TAB For Ever Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 The TAB have purchased at least 4 x horses at Harness sales for their Account holders to enjoy , learn and experience Horse Ownership. This included the Sales Topper for $320k which is going to BPurdon/SPhelan stable.The others going to Dunns, Dalgety and NWilliamson in South. Now those with the glass half empty will say that the TAB should be sorting a heap of other stuff before a gimmick like this ...they will be negative toward it. But others with their glass half full will say this should be fun......once they 'sign up ' for a horse they will receive all the info an owner would receive in breaking in and trials thru to raceday etc when a number of folk will be drawn as owners for day and receive a % of winning purse as any owner would. And it's FREE to sign up. The TAB is so crucial in our industry in NZ , and it recognises it needs to facilitate and promote the two key components....Wagering and Horse Ownership. And I heard a whisper from my neighbours mother-in-laws gardeners friend that if any infrastructure failure IT break down ,they will burst out the hand-written yellow tickets and oncourse punched exchange ticket system with all bets on 60 to 90 minutes prior to race ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: The TAB have purchased at least 4 x horses at Harness sales for their Account holders to enjoy , learn and experience Horse Ownership. This included the Sales Topper for $320k which is going to BPurdon/SPhelan stable.The others going to Dunns, Dalgety and NWilliamson in South. Now those with the glass half empty will say that the TAB should be sorting a heap of other stuff before a gimmick like this ...they will be negative toward it. But others with their glass half full will say this should be fun......once they 'sign up ' for a horse they will receive all the info an owner would receive in breaking in and trials thru to raceday etc when a number of folk will be drawn as owners for day and receive a % of winning purse as any owner would. And it's FREE to sign up. The TAB is so crucial in our industry in NZ , and it recognises it needs to facilitate and promote the two key components....Wagering and Horse Ownership. And I heard a whisper from my neighbours mother-in-laws gardeners friend that if any infrastructure failure IT break down ,they will burst out the hand-written yellow tickets and oncourse punched exchange ticket system with all bets on 60 to 90 minutes prior to race ! Does the TAB know that spending $340,000 does not guarantee the best horse or actually a horse with any ability at all. For that sort of money they could have purchased several and had them trained for a year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: The TAB have purchased at least 4 x horses at Harness sales for their Account holders to enjoy , learn and experience Horse Ownership. TABNZ or ENTAIN? They are two different entities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: TABNZ or ENTAIN? They are two different entities. Under the banner of TAB Racing Club but the Entain CEO was doing the bidding when they bought that horse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Under the banner of TAB Racing Club but the Entain CEO was doing the bidding when they bought that horse. I'm fairly sure that it isn't TABNZ buying the horses. ENTAIN is. They are using the TAB brand. What few people realise is that there is still an expensive set of suits employed by TABNZ. The wagering/revenue component has been outsourced to ENTAIN. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honestjohn Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I smell back handed and all sorts of rorts to be had here. I know it does go on, I have first hand knowledge of it. Not with the tab but participants in the industry. in fact I smell big rorts here. Hj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, Nowornever said: Does the TAB know that spending $340,000 does not guarantee the best horse or actually a horse with any ability at all. For that sort of money they could have purchased several and had them trained for a year. The boss of Entain knows a bit about paying good coin for well bred horses at Harness Sales. He has bought and raised many top notch horses including Merlin and Belle of Montana , Group1 victors. So he knows a bit about it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 28 minutes ago, Honestjohn said: I smell back handed and all sorts of rorts to be had here. I know it does go on, I have first hand knowledge of it. Not with the tab but participants in the industry. in fact I smell big rorts here. Hj The top lot was the one that all the 'big buyers ' wanted on breeding , type and recent family results. Auctions invariably have little quirks with various 'wheeling dealing ' going on . An opening bid of $200k let the field know that some buyers were serious about success. