be a Priority. it's already snowballing. Ben Yole has Bain Bloodstock and Summit Bloodstock as their Tasmanian Trainer Chief . They syndicate hundreds of horses per year to 'Penny Share folk ' like the Wolf of Wall St would, and place them All round the country trying to collect any prizemoney they can . Summit Bloodstock owning huge chunk of The runners in Tamworth these days as they continually swoop on 'Cheap ' horses to gather the stakes. They own well over half of YOLE's runners. The owners have NO SAY where these horses race ( a REAL downfall on being in a syndicate instead of really racing a horse yourself) so ALL the Slow ones end up with YOLE and then at the greys as tucker. Summit Bloodstock now have spread to NZ and using Steven Reid (north) and Matty Williamson (South) . So a lot of small time folk in NZ are seeing their 'Pride and Joy' ultimately fail locally and make it to the Big time of Tasmania at YOLE's ? . NZer's are involved . so HRNZ should say something . have some balls and recommend some NZ Bloodstock groups or something better. Do this for the horses sake, the view of NZ owners and even Just for the sake of the reputation of the Sport .. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 8 hours ago, the galah said: Both routinely resorted to linking fear/pain ,to the use of the whip,so it would assist them achieving success.They routinely abused their horses. Allegedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 8 hours ago, the galah said: The fact that weir is still in the news and has upcoming court cases next month will forever taint his name and the racing industry.That great film about michelle payne will also be linked to the trainer who electric shocked his melbourne cup runner. And the case to me also illustrates that many owners are happy to overlook such animal abuse,if it enables them to get better results. Just like with Yole. The owners of the horse the weir stable abused with a jigger a few says before it ran in the melbourne cup said they are happy to keep supporting him even now when they are aware of the video of what he did to their horse,that will be used at next months court case. But why was there a happy ending in the Prince of Penzance film? If Weir hadnt used a training technique to get a result that wasn't acceptable (allegedly) would there have been a film? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 6 hours ago, Gammalite said: Treat your horses appropriately with respect and Compassion' would be a great start. But if you open that can of worms where do you stop? Is a twitch cruel when you are trying to treat a horse? Is a lugging bit cruel? Are blinding a horse with blinkers cruel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Allegedly. well Weir was quilty and penalised . 4 years served. I don't mind if he comes back training personally. He served his time. Unlikely to do it again. Plenty of trainers in the past have been re-licensed after serving their time. YOLE is allegedly at this stage ... but warned off in the meanwhile lol 😎. 16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But if you open that can of worms where do you stop? Is a twitch cruel when you are trying to treat a horse? Is a lugging bit cruel? Are blinding a horse with blinkers cruel? To answer your questions in my opinion . a/ the worms need to see horses treated with a bit of care and compassion . racing and trotting. the good news is ...most Are . you have to pull up the likes of Yole and the Kaikoura bloke who neglected his a bit at one stage , and make sure they do the right thing (by the horse, their owners and the racing game in general. B/ c/ and D/ no no and No .... all just bits of equipment like a girth or a crupper or anything else that are part and parcel of racing horses. I don't even buy into the whip arguement . horses are horses . we're trying to race them to finish first . and in a SAFE manner so that rivals and themselves aren't in any peril from idiots . which you don't see much with the great horsemen and horsewomen we are blessed with in New Zealand and Australia. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Allegedly. They have the video don't they for Weir.Hard to dispute that. He got 4 years for being in possession of the jiggers in 2019. Its because of the video evidence,he has been hit with fresh charges relating to the use of the jiggers. If convicted he would be banned for life from working with horses. Given they have the video,you would think proving the charges would be pretty straight forward. Thats what has been reported. The australian mainstream media will no doubt widely report the case. Maybe even get to play the video for the public to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Never @the galah or @Gammalite have convinced me that NZTR or HRNZ have an obligation or even a right to pontificate from a perceived higher moral ground about things going on in another country let alone another jurisdiction. Both have enough to get right in their own jurisdictions and many would argue that they barely get a pass mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Never @the galah or @Gammalite have convinced me that NZTR or HRNZ have an obligation or even a right to pontificate from a perceived higher moral ground about things going on in another country let alone another jurisdiction. Both have enough to get right in their own jurisdictions and many would argue that they barely get a pass mark. I agree to a point Chief.....but We have animal welfare laws in NZ that have evolved over the years. We can't stop what's been unfolding in Tasmania but how big a hypocrite are we pretending to give a shit about animal / horse welfare / abuse / cruelty etc if we sell NZ horses to Tasmanian owners ./ trainers knowing what's unfolding there? Surely the recent findings are enough for NZ to say our horses deserve better and we can't condone what's been going on there for years by creating a ban?. I'm sure Tasmanian buyers