When will these AWT's take off? Awapuni trials cancelled... 23-04-2024

[Chief Stipe]

MEETING NEWS

Awapuni Synthetic Trials Cancelled

 

The Awapuni Synthetic Trials scheduled for tomorrow (23-04) have been cancelled due to insufficient entries. 

[Special Agent]

Dress it up as much as you can.  Trainers do not like the AWT'S

[Huey]

People have been paid 1000's to put this together, they were told it they (AWT) were not wanted but spent the $$$ anyway, as it turns out I was wrong as it seems even if they'd put another Strathyr in they would have also messed that up based on the Ellerslie embarrassment. 

[Freda]

They have their place, esp. for training.  What WASN'T acceptable [ IMO ]  was the butchering of a very good facility here at Riccarton to install, the arbitrary closing down of courses to 'rationalise' costs - and force the use of said AWT's for races/trials - and the use of taxpayer funds for their installation.

Cambridge with the climatic conditions they face have, I think, found it invaluable for training, but also, there are still available grass courses in the Waikato.

The CD has faced track closures, forced - again - by edict from head office.  But clearly, the demand for AWT trials is still not there.  And the heavy load placed upon the remaining tracks , some of which just can't cope,  shows how little knowledge those charged with directing the industry really have.

Although Purcell made an ass of himself over the 'I raced 90' rubbish - and cost the industry yet more unnecessary money in bringing the action he did - he was on record of saying he was NOT in favour of forced track closure, but that NZTR would work with any club that chose that option.   Saundry took things much further and left a messy legacy.   By all appearances Sharrock might have just left!

Locally, trainers are getting behind a move to get jumpouts back at Rangiora.  Balcombe has been down for a meeting with locals, is quite OK with this, has given verbal indications to this effect, and the team are just awaiting a formal tick from head office.  When asked why the course had been 'decommissioned', he was unable to give a reason, but indicated he was impressed by the facility as he had never seen it before.

Go figure.

[TAB For Ever]

Of course  grass tracks are the preferred surface for racing/trials etc for 8 months of year but the synthetics viewed by many as having their place to fill a void during the wetter months.

Certainly the Cambridge track getting a lot of use at handling the huge demand for trackwork  etc

The recent cancellation of CD trials no great surprise as there was a big day of trials at Foxton plus well attended jumpouts at Waipuk the week prior .

IMO ,too many trials anyway , back in the day the likes of Grey Way and Show Gate rarely if ever went to trials...they very rare anyway....In recent years many connections get more excited at trials on grass than they do on raceday cos they looking for a 'good offer'.

And the banging on about low numbers at Cambrdge synthetic trials conveniently overlook the fact that most weeks that venue holds jumpouts which many prefer.......so far in April ...4/4 24 heats at jumpouts , 11/4 15 heats, 18/4 17 heats. These heats tend to be small in numbers but many love em and the horses are bouncing off all surfaces with a lot of success !

[Freda]

For once, TAB, I find your post quite agreeable!   However - just one point I must make - in the earlier times you mention, trials were not as they are now.  You are quite right there, but rules, and public perception, were very different then.  It was the norm to go to the races with a novice horse to educate it.  Often a very promising type was 'pulled up' until connections deemed it ready to 'let go' and have a bet.  The public wasn't considered in this practice although most experienced punters would be awake.

Now, that is not considered acceptable, the public must be able to bet with confidence that their choice is, at least, familiar with what it is required to do, and is fit enough.

The number of trials that some trainers give their horses before running, begs the question that they might be 'over the top' before they ever have a raceday start..but that is another topic.

 

[curious]

35 minutes ago, Freda said:

For once, TAB, I find your post quite agreeable!   However - just one point I must make - in the earlier times you mention, trials were not as they are now.  You are quite right there, but rules, and public perception, were very different then.  It was the norm to go to the races with a novice horse to educate it.  Often a very promising type was 'pulled up' until connections deemed it ready to 'let go' and have a bet.  The public wasn't considered in this practice although most experienced punters would be awake.

Now, that is not considered acceptable, the public must be able to bet with confidence that their choice is, at least, familiar with what it is required to do, and is fit enough.

The number of trials that some trainers give their horses before running, begs the question that they might be 'over the top' before they ever have a raceday start..but that is another topic.

 

Which partly explains the clamour from punters when jumpouts in lieu of trials became a thing and there were no results available. I'm thinking of the Levin operation in particular. Now of course detailed results are available.

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

The recent cancellation of CD trials no great surprise as there was a big day of trials at Foxton plus well attended jumpouts at Waipuk the week prior

You ignore the fact that the majority of big CD stables didn't want the AWT. Their  trial and jumpout requirements were already being more than adequately catered for.

They wanted invested in safe and fair turf tracks for racedays I.e. the big dances when the money is up.

White 🐘 

[Doomed]

25 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You ignore the fact that the majority of big CD stables didn't want the AWT. Their  trial and jumpout requirements were already being more than adequately catered for.

They wanted invested in safe and fair turf tracks for racedays I.e. the big dances when the money is up.