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 16 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: The boss of Entain knows a bit about paying good coin for well bred horses at Harness Sales. He has bought and raised many top notch horses including Merlin and Belle of Montana , Group1 victors. So he knows a bit about it ! Yes and now he is playing with Racing Industry money. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honestjohn Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Yes and now he is playing with Racing Industry money. That's what I mean. True story my trainer was putting a horse in the sales. Another well known trainer went to my trainer and said you run the bid up to 90k and I'll buy it, we will split the difference. The horse was worth about 30k. My trainer who I consider honest said I'm not getting involved with any of that shit .i think the horse eventually sold for 25 k. I can pm the names of the trainers if Chief wants to Chief. Hj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Honestjohn said: That's what I mean. True story my trainer was putting a horse in the sales. Another well known trainer went to my trainer and said you run the bid up to 90k and I'll buy it, we will split the difference. The horse was worth about 30k. My trainer who I consider honest said I'm not getting involved with any of that shit .i think the horse eventually sold for 25 k. I can pm the names of the trainers if Chief wants to Chief. Hj That split the difference rort has been going on for decades at Horse Auctions......the rumour goes ! So when this happens the Owner [s] who agrees to race the horse or join the syndicate are the ones paying overs. Ultimately ,the word gets around as most don't like it so the 'shifty' trainer loses reputation.And the owner is lost....unsure if $2 mill buyer of Sunline yearling has been back too often Horse dealing has a lot of questionable parts to it. As a tiny breeder I never lucked it at an auction , failing to even make the Stallion fee on most ! When buying you try to check things out like XRays etc and you have an idea of a fair price ! Many syndicate buyers have a Budget prior to bidding and stick to it. Often the real cost of owning a horse are the ongoing running costs .IME 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: The boss of Entain knows a bit about paying good coin for well bred horses at Harness Sales. He has bought and raised many top notch horses including Merlin and Belle of Montana , Group1 victors. So he knows a bit about it ! Has got some nice stock in recent times . Dean Shannon did try and sell his sprawling stud in South East Queensland. think it passed in at 8 million once. he might have leased it to some other horse folk now. He missed out on bidding for MERLIN's yearling brother last year. Dean was the underbidder in the end. The winning bid going to a nice Queensland friend of mine was quite a surprise. By Captain Treacherous too. should be a real beauty . Has been left with Cran Dalgety at this stage. If it makes the NZ Derby next year i might fly over with Terry and join the party and give him good luck 😂🏆💰 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Nothing wrong with a gimmick, but this one is gonna cost some bucks, chances are horses might not get to the races. Would be better targeting a trainer with a good horse, pay owner / trainer % to lease part of horse for a day or so when it races, those that draw get invited to event, would be a far better option. Trying to get into horse ownership when you have punters that can’t get a bet on…. Well 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Newmarket said: Nothing wrong with a gimmick, but this one is gonna cost some bucks, chances are horses might not get to the races. Would be better targeting a trainer with a good horse, pay owner / trainer % to lease part of horse for a day or so when it races, those that draw get invited to event, would be a far better option. Trying to get into horse ownership when you have punters that can’t get a bet on…. Well Pretty much correct. But there are 4 x Harness and I think 8 x gallopers. Imagine at least half of them qualify and get to races......say 6 or 7 horses . Say several thousand sign up for each horse , then that horse will have an army of followers when it races. No idea how many Account holders who sign up will be drawn out to be a raceday owner each start with the chance to enjoy the day of races and win a share of any Stakes won. I think it has possibilities ...a very good promotion IMO ! Micro- ownership for a very small investment is becoming quite popular ! Anyone can get a share in a Horse for peanuts and no surprise bills. These ones are Free ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said: Pretty much correct. But there are 4 x Harness and I think 8 x gallopers. Imagine at least half of them qualify and get to races......say 6 or 7 horses . Say several thousand sign up for each horse , then that horse will have an army of followers when it races. No idea how many Account holders who sign up will be drawn out to be a raceday owner each start with the chance to enjoy the day of races and win a share