Doomed Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 30 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Meanwhile its a Good 4 at one of the Mesara no good tracks Timaru. 1.09 for 1,200m I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Meanwhile its a Good 4 at one of the Mesara no good tracks Timaru. Thats why it still going......and they got an extra Harness meeting allocated today. Gotta admit it looked like a ploughed paddock in the two races I saw today. 1 min 9 sec......I used to have a watch like that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I'm not so sure that everyone agreed there were too many tracks, TAB man. As far as trainers not being consulted or listened to, that does seem to be par for the course these days as they are even left out of race day talks re calling meetings off. This is a very bad look and I can't help think there may be repercussions for such an ignorant action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 OK lets play the ball, not the man. Reality, not fiction, everyone who had/has a decent understanding of NZ racing, this is over many decades, agreed there were too many thoroughbred racetracks. The same problem then arises, happy to see less tracks...caveat, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT MINE!!! The industry has been playing musical chairs for a very long time and unfortunately the wrong people continued to sit in the reducing number of chairs. Then the corporate model came into play in the early 2000's and that is why we are now in the horseshit. There is a way out but it requires a cleanout of current executive and replace them with thoroughbred nerds who have executive talent and/or potential and importantly are not double dippers. The focus is then on the industry and the very most important part of the equation...the customer. Profit (not a dirty word) must then follow, not dominate. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I note that the meeting today at Washdyke won't be same date next year, I started looking at new Calandar, right from start, Sunday October 6.....Thursday November 21, started thinking new dates but after the Xmas day, nought until Waimate in June. Bit of a waste. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 11 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: Thats why it still going......and they got an extra Harness meeting allocated today. Gotta admit it looked like a ploughed paddock in the two races I saw today. 1 min 9 sec......I used to have a watch like that ! Ploughed paddock? just what were you watching? because it sure as hell couldn't have been Timaru. There were some cows standing knee deep in mud shown on the news, you must have been confused. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 10 hours ago, Wingman said: OK lets play the ball, not the man. Reality, not fiction, everyone who had/has a decent understanding of NZ racing, this is over many decades, agreed there were too many thoroughbred racetracks. The same problem then arises, happy to see less tracks...caveat, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT MINE!!! The industry has been playing musical chairs for a very long time and unfortunately the wrong people continued to sit in the reducing number of chairs. Then the corporate model came into play in the early 2000's and that is why we are now in the horseshit. There is a way out but it requires a cleanout of current executive and replace them with thoroughbred nerds who have executive talent and/or potential and importantly are not double dippers. The focus is then on the industry and the very most important part of the equation...the customer. Profit (not a dirty word) must then follow, not dominate. I don't agree, the assessment by those in the know around tracks was a warning that the number of tracks proposed for being used or the tracks being used wouldn't cope with the demands put on them & they were right. Also the assessment of tracks left for racing was done by location & nepotism nothing more nothing less. I don't buy into all this garbage around crowds on course in NZ , racing is primarily a TV product outside of a few race days in this country, therefore the most important thing is that we can hold race meetings for punters to wager on. One question no one could answer when these tracks were being intentionally mothballed was what do these so called excessive unneeded tracks cost the industry? Where are the proposed cost savings? Most of these venues are happily run by volunteers for their local community. Of course the irony of most of these tracks is they are being used by trainers to prepare their horses for race day , remembering these tracks were unneeded because we had too many. Mark my words if the current fools running the industry continue down the same path, the NZ industry will be in a terminal state in the next few years. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 3 hours ago, Huey said: Mark my words if the current fools running the industry continue down the same path, the NZ industry will be in a terminal state in the next few years. Agree entirely with your last sentence Huey(copied above). Get better executive and tracks currently being used only as training tracks will make a comeback because the calendar will get a proper adjustment 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 If your track/club is not losing money and/or is not relying on industry funding why should you throw your hands in the air and give it all away to those who are already well in the red? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 6 minutes ago, Special Agent said: If your track/club is not losing money and/or is not relying on industry funding why should you throw your hands in the air and give it all away to those who are already well in the red? Exactly. As Reefton pointed out - probably several times - when punters don't want to bet, owners don't want to race and trainers/riders won't come to our track, we'll put the white flag up. But until then, why should we? At the risk of 'harping on' the Coast club that was refused a licence on its own track - Westland - had the capital in kitty to make any improvements deemed necessary without calling on industry money, as well as abundant local help and goodwill. So Greymouth ran a successful ' Westland' day on that circuit but no, not allowed now. And some think that the committee were out of line donating the asset back to the community. FFS. Good on them, I reckon. Far better that, than giving it away to be mismanaged. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 And Riccarton trials scheduled for tomorrow, off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 29 Author Share Posted April 29 Only 13 noms. These Synthetic Track Innovation races will be easy for you @Freda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 On 24/04/2024 at 12:22 PM, TAB For Ever said: I like the way we heading , best for future..after decades of indifference ! HOW can you really tell how well the Industry is travelling when there is so much use of 'smoke and mirrors', where are the fact$ that things are improving? metric of needed 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 20 hours ago, Murray Fish said: HOW can you really tell how well the Industry is travelling when there is so much use of 'smoke and mirrors', where are the fact$ that things are improving? metric of needed Yes. What exactly do you think is improved TAB For Ever? Tracks? Programming? The handicapping system? The attractiveness of the wagering product? Please enlighten us. