The Art Of Buying a Top Horse. You'll all be at the next sales!!

[Chief Stipe]

 

[curious]

Good piece.  Big ears ! lol.

[nomates]

11 minutes ago, curious said:

Good piece.  Big ears ! lol.

And that about sums it up when you have squillions of other people's money to play with . I know of plenty of good judges , not all high profile either , that would have bought just as many if not more good horses .

Money is the liberating factor . 

[Joe Bloggs]

20 minutes ago, nomates said:

And that about sums it up when you have squillions of other people's money to play with . I know of plenty of good judges , not all high profile either , that would have bought just as many if not more good horses .

Money is the liberating factor . 

Touche!

[Chief Stipe]

34 minutes ago, nomates said:

And that about sums it up when you have squillions of other people's money to play with . I know of plenty of good judges , not all high profile either , that would have bought just as many if not more good horses .

Money is the liberating factor . 

Really?  Ellis has the highest black type to purchase ratio of anyone buying at the Magic Millions.  But then @Joe Bloggs for some strange reason doesn't consider that a very good sale to buy from.

Of course @nomates neglects to mention that none of the horses Ellis buys are pre-sold I.e. he buys them all with his own finance and on spec.

[nomates]

30 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Touche!

As ever Joe , someone is walking on the other side of the tracks , go figure .

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, nomates said:

As ever Joe , someone is walking on the other side of the tracks , go figure .

How are the Roc De Cambes going?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

I know of plenty of good judges , not all high profile either , that would have bought just as many if not more good horses .

Name some?  Can't be any Joe Bloggs.

[Joe Bloggs]

That tongue of yours is more a ''cat of nine tails' chief, you flail about intent on hurt and destruction but end up just self flagellating, but you go for it boyo, we just love it eh Nomates?

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

That tongue of yours is more a ''cat of nine tails' chief, you flail about intent on hurt and destruction but end up just self flagellating, but you go for it boyo, we just love it eh Nomates?

Yet you don't respond with any substance.

Are you both going to put up or not?

I recall a similar thread a year ago where @nomates, @Reefton and you were knocking away.  

[Joe Bloggs]

Well, re the Roc de Cambes, satisfied with ours thanks, won 4 from 18, a few placings and we've trebled the prize money on the punt....as you well know, wink wink........Roc is a totally underestimated stallion, as was Iffraaj and Showcasing, but the Roc de Cambes can sprint or stay, very versatile, I wish I had more........

[Special Agent]

To me it seems that David Ellis, Paul Moroney and Phill Cataldo all look for similar attributes when buying yearlings.  You'd have to say all three are pretty good judges.  Then I guess the size of the wallet becomes an important factor.  For a long time Paul was well respected for buying good race horses for budget prices.  Of course there are others but, these came to mind while you guys were going tit for tat.

[Jim Green]

An interesting breakdown would be who has the most successful recouping the purchase price from prizemoney.

Making a profit off these "investments" would be very rare with the high costs involved I'm sure.

Kevin Myers,Ross McCarroll,Robbie Patterson are 3 I've noticed who do very well with horses who don't have K1 pedigrees.

Te Akau have built an empire. They obviously do something right. The results,the experience etc and the blooding of young people into the brutal industry of racing is great to see. We need the net generation coming through to take over from us old farts

[Gammalite]

25 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

To me it seems that David Ellis, Paul Moroney and Phill Cataldo all look for similar attributes when buying yearlings.  You'd have to say all three are pretty good judges.  Then I guess the size of the wallet becomes an important factor.  For a long time Paul was well respected for buying good race horses for budget prices.  Of course there are others but, these came to mind while you guys were going tit for tat.

Seems a lot of yearlings about in the Big stables after the Sales. These Slipper nomination numbers show that the Big stables Buy a fair few , as their owners have indeed got a hefty sized wallet , as don't a lot of the yearlings nearly reach $1,000,000 these days ? glad I bought Pacers back in the day . you can stay sane , and not worry about injury /or can't run as much lol 😆😅

2024 Golden Slipper Trainer entries. ( with Gamma accuracy disclaimer ) 

James Cummings - 111 entries, one runner

Ciaron Maher - 111 entries, no runners

Annabel Neasham - 106 entries, no runners

Gai Waterhouse & Adrian Bott - 100 entries for six runners, including the winner.

Chris Waller - 94 entries, one runner.

Ben, JD and Wil Hayes - 84 entries, no runners

Mick Price & Michael Kent Jnr - 78 entries, no runners

Peter and Paul Snowden - 56 entries, two runners

Tony Gollan - 52 entries, no runners

Anthony and Sam Freedman - 41 entries, no runners

Michael Freedman - 36 entries, one runner

Peter Moody & Katherine Coleman - 35 entries, one runner

Tony and Calvin McEvoy - 26 entries, two runners

[Special Agent]

Interesting stats.  I take it there aren't too many breeders who target the Golden Slipper with a two year old they have bred themselves from a mating of their own design?

