When will these AWT's take off? Awapuni trials cancelled... 23-04-2024

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is easy to argue they do have the weight because of the number of horses they have but they have the same issues.  I can imagine the reaction if they did exert their weight and it disadvantaged just ONE small guy once!  Rock and a hard place.  They only way to exert influence is if you ALL 

I was privileged to see an update video for a TA horse in work and it was clearly evident the frustration Mark Walker had with the availability of turf track trials a couple of months back.  Which takes us back to this thread title - AWT trials cancelled because trainers don't won't to trial their horses on them.

Like I say the fools reckon they can get rid of tracks. 

[Chief Stipe]

28 minutes ago, Huey said:

Like I say the fools reckon they can get rid of tracks. 

Who ARE the fools?  It isn't any of the Trainers big or small.

[Freda]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Who ARE the fools?  It isn't any of the Trainers big or small.

Actually,  I can point to several who had exactly that view, but i wont identify any for obvious reasons.     A few years ago, amid all the discussion about myriad things,  there was definitely a consensus that yes,  NZ had too many tracks.  Maintenance of these were the reason NZ racing was on the  back foot.

But it was never clear just how much too many there were, or why.  Compared to where.?

Never did we see costings to bear out such ideas.

 

[curious]

They are trying.

Canterbury Jockey Club Riccarton Park Events Centre
165 Racecourse Road | PO Box 11137, Sockburn
Christchurch 8443 | 03 336 0000 www.riccartonpark.co.nz
Monday 13 May 2024
MEDIA RELEASE
RICCARTON PARK STAKES UPDATE
The racemeeting to be held on the Riccarton Park Polytrack on Friday 12 July 2024 is an added stakes meeting.
So, whilst it is an Industry Day the stake money for each race will be as follows:
✓
Benchmark Rating 75 Hcp 2200 metres $32,000
✓
Benchmark Rating 75 Hcp 1400 metres $32,000
✓
Benchmark Rating 65 Hcp 1600 metres $32,000
✓
Benchmark Rating 65 Hcp 1200 metres $32,000
✓
Maiden SW 2200 metres $22,000
✓
Maiden SW 1600 metres $22,000
✓
Maiden SW 1200 metres $22,000
✓
Three-year-olds SWP 1400 metres $22,000
The meeting was incorrectly advertised at the Industry level stakes of $17,000 in the February edition of the Racing Programme Booklet.
For further information please contact Canterbury Jockey Club Chief Executive Tim Mills 027 430 0208

[curious]

44 minutes ago, Freda said:

Actually,  I can point to several who had exactly that view, but i wont identify any for obvious reasons.     A few years ago, amid all the discussion about myriad things,  there was definitely a consensus that yes,  NZ had too many tracks.  Maintenance of these were the reason NZ racing was on the  back foot.

But it was never clear just how much too many there were, or why.  Compared to where.?

Never did we see costings to bear out such ideas.

 

Don't think there's ever been any such analysis. Certainly never reported or published. Something a report like Messara's should have done if thorough, but no, just an uninformed opinion on which should go and which should stay. Wouldn't stack up in any other business or organisation.

[TAB For Ever]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's disappointing.   One less revenue earning horse going round.  Probably more than one as you would have had more in the pipeline.

What say you @TAB For Ever ?  These are coal face problems and they are affecting large numbers of stakeholders.

I'll bite Chief with a few random thoughts , bearing in mind it not a situation I can change plus I really only like to comment on things I have experienced.

But yes I do have a horse running on the synthetic this week , so I pleased the racing season began for them. It no champ and it not a mudder but it a syndicate horse so not too expensive per person to keep it going.Would not be returning the 25% of running costs which was the average before Entain ! Thanks again Entain for the 'new hope' !

I do feel for the South Island as there looks to be a light calendar down there in weeks ahead. Cos of impending lack of opportunities ahead this weeks Synthetic noms were excellent so I guess it best not to punish several R65 horses who wanted to race ,rather scrub a small sprint field where some horses able to swap into another race on the day !

Just my guess....tough on South but folk are still taking down the 'tried' Northern horses to try luck in South. All the top South stables have runners on the Synthetic ,some many.....Te Akau ,Marsh ,Pitman, Carston ,  TRae etc.