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 7 hours ago, curious said: Yes. What exactly do you think is improved TAB For Ever? Tracks? Programming? The handicapping system? The attractiveness of the wagering product? Please enlighten us. Good questions for Sharrock too. I wonder if he has been taking trips to Qatar recently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 7 hours ago, curious said: Yes. What exactly do you think is improved TAB For Ever? Tracks? Programming? The handicapping system? The attractiveness of the wagering product? Please enlighten us. All that has really happened is that stakes have gone up because Entain stuck their hand in their pocket and said "here have this." There is no sign that anything significant about the structure of NZ racing has changed other than stakes. And there is no indication that the stakes increases are sustainable. Fields seem to be no better and the little information we get about turnovers doesn't indicate any uplift. Sponsors now appear to be virtually non-existent with Entain and the TAB sponsoring most things. As someone said, smoke and mirrors. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 9 minutes ago, Doomed said: All that has really happened is that stakes have gone up because Entain stuck their hand in their pocket and said "here have this." There is no sign that anything significant about the structure of NZ racing has changed other than stakes. And there is no indication that the stakes increases are sustainable. Fields seem to be no better and the little information we get about turnovers doesn't indicate any uplift. Sponsors now appear to be virtually non-existent with Entain and the TAB sponsoring most things. As someone said, smoke and mirrors. The pressure from ENTAIN must go on the code management soon. The honeymoon must be well and truly over by now. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The pressure from ENTAIN must go on the code management soon. The honeymoon must be well and truly over by now. One bit I don't quite understand is that the trots are still running $8,000 and $10,000 races, and they are about to introduce heaps of unsustainable new meetings in areas where there are no horses and no interest. Other than things like $100,000 Invercargill Cups and a few other high staked group races with six horse fields the trots don't seem to have benefited from Entain's largesse. The gallops meanwhile run $50,000 open races with six horse fields which in no way can be self funding. So the gallops apparently are getting heaps more from Entain than the trots. I have no idea about the dogs. Is this because Entain sees the gallops as providing product for their overseas markets? The whole thing seems hard to analyse at the moment. Certainly nothing like the 80s and 90s when stakes were directly related to turnovers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 4 minutes ago, Doomed said: One bit I don't quite understand is that the trots are still running $8,000 and $10,000 races, and they are about to introduce heaps of unsustainable new meetings in areas where there are no horses and no interest. Other than things like $100,000 Invercargill Cups and a few other high staked group races with six horse fields the trots don't seem to have benefited from Entain's largesse. The gallops meanwhile run $50,000 open races with six horse fields which in no way can be self funding. So the gallops apparently are getting heaps more from Entain than the trots. I have no idea about the dogs. Is this because Entain sees the gallops as providing product for their overseas markets? The whole thing seems hard to analyse at the moment. Certainly nothing like the 80s and 90s when stakes were directly related to turnovers. Yes and it seems that HRNZ were OK to have the Sunday monopoly ended. Wasn't that a concession they got for some other NZTR deal regarding stakes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yes and it seems that HRNZ were OK to have the Sunday monopoly ended. Wasn't that a concession they got for some other NZTR deal regarding stakes? That was weird as well. Many years ago the trots would have kicked up a hell of a stink if the gallops tried to intrude like that. The gallops decided to abandon Sundays several years ago when some half-wit was in charge, in favour initially of the gold mine that would be Monday racing. That didn't end well. Now suddenly the gallops have decided they would like to have another go on Sundays. By my estimate, trots turnovers on Sundays will halve. Even gallops turnovers will drop. A gallops meeting coming off a Friday afternoon racing by themselves to a Sunday competing with three other clubs will see a significant drop in turnover. I presume this has all been pushed Entain who have some great plan in place. I can only imagine the codes have been told to leave Saturdays clear for Aussie racing and told they will all benefit. But, I thought the codes only benefited from betting on overseas races of their own code. So I don't see how the trots benefit from betting on Aussie gallops. I don't recall seeing a single press release from NZTR or HRNZ, or even Entain, explaining why they have made this sudden change to the dates structure. It could be an expensive mistake if it doesn't work. I can only assume they have seen a dramatic drop off in people with strong religious beliefs and feel they want to rush in and fill this gap in the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yes and it seems that HRNZ were OK to have the Sunday monopoly ended. Wasn't that a concession they got for some other NZTR deal regarding stakes? It doesn't really matter much anymore does it because stakes are no longer related to or dependent on turnover/revenue? Only benefit/loss would be the individual club % of oncourse. Edited April 30 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 9 minutes ago, curious said: It doesn't really matter much anymore does it because stakes are no longer related to or dependent on turnover/revenue? Only benefit/loss would be the individual club % of oncourse. But Harness didn't have to compete with Thoroughbred racing on Sundays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: But Harness didn't have to compete with Thoroughbred racing on Sundays. As WD says, I'm assuming it is Entain driven because they want to maximise total turnover across all codes, not individual code turnover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 1 Author Share Posted May 1 1 hour ago, curious said: As WD says, I'm assuming it is Entain driven because they want to maximise total turnover across all codes, not individual code turnover. But then will they still use the % of revenue for each code for the code distribution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But then will they still use the % of revenue for each code for the code distribution? Quite possibly but that will be up to the codes and TABNZ to agree won't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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