[Gammalite]

43 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Interesting stats.  I take it there aren't too many breeders who target the Golden Slipper with a two year old they have bred themselves from a mating of their own design?

A great question ! .. 'No mates' or Joe Bloggs have been connected to galloping stables and may have a rough idea of what percentage of their stable was bred by v how many purchased by their stable owners.

Thinking of all the harness stables I know of...... it is about 50/50 but the horses are very cheap compared to thoroughbreds so have less owners per horse. and heaps of the owners have larger properties that hold their mares, foals and spelling horses. 

Thoroughbred Syndication is Absolutely HUGE business here now in Oz, and I feel with the 'extreme' costs associated with leading trainers training your horse , the stables have a much much HIGHER percentage of Purchased horses , than those bred by their clients.  

[Huey]

4 hours ago, nomates said:

And that about sums it up when you have squillions of other people's money to play with . I know of plenty of good judges , not all high profile either , that would have bought just as many if not more good horses .

Money is the liberating factor . 

Absolutely right!

Load of absolute bullocks best buyer in the world, buys NZ stock by our best sires and early maturing Aussie breds that dominate the local product , hardly need to be the best buyer in the world to do that.

This year (NZB) top 3 purchases for the stable Snitzel, IAV &  a Zoustar ... CS will call them geniuses !

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Huey said:

Absolutely right!

Load of absolute bullocks best buyer in the world, buys NZ stock by our best sires and early maturing Aussie breds that dominate the local product , hardly need to be the best buyer in the world to do that.

This year (NZB) top 3 purchases for the stable Snitzel, IAV &  a Zoustar ... CS will call them geniuses

Of they turn out OK does that make the rest mugs?

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Really?  Ellis has the highest black type to purchase ratio of anyone buying at the Magic Millions.  But then @Joe Bloggs for some strange reason doesn't consider that a very good sale to buy from.

 

Of course he does, he brings them to the weakest market to race well bred early maturing stock in, I look forward to seeing how they go in Aus with the big purchases, no where to hide there and they have spent some $$ so we be expecting a Blue Diamond or Slipper winner soon surely CS???

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Jim Green said:

An interesting breakdown would be who has the most successful recouping the purchase price from prizemoney.

Making a profit off these "investments" would be very rare with the high costs involved I'm sure.

It's very rare for any owner to make money.

However isn’t 1 in 5 black type winners from purchases an impressive average?  Any Stud owner who had a Stallion that had a 20% stakes winners would be over the moon.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Huey said:

Of course he does, he brings them to the weakest market to race well bred early maturing stock in, I look forward to seeing how they go in Aus with the big purchases, no where to hide there and they have spent some $$ so we be expecting a Blue Diamond or Slipper winner soon surely CS???

Why would they target the Blue Diamond or Golden Slipper?  Te Akau have built their business on purchasing yearlings that do well as 2yr olds but go on to win Grp races both in NZ and OZ.  The longevity of their horses is quite remarkable.

Compare that to Gai Waterhouse's 2yr olds - the most successful Slipper trainer.  Not only does she burn through a lot of expensive well bred yearlings to get to the Slipper very few go on.

[Joe Bloggs]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

Absolutely right!

Load of absolute bullocks best buyer in the world, buys NZ stock by our best sires and early maturing Aussie breds that dominate the local product , hardly need to be the best buyer in the world to do that.

This year (NZB) top 3 purchases for the stable Snitzel, IAV &  a Zoustar ... CS will call them geniuses !

Have a look at the huge amount of Oz breds that wear the tangerine Huey, and I'm wondering what the ROI on those are compared to NZ breds in that stable........especially the highly questionable obsession with Savabeels? The ROI for Savabeel colts would be interesting as we know his fillies are pretty good, but the boys in general are nowhere near as successful.

[Joe Bloggs]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Really?  Ellis has the highest black type to purchase ratio of anyone buying at the Magic Millions.  But then @Joe Bloggs for some strange reason doesn't consider that a very good sale to buy from.

Of course @nomates neglects to mention that none of the horses Ellis buys are pre-sold I.e. he buys them all with his own finance and on spec.

Have you ever been to a magic millions? It's a giant piss up, mine's bigger than yours, yes there have been some great horses come out of a 1200 horse sale, but, when you get an auditorium full of egos fuelled by top shelf liquor and the best reds on the planet all trying to outbid each other it's better to catch up with old friends outside and muse things racing.

Sydney summer, Easter blue ribbon, and the QTIS sale are far better options, especially as the QTIS bonus scheme especially for fillies is so lucrative it's a no-brainer.

 

 

 

[Joe Bloggs]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

It's very rare for any owner to make money.

However isn’t 1 in 5 black type winners from purchases an impressive average?  Any Stud owner who had a Stallion that had a 20% stakes winners would be over the moon.

NZ Black type has lost it's lustre, it's cache, not valued like it once was, it's now discounted........sadly.

[Chief Stipe]

24 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

NZ Black type has lost it's lustre, it's cache, not valued like it once was, it's now discounted........sadly.

Says you and Nomates.  Wow that sure counts for something...NOT!