Up North ,no surprise Cambridge trials cancelled with 22 noms. Trials are expensive to run plus 75 horses racing there tomorrow so 100 horses in a week wanting to race /trial on Synthetic.It catching on, a positive .As I stated recently trainers have worked out it much better/easier to go in the regular weekly jumpouts...80-100 horses per week. Last week they had these on the Grass , but thru March/April they on Synthetic. 

NZ Racing has many challenges , if my  small interests are hindered by bad/unfair decisions I'll be seeking out the appropriate person to approach , I won't be banging on about it on line.

Last year I took an interest in a jumper and I can see that is fast becoming an extinct feature in NZ so that could be something I may moan about. I see races cut considerably, one lucky win and you racing against the stars if you not balloted and if you can find a jockey. But I think us participants must take the blame for this....we just didn't commit the horses to it.Most of us love the jumps races , on TV and in the main  we don't bet on them. Can't blame the powers to be for that !

[curious]

Who are "the powers to be"?

Edited May 14, 2024 by curious

[TAB For Ever]

34 minutes ago, curious said:

Don't think there's ever been any such analysis. Certainly never reported or published. Something a report like Messara's should have done if thorough, but no, just an uninformed opinion on which should go and which should stay. Wouldn't stack up in any other business or organisation.

Didn't Messara compare NZ racing with both Ireland and some Australian stakes for number of races , horses , turnover and most importantly the number of tracks. The 'obvious' take out was NZ has far too many tracks.

Plus they were shouting this out 50 -60 years ago. At one stage we had too many horses for the tracks/races supplied so there were non -tote races to help progress horses thru the grades , plus division races !

The bottom line was we didn't have the betting to sustain all the horses and tracks. And those were the days of Clubs being run in the main by volunteers.

Any interview with industry greats eg DJO'Sullivan[ RIP] ,Jim Gibbs etc said the two MAJOR negatives in NZ were the Stakes shortage and the state of the tracks , the latter defaulting to too many tracks as generally there was no money to invest in them. Messara commented on Clubs finances...only a few were in profit and most had little equity as many not freehold.

Historically ,most Clubs had experienced financial woes and 'the powers to be' decided to help those it thought had a future and leave the rest to 'swim or sink' using their own resources/initiatives.

These actions and subsequent performance have been debated to death but here we are today. 

Lotto and extra gambling competition and betting internationally have worsened NZ Racings situation and this likely to worsen.

NZ TAB was technically bankrupt a few years ago. Winnie bailed them out.

Winnie listened to hundreds of excuses , he responded to getting an outsider Messara to 'highlight' the dire situation...Winnie also gifted racing 3 x synthetic tracks from Taxpayers. 

Now Entain have thrown a further lifeline to NZ Racing......probably just a temporary fix but at least they trying.

Your grandkids may only be able to bet on Sports and Overseas racing but the TAB /Entain or Appletote will be forever.

NZ will still breed very good horses and us owners will race for sweepstake races or bag of kumaras.

[TAB For Ever]

2 minutes ago, curious said:

Who are "the powers to be"?

Good question...its a term I've seen mentioned on here  a few times !

Sometimes also referred to as 'suits'.

Some group who we love blaming....a council , a conference or a Board .

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Didn't Messara compare NZ racing with both Ireland and some Australian stakes for number of races , horses , turnover and most importantly the number of tracks. The 'obvious' take out was NZ has far too many tracks.

Plus they were shouting this out 50 -60 years ago. At one stage we had too many horses for the tracks/races supplied so there were non -tote races to help progress horses thru the grades , plus division races !

The bottom line was we didn't have the betting to sustain all the horses and tracks. And those were the days of Clubs being run in the main by volunteers.

Any interview with industry greats eg DJO'Sullivan[ RIP] ,Jim Gibbs etc said the two MAJOR negatives in NZ were the Stakes shortage and the state of the tracks , the latter defaulting to too many tracks as generally there was no money to invest in them. Messara commented on Clubs finances...only a few were in profit and most had little equity as many not freehold.

Historically ,most Clubs had experienced financial woes and 'the powers to be' decided to help those it thought had a future and leave the rest to 'swim or sink' using their own resources/initiatives.