White 🐘 

We must always remember that the AWTs were largely gifted to the industry by Winston, although whether someone suggested the idea to him I don't know. NZTR's expressed view was they couldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. His theory was that they would stop abandonments, which as we have seen far too often hasn't happened. There was a high level of corruption with the Riccarton one, paid for as it was by the PGF: the province of Yaldhurst.

Unfortunately, NZTR saw it as a great opportunity to fully or partially close down heaps of tracks they didn't like: Rangiora, Banks Pen, Waimate, Timaru, Oamaru etc around the ChCh one. Ironically all provincial tracks closed down by the PGF. Whether Winston knew this was NZTR's ultimate plan I don't know.

I'm sure a lot of people thought they would be a nice thing to have as an add on. I don't know that they realised the consequences of NZTR wanting them to become dominant in many areas.

[curious]

43 minutes ago, Doomed said:

We must always remember that the AWTs were largely gifted to the industry by Winston, although whether someone suggested the idea to him I don't know. NZTR's expressed view was they couldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. His theory was that they would stop abandonments, which as we have seen far too often hasn't happened. There was a high level of corruption with the Riccarton one, paid for as it was by the PGF: the province of Yaldhurst.

Unfortunately, NZTR saw it as a great opportunity to fully or partially close down heaps of tracks they didn't like: Rangiora, Banks Pen, Waimate, Timaru, Oamaru etc around the ChCh one. Ironically all provincial tracks closed down by the PGF. Whether Winston knew this was NZTR's ultimate plan I don't know.

I'm sure a lot of people thought they would be a nice thing to have as an add on. I don't know that they realised the consequences of NZTR wanting them to become dominant in many areas.

There might also be a saleability issue for horses winning trials on the poly cf. grass?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

We must always remember that the AWTs were largely gifted to the industry by Winston, although whether someone suggested the idea to him I don't know. NZTR's expressed view was they couldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. His theory was that they would stop abandonments, which as we have seen far too often hasn't happened. There was a high level of corruption with the Riccarton one, paid for as it was by the PGF: the province of Yaldhurst.

Unfortunately, NZTR saw it as a great opportunity to fully or partially close down heaps of tracks they didn't like: Rangiora, Banks Pen, Waimate, Timaru, Oamaru etc around the ChCh one. Ironically all provincial tracks closed down by the PGF. Whether Winston knew this was NZTR's ultimate plan I don't know.

I'm sure a lot of people thought they would be a nice thing to have as an add on. I don't know that they realised the consequences of NZTR wanting them to become dominant in many areas.

Let alone neither NZTR or the complicit clubs listening to what the key people in the game wanted - i.e. The Trainers.  Both NZTR AND Metro Club management believe that they know better.  CD Trainers said NO - but did either RACE or NZTR listen?  

I wonder how many trainers were consulted BEFORE the Ellerlise debacle began?  Would any trainer who cared for their horses (they all do care as it is the horse that delivers their income) not have suggested that Ellerslie correct the shape of the course to make the racing safer and fairer?

[Doomed]

37 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Let alone neither NZTR or the complicit clubs listening to what the key people in the game wanted - i.e. The Trainers.  Both NZTR AND Metro Club management believe that they know better.  CD Trainers said NO - but did either RACE or NZTR listen?  

I wonder how many trainers were consulted BEFORE the Ellerlise debacle began?  Would any trainer who cared for their horses (they all do care as it is the horse that delivers their income) not have suggested that Ellerslie correct the shape of the course to make the racing safer and fairer?

I did always wonder why they didn't take the opportunity with such a long shutdown to do any other work that needed to be done, such as a reconfiguration where necessary, perhaps a new chute. I suspect they wanted to be able to sell off as much land as possible so didn't want to use up any additional space.

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I did always wonder why they didn't take the opportunity with such a long shutdown to do any other work that needed to be done, such as a reconfiguration where necessary, perhaps a new chute. I suspect they wanted to be able to sell off as much land as possible so didn't want to use up any additional space.

They still have a crossing as well!!!

[curious]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

They still have a crossing as well!!!

For what? cars? For that kind of money they could have made it a top class training and trial facility as well, like most of the prime Oz tracks.

[TAB For Ever]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

For once, TAB, I find your post quite agreeable!   However - just one point I must make - in the earlier times you mention, trials were not as they are now.  You are quite right there, but rules, and public perception, were very different then.  It was the norm to go to the races with a novice horse to educate it.  Often a very promising type was 'pulled up' until connections deemed it ready to 'let go' and have a bet.  The public wasn't considered in this practice although most experienced punters would be awake.

Now, that is not considered acceptable, the public must be able to bet with confidence that their choice is, at least, familiar with what it is required to do, and is fit enough.

The number of trials that some trainers give their horses before running, begs the question that they might be 'over the top' before they ever have a raceday start..but that is another topic.

 

I feel so honoured...many thanks. It would be a strange old world if everyone was the same !

My posts are from my own experiences so I not saying what people want to hear , plus most people have their strong personal bias only and influenced by a narrow focus .And often there is no right answer anyway so my thoughts as good as the next person.

