Doomed Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 What sort of meeting is Tauranga this Sunday? I see it has the $40,000 stakes and $25,000 maiden stakes associated with a feature meeting but the races are all maidens and 65s, other than one 75 race. Feature meetings with feature stakes usually have an open race or some sort of feature race. Is this the only meeting of its type for the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Speaking of feature meetings this weekend, I see there were insufficient noms to run the open 1800 at Riccarton. They didn't even bother to leave the noms open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I'm surprised they let the 2 year old race continue with that ethos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 25 minutes ago, Freda said: I'm surprised they let the 2 year old race continue with that ethos. They had 5 noms for both races just before noms closed. Seems inequitable to run the 2yo and not even leave noms open for the open 1800. It was a 50k race that some may have aimed for at considerable expense. I wonder if they got on the phone to see if they could get a few more or would that be in the too hard basket? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Freda said: I'm surprised they let the 2 year old race continue with that ethos. Has there been many 2yr old races in the South this year or even for the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 4 hours ago, curious said: Speaking of feature meetings this weekend, I see there were insufficient noms to run the open 1800 at Riccarton. They didn't even bother to leave the noms open. Same thing happened in the South last year from memory. They have relatively high staked open stayers races every week for a couple of months. There just aren't enough horses to go around. The $70,000 Marlborough Cup had only 6 noms but they left it open and got a decent field of 11. They just don't quite get the concept of tiered racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 12 hours ago, Doomed said: What sort of meeting is Tauranga this Sunday? I see it has the $40,000 stakes and $25,000 maiden stakes associated with a feature meeting but the races are all maidens and 65s, other than one 75 race. Feature meetings with feature stakes usually have an open race or some sort of feature race. Is this the only meeting of its type for the season? It will probably because it will be a twilight meeting. Minimum stakes of $25k for twilight meets ie Matamata today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 3 hours ago, Freda said: I'm surprised they let the 2 year old race continue with that ethos. Surely they had no choice? They scrapped the last 2yo race. There are only a few 2yos in work because the programming is so bad, if they dumped this race as well they would have no 2yos in work before long. Meanwhile Taranaki runs what must surely be the weakest Group 3 of the season so far for $80,000 and about 7 runners from memory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Just now, All The Aces said: It will probably because it will be a twilight meeting. Minimum stakes of $25k for twilight meets ie Matamata today. But this one has $40,000 rating 65s and not $25,000, which makes it quite unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 12 minutes ago, Doomed said: Surely they had no choice? They scrapped the last 2yo race. There are only a few 2yos in work because the programming is so bad, if they dumped this race as well they would have no 2yos in work before long My point too. 12 minutes ago, Doomed said: Meanwhile Taranaki runs what must surely be the weakest Group 3 of the season so far for $80,000 and about 7 runners from memory. What you think the Wellington Cup was any better? The first two are quite good fillies but the 2yr old pattern gets screwed by the Karaka Millions. Been run for other 40 years and some top horses have won it. For obvious reasons it struggles. Now prior to the KM the pattern points only to the KM - they need to fix the alternative path for those horses that are KM ineligible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Has there been many 2yr old races in the South this year or even for the season? interestingly, the exact same thing happened last year. 2yo race scrapped at the Jan meeting, 5 runners at the Feb meeting. You presume they sat down after those meetings and said "what must we do to ensure the exact same thing doesn't happen again?". Lo and behold the exact same thing happens again. One presumes they will sit down after these meetings and say "we must make sure this doesn't happen again". Their normal approach to such things is to restrict opportunities even more to try and force trainers to support the few races that remain. That doesn't really seem to be working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 41 minutes ago, Doomed said: interestingly, the exact same thing happened last year. 2yo race scrapped at the Jan meeting, 5 runners at the Feb meeting. You presume they sat down after those meetings and said "what must we do to ensure the exact same thing doesn't happen again?". Lo and behold the exact same thing happens again. One presumes they will sit down after these meetings and say "we must make sure this doesn't happen again". Their normal approach to such things is to restrict opportunities even more to try and force trainers to support the few races that remain. That doesn't really seem to be working. Einstein's definition of insanity springs to mind. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 43 minutes ago, Doomed said: interestingly, the exact same thing happened last year. 2yo race scrapped at the Jan meeting, 5 runners at the Feb meeting. You presume they sat down after those meetings and said "what must we do to ensure the exact same thing doesn't happen again?". Lo and behold the exact same thing happens again. One presumes they will sit down after these meetings and say "we must make sure this doesn't happen again". Their normal approach to such things is to restrict opportunities even more to try and force trainers to support the few races that remain. That doesn't really seem to be working. It might be usual but it doesn't strike me as "normal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Back to the topic of thread......TAURANGA It is a FEATURE meeting and the stakes on offer reflect that.....there just no 'open race' as such. The draft funding policy was set out months ago , and tweaks / changes are being made as they go . They looking to the future so connections know the stakes are there and can prepare with certainty. But it is obvious that if the nominations are too low then changes will be made. Entain doing a fine job with stakes promise ! And with two year old races the same applies....they are saying well in advance what races will be run , but if connections don't play ball then how long will they persevere . Big surprise the pitiful noms for Canterbury 2 yr old race , with two of 5 from North Island ,particularly as it doubles as a PEARL series race as well with bonus's up for grabs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 3 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Big surprise the pitiful noms for Canterbury 2 yr old race , with two of 5 from North Island ,particularly as it doubles as a PEARL series race as well with bonus's up for grabs . Not sure why that's a surprise with no 2yo races in the SI. Only one Pearl nominated horse so that's obviously not a big attraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 minutes ago, curious said: Not sure why that's a surprise with no 2yo races in the SI. Only one Pearl nominated horse so that's obviously not a big attraction. Exactly ,many of the North island horses who head south to race are female with a Pearl nomination. My Syndicate sent a slow Northerner south with her Pearl nom in tow and all we had then was a slow Southerner...haha. Entain etc are looking out to promote 2 yr old racing all codes.....its up to the connections to show they have the commitment to provide the horses . Had 12 horses lined up for Saturday then other races 'pencilled' into plan would have been all go... possibly unsure now. The same has happened in the Harness code...so many 2 yr old races were being canned cos low noms so connections gave up. Now there is hope with Entain and connections have seen that the races will go ahead so YOU have to pay your part. The South let the jumps racing slip away , don't do the same to 2 yr old racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 27 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Entain doing a fine job with stakes promise ! No Entain have promised the funding (even if they have to subsidise it) - NZTR decided how the funding is distributed in terms of Stakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 9 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Entain etc are looking out to promote 2 yr old racing all codes. Are you saying that Entain are now determining the racing calendar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 41 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Now there is hope with Entain and connections have seen that the races will go ahead so YOU have to pay your part. The South let the jumps racing slip away , don't do the same to 2 yr old racing. You are getting the cart before the horse. The programming is up to NZTR and individual allocation of race stakes funding is up to NZTR. Surely you are not suggesting that Entain are running everything? You really do talk like an adminstrator when you say that it is up to the trainers/owners. Most in the industry would say that they are being hindered by the poor programming. Not to mention the handicapping system. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 TBF I thought the Taranaki 2yo and their Cup race were probably the best fields they have had in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 I will be interested to hear from Pam what the trainers attitude is towards 2yos in the south. My own totally removed feeling is that it is a chicken and egg situation. Because there aren't many races the trainers don't bother, and because the trainers don't bother races have small fields or have to be scrapped. I do feel that the pattern whereby virtually the only 2yo races are $40,000 races at Riccarton scares many trainers off. They can't see the point of taking on a couple of Te Akau horses down the big Riccarton straight with a horse that they don't think would be competitive. I do wonder whether some $18,500 maiden 2yo races away from Riccarton might help. Interestingly, many years ago Wingatui used to have a Sept 2yo race, variously called the McLean Stakes or Kindergarten Stakes, and then the Champagne Stakes on Boxing day. And they used to get decent fields. These days, from memory, I think there is one 2yo race all season in Otago and just the one Southland 2yo race at Riverton. And of course Riccarton has long since scrapped their only race for 2yo fillies. And the Welcome Stakes has now moved from Nov, probably rightly so. I imagine that will gradually kill off spring 2yo racing in the South. With the move towards breeding more precious youngsters, the popularity of big syndicates who want early goers, and liberal watering of tracks so they don't have to race on rock hard surfaces I would have thought this would be the ideal time to encourage 2yo racing. Afterall, trainers no longer have to give a horse lots of time with the aim to have a jumper in 6 years. I wonder if there is a plan? I wonder if the CJC is taking a leadership role, or will they leave it all to Entain for now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: You are getting the cart before the horse. The programming is up to NZTR and individual allocation of race stakes funding is up to NZTR. Surely you are not suggesting that Entain are running everything? You really do talk like an adminstrator when you say that it is up to the trainers/owners. Most in the industry would say that they are being hindered by the poor programming. Not to mention the handicapping system. No , not at all...in fact in a recent post I had to point out that the TAB/Entain were not to blame for the allocation of stakes which was being criticised but the funding went to the codes who distributed it. My point is that Entain has changed the whole attitude and thinking which went into the programming etc.This thread...Tauranga...soon deviated to a Canterbury 2 yr old race with low noms and the suggestion that this could lead to races being canned...maybe the reason there are NO 2 yr olds in South Island . Clearly leading into blame ...another thing to 'blame' them for and something to moan about on these forums. I say the South needs to look at itself...it let Jumps racing go.....having lived in the South for most of my life I have seen and heard it all before...poor us ! Entain has given a new confidence to racing and the South needs to embrace it.......over the next 2 x months there are 2 year old races planned at at least 3 x Southern tracks before a listed race at Riccarton in early April ,plus a couple of good races at Trentham ,only a short boat ride away. Of course its's hard to whip up a 2 yr old at short notice but there is the knowledge that the races are there for next year.Not sure if many Southern buyers were at Karaka ....another story ! Maybe they all read these sites and conclude there are no races cos the programming is so bad ....ZZZZZ really is a snore ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 26 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: No , not at all...in fact in a recent post I had to point out that the TAB/Entain were not to blame for the allocation of stakes which was being criticised but the funding went to the codes who distributed it. You are contradicting yourself! If they are not to blame for the allocation of stakes you can't give them credit either. 26 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: My point is that Entain has changed the whole attitude and thinking which went into the programming etc. How? I haven't seen any evidence of a change in programming. They are still doing the same old same old. @curious mentioned Einstein's definition of insanity. 26 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: I say the South needs to look at itself...it let Jumps racing go.....having lived in the South for most of my life I have seen and heard it all before...poor us ! Bollocks. The programmers did whoever the nameless creatures are. Equally you could say Ellerslie "let Jumps racing go". Supposedly to build a hidden 2m litre water tank. 26 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Entain has given a new confidence to racing and the South needs to embrace it.......over the next 2 x months there are 2 year old races planned at at least 3 x Southern tracks before a listed race at Riccarton in early April ,plus a couple of good races at Trentham ,only a short boat ride away. Correct me if I'm wrong but Entain have NOTHING to do with programming races. 26 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: Maybe they all read these sites and conclude there are no races cos the programming is so bad ....ZZZZZ really is a snore ! Obviously you haven't listened to the trainers that are complaining on both islands. Both elite and battlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 44 minutes ago, Doomed said: I will be interested to hear from Pam what the trainers attitude is towards 2yos in the south. My own totally removed feeling is that it is a chicken and egg situation. Because there aren't many races the trainers don't bother, and because the trainers don't bother races have small fields or have to be scrapped. You only need 2 for a race. I have no problem with small 2yr old fields. Large fields are normally a disaster for babies anyway. They have to start somewhere. Any complaints about wagerimg revenue can be nullified by just mentioning the return on the KM races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 3 hours ago, Doomed said: I will be interested to hear from Pam what the trainers attitude is towards 2yos in the south. My own totally removed feeling is that it is a chicken and egg situation. Because there aren't many races the trainers don't bother, and because the trainers don't bother races have small fields or have to be scrapped. I do feel that the pattern whereby virtually the only 2yo races are $40,000 races at Riccarton scares many trainers off. They can't see the point of taking on a couple of Te Akau horses down the big Riccarton straight with a horse that they don't think would be competitive. I do wonder whether some $18,500 maiden 2yo races away from Riccarton might help. Interestingly, many years ago Wingatui used to have a Sept 2yo race, variously called the McLean Stakes or Kindergarten Stakes, and then the Champagne Stakes on Boxing day. And they used to get decent fields. These days, from memory, I think there is one 2yo race all season in Otago and just the one Southland 2yo race at Riverton. And of course Riccarton has long since scrapped their only race for 2yo fillies. And the Welcome Stakes has now moved from Nov, probably rightly so. I imagine that will gradually kill off spring 2yo racing in the South. With the move towards breeding more precious youngsters, the popularity of big syndicates who want early goers, and liberal watering of tracks so they don't have to race on rock hard surfaces I would have thought this would be the ideal time to encourage 2yo racing. Afterall, trainers no longer have to give a horse lots of time with the aim to have a jumper in 6 years. I wonder if there is a plan? I wonder if the CJC is taking a leadership role, or will they leave it all to Entain for now? 2yo races at other venues after the KM , otherwise you'll just get TA or Marsh turning up with 500k of horse flesh to get prizemoney to get into the KM , which will likely happen anyway. I don't mind why trainers who don't have access to owners with deep pockets even bother with 2yo racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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