will get around that by Mainland buyers sourcing their horses for them. Bottom line a respectful message is sent. We are not against Tasmania harness racing. We are against sending our horses to end up with people that have a record of abuse / cruelty. Horses can't speak for themselves. It's fair, reasonable and right that we speak for them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 19 minutes ago, Walt said: Surely the recent findings are enough for NZ to say our horses deserve better and we can't condone what's been going on there for years by creating a ban?. I'm sure Tasmanian buyers will get around that by Mainland buyers sourcing their horses for them. What you are suggesting that HRNZ can dictate who breeders or owners can sell their horses to? Aren't they struggling enough? It's the type of policy @holy ravioli would like from an idealogical perspective. Where do you draw the line? The cradle to the grave policy is already imposing excessive costs on the industry. The reality is some horses will end up as dog tucker - that's the reality of farming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What you are suggesting that HRNZ can dictate who breeders or owners can sell their horses to? Aren't they struggling enough? It's the type of policy @holy ravioli would like from an idealogical perspective. Where do you draw the line? The cradle to the grave policy is already imposing excessive costs on the industry. The reality is some horses will end up as dog tucker - that's the reality of farming. I'm pleased you're not comparing my logic to that of H.R. I went to a yearling sale in Auckland some years ago. I learned that 22 yearlings were sent straight to the slaughter house immediately after the sale. Their crime? They didn't meet their reserve. I spoke to the person who signed this off and he stated it was better to send these horses to be killed than risk them ending up with an unreliable buyer. Total bullshit of course. People that care about horses don't send them to be slaughtered because "they care about them". The main reasons of course were It was expedient and there were at least some $$ in it for the breeder. It's easy to justify doing nothing if you are convinced doing nothing makes sense. I'm not a protesting type but I am a big fan of the equine animal. Imagine this scenario. You have the property next door. You've seen how he treats his race horses and it's appalling. You have a horse that has reached it's mark and he offers to buy your horse from you. There is no ambiguity about what abuse and cruelty awaits your horse. Would you still sell it to him? If the answer is yes, then you'd have no issue with sending your horse to the Yole establishment. That would be your call. I can't condone cruelty and abuse to horses so would never sell a horse to Yole or anyone that would likely on-sell to Yole. If Tasmanian harness "needs" Yole, the sooner it's shut down the better. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 40 minutes ago, Walt said: I went to a yearling sale in Auckland some years ago. I learned that 22 yearlings were sent straight to the slaughter house immediately after the sale. Their crime? They didn't meet their reserve. I spoke to the person who signed this off and he stated it was better to send these horses to be killed than risk them ending up with an unreliable buyer. Total bullshit of course. People that care about horses don't send them to be slaughtered because "they care about them". The main reasons of course were It was expedient and there were at least some $$ in it for the breeder. I disagree. I still care about horses but you can't look after them all from the cradle to the grave. One of my farming mates always got his children to name the pet lamb - Lamb Chop and the pet calf - T-bone or cuts thereof. But if you want to own a horse and look after it for 30 years then go for it. Legislating that that should happen for every horse would well and truly end the racing industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: What you are suggesting that HRNZ can dictate who breeders or owners can sell their horses to? Aren't they struggling enough? Not dictate too Chief.. I think if HRNZ are trying to run the Harness business , and encourage new owners and good racing , then they need to have some ethics when it comes to horse welfare. Mr Galah , Walt and I are saying because it's just off-shore , that doesn't mean we (HRNZ) should ignore it. Nz owners and Horses are involved. they should be informed .... I think the NZ harness racing industry is already suffering because of it currently.. Summit Bloodstock already buying Nz low class runners to place in racing around Australia. North Island is already struggling for numbers to run meetings. They have SOLD too many already and/or race them themselves in Aus now. There's still plenty of good races in Nz and owners should aspire to Winning them there. Brodie is often commenting how Poor Auckland is .... and Why should this be the case ? Owners should Not be dealing with Summit Bloodstock for 'penny share buyers' to race at Ben Yoles. The report was damning. His poor staff 😪... i feel so bad for them .. Unfortunately Summit Bloodstock were part of the inaugural EUREKA winner from Emma Stewarts, so will be 'On the prowl' now, Buying up Nz horses, now Encipher is retired with injury. the horse got $1,000,000 first prize in this , Would be great to know how much each 'penny share owner' got out of all that. We'll never know, But After buying the Race-slot-slot, Summit Fees, Emma Stewart Fees would of been down to $1000 each lol... or thereabouts probably 😅. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 5 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Not dictate too Chief.. I think if HRNZ are trying to run the Harness business , and encourage new owners and good racing , then they need to have some ethics when it comes to horse welfare. Mr Galah , Walt and I are saying because it's just off-shore , that doesn't mean we (HRNZ) should ignore it. Nz owners and Horses are involved. they should be informed .... I think the NZ harness racing industry is already suffering because of it currently.. Summit Bloodstock already buying Nz low class runners to place in racing around Australia. North Island is already struggling for numbers to run meetings. They have SOLD too many already and/or race them themselves in Aus now. There's still plenty of good races in Nz and owners should aspire to Winning them there. Brodie is often commenting how Poor Auckland is .... and Why should this be the case ? Owners should Not be dealing with Summit Bloodstock for 'penny share buyers' to race at Ben Yoles. The report was damning. His poor staff 😪... i feel so bad for them .. Unfortunately Summit Bloodstock were part of the inaugural EUREKA winner from Emma Stewarts, so will be 'On the prowl' now, Buying up Nz horses, now Encipher is retired with injury. the horse got $1,000,000 first prize in this , Would be great to know how much each 'penny share owner' got out of all that. We'll never know, But After buying the Race-slot-slot, Summit Fees, Emma Stewart Fees would of been down to $1000 each lol... or thereabouts probably 😅. Obviously there are quite a few owners and breeders that are willing to sell their horses to whoever has the money to buy them. What a novel concept! How do you determine who is a worthy buyer? Who would ever consider buying a horse if it came with a condition that the owner had to look after it for 30 years!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Breeding and racing horses is a tough game, a hard game. Just like any other industry it has morally corrupt and unscrupulous participants. They get caught out eventually. HRNZ needs to focus here NOT there. Some of us can afford to be all nostalgic about the past and about the great horses. But just like any livestock industry there are some harsh realities. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Obviously there are quite a few owners and breeders that are willing to sell their horses to whoever has the money to buy them. What a novel concept! How do you determine who is a worthy buyer? Who would ever consider buying a horse if it came with a condition that the owner had to look after it for 30 years!! You are obviously right Chief. I know the thoroughbred people have gone to great lengths to re-home and help with retired race-horses at the end of their racing days. but the stock are of some value, whereas the trotters are worth nothing . But as you say the Big Breeders have a 'Lot of horses' and they have to send them 'somewhere'. And Bloodstock agencies are the Specialists in this Area. so you would think it would be fine to deal with any of them. Indeed,...... I wasn't going to mention this because it makes me sick . Grant Dixon and millionaire owner Seymour (and 2 of Grants other Millionaire owners as well ) have that many horses they've bred All the old geldings when can't keep up at Albion anymore , are almost on a production line to Summit and Yole in Tasmania as a 'clearance' place to send them too. Dozens of horses past 4 years. and they are Fully knowing the chainsaw will start down there if the horse can't get a place at Hobart or Launceston. Disgraceful. I said to Grant you wouldn't send 'Leap To Fame' , (the Interdominion Champion) down there would you?... now They are not talking to me anymore 😪 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Indeed,...... I wasn't going to mention this because it makes me sick . Grant Dixon and millionaire owner Seymour (and 2 of Grants other Millionaire owners as well ) have that many horses they've bred All the old geldings when can't keep up at Albion anymore , are almost on a production line to Summit and Yole in Tasmania as a 'clearance' place to send them too. Dozens of horses past 4 years. and they are Fully knowing the chainsaw will start down there if the horse can't get a place at Hobart or Launceston. Disgraceful. What's the alternative?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I disagree. I still care about horses but you can't look after them all from the cradle to the grave. One of my farming mates always got his children to name the pet lamb - Lamb Chop and the pet calf - T-bone or cuts thereof. But if you want to own a horse and look after it for 30 years then go for it. Legislating that that should happen for every horse would well and truly end the racing industry. Declare my hand Chief. This is something that surprised those close to me. I've been eating a pescatarian diet only for the last three years. I've always been a big meat eater but it got to a point where me being a softie with animals but eating them didn't line up. I felt insincere and a hypocrite especially when there were decent enough alternatives available. I don't give a flying fark what others eat. I'm not interesting in changing the way anyone else sees eating meat. I'm doing what is comfortable and sits right with me. I still love the smell of bacon, feed our guests a big juicy steak and happily go out in my boat or kayak and fill my bin with fish. For the record, I also have two large aquariums full of tropical fish. My rural mates mostly all take charge of home killing their livestock and it's also common for their children to name their lambs, lega etc and their cattle, sirloin etc. Call me old fashioned or an idealist but I don't see horses in the same way. If I buy a horse of any age or ability, I feel a responsibility for it. That responsibility extends past it no longer being in my ownership. I see "Free to good home" in exactly the same way I see "Selling to a good home". Told you I was an idealist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 minute ago, Walt said: I've been eating a pescatarian diet only for the last three years. Don't fish have feelings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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