IMO horses trainers haven't changed too much. They want their horses to run well and try not to 'overcook' them on training track or in trials. They usually run them with improvement expected , sometimes at a distance well short of their optimum.

Horses therefore line up with little or no chance of success and in recent years when stakes seemed to vary a lot even from Saturday to Saturday horses simply were waiting for the bigger stakes. 

Experienced punters recognise this . And expect it even.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

For what? cars? For that kind of money they could have made it a top class training and trial facility as well, like most of the prime Oz tracks.

If it was a training centre they wouldn't have had "bedding-in" problems.

Yep a crossing for cars - not horses.

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Horses therefore line up with little or no chance of success and in recent years when stakes seemed to vary a lot even from Saturday to Saturday horses simply were waiting for the bigger stakes. 

Experienced punters recognise this . And expect it even.

That's why "experienced punters" are more and more wagering on Australian races especially NSW and VIC where there is a lot of exposed form and information.

[TAB For Ever]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

You ignore the fact that the majority of big CD stables didn't want the AWT. Their  trial and jumpout requirements were already being more than adequately catered for.

They wanted invested in safe and fair turf tracks for racedays I.e. the big dances when the money is up.

White 🐘 

I think you ignore a lot more facts around racing than the common racing man such as my self !

Cambridge synthetic IMO has been a huge success and will continue to be...you bang on about cancelled trials in summer months and when the weather OK. Racing on synthetic ,whether lower class Industry days or trials has been most welcomed when inclement weather prevails and this seems to be getting more regular.

Most tracks in NZ...as Messara report stated were stuffed. The tracks and the infrastructure around  it. A no-brainer to close some so time,energy and money can be concentrated on the ones worth saving. !This being done ,albeit at a slow pace as track renovations have struck a few hiccups.

Racing people tend to be very 'my area/track' focus so personal bias always dominated. They never looked at the bigger picture...for 60 years plus everyone agreed too many tracks. Close some but not mine !

And few could ever agree why racing was declining......when Winston demanded answers the 'seriously conflicted' admin people  all blamed a few things but everyone blamed the WEATHER. So good old Winston to impress 10% of the population to protect his status , plus he always liked Rugby,Racing and Whisky/Beer , got his money on the Government funds to build 3 x tracks .Cambridge loved it ...it needed to assist with their domination in racing world , the South Island too cos in recent years they felt frustrated that they had been ignored by North and top Admin and blamed others on their capitulation and fear of missing out [FOMO] again.

So two out of three not bad ....the CD was disintegrating into a mess ,had too many tracks still and they got swept along as enuff money in Govt slush fund for 3 x synthetics......blah blah.

Seems to be a strong CD bias on here among the dissenters...not for me to comment on 150 yrs of conflicted interests.

I like the way we heading , best for future..after decades of indifference !

You don't......and you will keep banging on about it....you will keep ignoring the facts .NZ racing in decline ,we a feeder for our neighbour ,Australia  ,where it still in their DNA and they have the money and population to maintain it !

 

 

[Huey]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Most tracks in NZ...as Messara report stated were stuffed. The tracks and the infrastructure around  it. A no-brainer to close some so time,energy and money can be concentrated on the ones worth saving. !This being done ,albeit at a slow pace as track renovations have struck a few hiccups.

 

Well duh! ... I think we know that more than ever now, some of the tracks the clowns kept open are the stuffed ones , especially the ones with your precious infrastructure built around them in most cases.

As has already been pointed out on this thread, Bernard Saundry nonsense around closing tracks has cost the local industry dearly, very dearly in fact, one of if not the most hopeless administrators we have ever seen in NZ and my word is that saying something!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

As has already been pointed out on this thread, Bernard Saundry nonsense around closing tracks has cost the local industry dearly, very dearly in fact, one of if not the most hopeless administrators we have ever seen in NZ and my word is that saying something!

Purcell was light years ahead of him.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Cambridge synthetic IMO has been a huge success and will continue to be...you bang on about cancelled trials in summer months and when the weather OK.

Really?  Then explain why the Canbridge trials were cancelled and the trainers were happy to trial on a soft track at Taupo in the rain?

[Chief Stipe]

Meanwhile its a Good 4 at one of the Mesara no good tracks Timaru.

[curious]

You can't go 30 years and spend nothing on tracks and expect much different. I can probably think of more tracks that are closed or destined for closure that aren't stuffed than I can of the others being used.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, curious said:

You can't go 30 years and spend nothing on tracks and expect much different. I can probably think of more tracks that are closed or destined for closure that aren't stuffed than I can of the others being used.

I agree.  What's more they could have been used to get the Metro tracks right.  Pukekohe was already stuffed but now it's well and truly stuffed assisting Ellerslie to build a $55m stuffed track.

WTF are these administrators smoking?

[curious]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

I agree.  What's more they could have been used to get the Metro tracks right.  Pukekohe was already stuffed but now it's well and truly stuffed assisting Ellerslie to build a $55m stuffed track.

WTF are these administrators smoking?

Whatever it is, they've been handing it out for decades at NZTR which will be lucky to still exist in 5 years time.