of any Stakes won. I think it has possibilities ...a very good promotion IMO ! Micro- ownership for a very small investment is becoming quite popular ! Anyone can get a share in a Horse for peanuts and no surprise bills. These ones are Free ! Yes it is a gimmick, and it will bring a bit of publicity for harness racing and it does need it! It is free to anyone with no purchase costs or training costs, so it isnt actually going to be bringing in any legitimate new owners who are going to be paying training bills!! I agree with Newmarket, the purchase cost is huge for a yearling harness horse and could be several years before it actually races! to attract interest and get people punting on the syndicate horses, they couldve had a lot more interest and fun with purchasing several race horses for immediate racing! Anyway, not my money and at least Entain are chucking money around to hopefully engender interest in the industry! Suggestion to get the turnover up and going would be for the TAB to come out and say that they are breaking the AML law, and actually apply the correct limit in terms of the ACT! Punters are not being allowed to wager when and what they want due to the TAB continuing to want total control of the punters! Maybe Entain will actually read the AML ACT and actually operate by the correct limit in terms of the ACT??? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 11 hours ago, Brodie said: Yes it is a gimmick, and it will bring a bit of publicity for harness racing and it does need it! It is free to anyone with no purchase costs or training costs, so it isnt actually going to be bringing in any legitimate new owners who are going to be paying training bills!! I agree with Newmarket, the purchase cost is huge for a yearling harness horse and could be several years before it actually races! to attract interest and get people punting on the syndicate horses, they couldve had a lot more interest and fun with purchasing several race horses for immediate racing! Anyway, not my money and at least Entain are chucking money around to hopefully engender interest in the industry! Suggestion to get the turnover up and going would be for the TAB to come out and say that they are breaking the AML law, and actually apply the correct limit in terms of the ACT! Punters are not being allowed to wager when and what they want due to the TAB continuing to want total control of the punters! Maybe Entain will actually read the AML ACT and actually operate by the correct limit in terms of the ACT??? On actions so far you can assume Entain will be exploring all opportunities to increase wagering and make lapsed customers and disgruntled folk such as yourself keen to increase their enthusiasm ! Have you personally approached Entain Boss Dean for bit of a YARN. I've seen him at the Trots a few times in the past month. Seems decent and approachable. As for buying current horses who are racing....many on the tracks now have little or no chance of paying their way or winning more than ONE race.Best to be patient and get these well bred horses with top trainers so the journey from cradle to grave can be followed .Little point in paying overs for a plodder . These yearlings have the chance of being the next Lazarus or Winx. Who is going to sell or lease a good horse in form to 'star' in other peoples ownership/control? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 19 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: On actions so far you can assume Entain will be exploring all opportunities to increase wagering and make lapsed customers and disgruntled folk such as yourself keen to increase their enthusiasm ! Have you personally approached Entain Boss Dean for bit of a YARN. I've seen him at the Trots a few times in the past month. Seems decent and approachable. As for buying current horses who are racing....many on the tracks now have little or no chance of paying their way or winning more than ONE race.Best to be patient and get these well bred horses with top trainers so the journey from cradle to grave can be followed .Little point in paying overs for a plodder . These yearlings have the chance of being the next Lazarus or Winx. Who is going to sell or lease a good horse in form to 'star' in other peoples ownership/control? A few years back a local radio station with Breakfast announcers James Daniel’s & Ken Ellis did just that. From memory the horse from the Shinns stable was the handy filly Nevermore, won a few races. They got quite a few to the track, was good advertising so it can be done. If you have a good horse running on a big night, why not lease out a % for a cost?? Be a far better option, even engaging the BGP boys would be a good option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 11 hours ago, Brodie said: Punters are not being allowed to wager when and what they want due to the TAB continuing to want total control of the punters! Not true Brodster. Punters are Problem Gamblers a lot of the time. If they could put on What they want , when they want ... there would be MANY MANY suffering (possibly hungry) families , and the Bills would be in danger of not being able to paid. You Need Limits mate. From what i've seen here in 4 years is enthusiasts like Galah, Walt, Newmarket and myself are happy with $50 bets , and our knowledge of the sport is exceptionally high. Mug punters are just going to lose mate , that have less knowledge of the inner workings of the Sport. You Need Limits for them. they'll spend all they've got (like the pokies do to them anyway) You want to plonk $1000 a place on something all the time , but most (Nearly All) folk find that an unrealistic prospect . who wants to lose a thousand on something running 4th even once ? And if you've got a thousand to waste , why not a weekend away at a luxury resort /holiday /visit someone/home improvements etc etc , a million things you could do than 'Waste' a $1000 on a bloody horse bet. A keen Person would be WAY WAY Better to just race them/ one if you've got that money to spend/waste/invest... good on Dean Shannon giving some new types of owners a dabble . seems a great initiative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: Not true Brodster. Punters are Problem Gamblers a lot of the time. If they could put on What they want , when they want ... there would be MANY MANY suffering (possibly hungry) families , and the Bills would be in danger of not being able to paid. You Need Limits mate. From what i've seen here in 4 years is enthusiasts like Galah, Walt, Newmarket and myself are happy with $50 bets , and our knowledge of the sport is exceptionally high. Mug punters are just going to lose mate , that have less knowledge of the inner workings of the Sport. You Need Limits for them. they'll spend all they've got (like the pokies do to them anyway) You want to plonk $1000 a place on something all the time , but most (Nearly All) folk find that an unrealistic prospect . who wants to lose a thousand on something running 4th even once ? And if you've got a thousand to waste , why not a weekend away at a luxury resort /holiday /visit someone/home improvements etc etc , a million things you could do than 'Waste' a $1000 on a bloody horse bet. A keen Person would be WAY WAY Better to just race them/ one if you've got that money to spend/waste/invest... good on Dean Shannon giving some new types of owners a dabble . seems a great initiative. 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: Not true Brodster. Punters are Problem Gamblers a lot of the time. If they could put on What they want , when they want ... there would be MANY MANY suffering (possibly hungry) families , and the Bills would be in danger of not being able to paid. You Need Limits mate. From what i've seen here in 4 years is enthusiasts like Galah, Walt, Newmarket and myself are happy with $50 bets , and our knowledge of the sport is exceptionally high. Mug punters are just going to lose mate , that have less knowledge of the inner workings of the Sport. You Need Limits for them. they'll spend all they've got (like the pokies do to them anyway) You want to plonk $1000 a place on something all the time , but most (Nearly All) folk find that an unrealistic prospect . who wants to lose a thousand on something running 4th even once ? And if you've got a thousand to waste , why not a weekend away at a luxury resort /holiday /visit someone/home improvements etc etc , a million things you could do than 'Waste' a $1000 on a bloody horse bet. A keen Person would be WAY WAY Better to just race them/ one if you've got that money to spend/waste/invest... good on Dean Shannon giving some new types of owners a dabble . seems a great initiative. Gamma, does the TAB actually care about punters that are problem gamblers despite the advertising? All that Brodie thinks is reasonable is they respect the AML act limit that is in law rather than the $1k limit! Also punters should all be treated equally or at least have reasonable punting limits! Are losing punters really on restricted limits as well? Highly doubt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 19 minutes ago, Brodie said: Gamma, does the TAB actually care about punters that are problem gamblers despite the advertising? All that Brodie thinks is reasonable is they respect the AML act limit that is in law rather than the $1k limit! Also punters should all be treated equally or at least have reasonable punting limits! Are losing punters really on restricted limits as well? Highly doubt it? i would think betting limits apply to everyone. in some cases it is a good thing . to save them losing too much on a day when they're on a mindless bender (Like they do with Pokies) ... in these more expensive cost of living times. Credit cards have daily limits for a lot of folk which is also a blessing. (definitely not for me though , I'm a 'pay as you go' type lol.) ...pay dearly too stuck with my missus 😂🤣 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: Not true Brodster. Punters are Problem Gamblers a lot of the time. If they could put on What they want , when they want ... there would be MANY MANY suffering (possibly hungry) families , and the Bills would be in danger of not being able to paid. You Need Limits mate. From what i've seen here in 4 years is enthusiasts like Galah, Walt, Newmarket and myself are happy with $50 bets , and our knowledge of the sport is exceptionally high. Mug punters are just going to lose mate , that have less knowledge of the inner workings of the Sport. You Need Limits for them. they'll spend all they've got (like the pokies do to them anyway) You want to plonk $1000 a place on something all the time , but most (Nearly All) folk find that an unrealistic prospect . who wants to lose a thousand on something running 4th even once ? And if you've got a thousand to waste , why not a weekend away at a luxury resort /holiday /visit someone/home improvements etc etc , a million things you could do than 'Waste' a $1000 on a bloody horse bet. A keen Person would be WAY WAY Better to just race them/ one if you've got that money to spend/waste/invest... good on Dean Shannon giving some new types of owners a dabble . seems a great initiative. Back in the day Gamma I felt a $50 wager was almost a waste of time. If I liked a pony enough to wager on it then I felt I should back myself. Then that all started to change. As you correctly point out, $1000 or more is a lot to lose when there are so many other demands on your dosh. If I was to be completely upfront I'd admit my good lady had influence on me. She's conservative and risk averse where as I'm a risk taker. Explaining to her what happened to my 5k place bet that ran an unlucky fourth was no picnic. I started keeping my bet sizes from her and at the same time, my punting enjoyment lessened. When I won it was a relief as much as anything. That's not a good mindset. Eventually I stopped wagering altogether but never lost my love of light harness. Now it's $50 a win or $50 on a trifecta or treble. Doesn't matter if I've won my last six or seven bets. I still only bet $50 and feel comfortable with that. If I'm unlucky, I don't lose a moments sleep over it. I respect the way Brodie punts. It works for him and he's making a quid while retaining his sanity and his adoration of Jacinda Ardern and the Covid vaccine 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, Gammalite said: i would think betting limits apply to everyone. in some cases it is a good thing . to save them losing too much on a day when they're on a mindless bender (Like they do with Pokies) ... in these more expensive cost of living times. Credit cards have daily limits for a lot of folk which is also a blessing. (definitely not for me though , I'm a 'pay as you go' type lol.) ...pay dearly too stuck with my missus 😂🤣 snap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 3 hours ago, Walt said: Back in the day Gamma I felt a $50 wager was almost a waste of time. If I liked a pony enough to wager on it then I felt I should back myself. Then that all started to change. As you correctly point out, $1000 or more is a lot to lose when there are so many other demands on your dosh. If I was to be completely upfront I'd admit my good lady had influence on me. She's conservative and risk averse where as I'm a risk taker. Explaining to her what happened to my 5k place bet that ran an unlucky fourth was no picnic. I started keeping my bet sizes from her and at the same time, my punting enjoyment lessened. When I won it was a relief as much as anything. That's not a good mindset. Eventually I stopped wagering altogether but never lost my love of light harness. Now it's $50 a win or $50 on a trifecta or treble. Doesn't matter if I've won my last six or seven bets. I still only bet $50 and feel comfortable with that. If I'm unlucky, I don't lose a moments sleep over it. I respect the way Brodie punts. It works for him and he's making a quid while retaining his sanity and his adoration of Jacinda Ardern and the Covid vaccine To be fair $1k is not a huge amount of money in this day and age! it is all relative I suppose as to your financial position, but the restrictions on punters by the TAB in NZ are ludicrously low! The AML limit that the TAB are adopting is also in breach of the current AML Act from last year!!!!! The point remains that many punters are being unfairly victimised!!! If you are good at something then why should you be penalised?? Haven’t got a problem with them having some restrictions perhaps, but the levels they adopt are ridiculously low! I am sure that if I started to show that I was losing they would quickly drop my restrictions! Edited February 24 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Brodie said: To be fair $1k is not a huge amount of money in this day and age! Would have got you half a million aniseed balls back when you were in your prime. Jack Ryan had the delivery contract. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Ranga, always be in my prime, thats why I am badly restricted! Aniseed balls were good.👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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