These actions and subsequent performance have been debated to death but here we are today. 

Lotto and extra gambling competition and betting internationally have worsened NZ Racings situation and this likely to worsen.

NZ TAB was technically bankrupt a few years ago. Winnie bailed them out.

Winnie listened to hundreds of excuses , he responded to getting an outsider Messara to 'highlight' the dire situation...Winnie also gifted racing 3 x synthetic tracks from Taxpayers. 

Now Entain have thrown a further lifeline to NZ Racing......probably just a temporary fix but at least they trying.

Your grandkids may only be able to bet on Sports and Overseas racing but the TAB /Entain or Appletote will be forever.

NZ will still breed very good horses and us owners will race for sweepstake races or bag of kumaras.

Nice essay.  But do you really know what's happening at the coalface?

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Good question...its a term I've seen mentioned on here  a few times !

Sometimes also referred to as 'suits'.

Some group who we love blaming....a council , a conference or a Board .

Well who is RESPONSIBLE? 

[curious]

34 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Good question...its a term I've seen mentioned on here  a few times !

Sometimes also referred to as 'suits'.

Some group who we love blaming....a council , a conference or a Board .

Well it's not a term I know. Sounds like some powers you expect to be in place in the future. Just wondered who or what that might be.

[TAB For Ever]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Nice essay.  But do you really know what's happening at the coalface?

No way......

Old Chinese proverb....It better to own the horse .than know how to ride it ! 

 

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

No way......

Old Chinese proverb....It better to own the horse .than know how to ride it ! 

 

But you don't own the racehorse you only have a small share in it.  No control apparently in what happens.

Soon there will be no horse, no trainer, no jockey, no track...

[Doomed]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

Actually,  I can point to several who had exactly that view, but i wont identify any for obvious reasons.     A few years ago, amid all the discussion about myriad things,  there was definitely a consensus that yes,  NZ had too many tracks.  Maintenance of these were the reason NZ racing was on the  back foot.

But it was never clear just how much too many there were, or why.  Compared to where.?

Never did we see costings to bear out such ideas.

 

You only have to look at the crowd sizes at some of the Aussie country meetings and ask yourself why we don't want crowds like that here.

[Special Agent]

18 hours ago, Doomed said:

You only have to look at the crowd sizes at some of the Aussie country meetings and ask yourself why we don't want crowds like that here.

Answer:- Wagering and ownership.

It's in their DNA.  Australians bet more per capita on racing than those in any other country.  One in every 254 Australians own a share in a racehorse.

[Special Agent]

On 5/13/2024 at 5:57 PM, curious said:

Interesting, but perhaps a programming issue rather than an AWT one. The CJC get insufficent noms to run an open 1600 for 40k on Thursday and 8 noms for the 40k open 1200. Yet, they get 32 for the 65 1600, enough to divide it and 26  for the 65 1200, enough for a consolation race. Is the programming team not talking to trainers re demand or what the hell is going on?

Another question is why do they can without leaving open, the 1600 open with 7 noms and not the 1200 with 8 noms?

Why is this regulation not used more regularly to combat a lack or glut of horses in one particular rating band at any given meeting?

All races are subject to the Standard Regulations for Race Meeting Regulations, as set out in the Racing Programme Guide, which includes the right for NZTR or the Club under regulations 15.1 at any time to alter the terms and conditions of any race, including the stakes and/or its grading.

[Chief Stipe]

Approximately one in every 254 Australians own at least a share in a racehorse.

Racehorses with 10+ owners increased from 836 in 2011/12 to 2,572 in 2020/21.

The number of registered syndicates has risen from 7,210 in 19/20 to 10,073 in 21/22

The number of syndicate members has risen from 40,804 in 19/20 to 54,790 in 21/22

There are currently 80+ Authorised Syndicators across Australia.

Prizemoney in Australia has increased by 74% since the 2012/13 season to a massive $855,071,800 in 2021/22.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Special Agent said:

Answer:- Wagering and ownership.

It's in their DNA.  Australians bet more per capita on racing than those in any other country.  One in every 254 Australians own a share in a racehorse.

Used to be in NZ's DNA - every farmer had a tax write-off broodmare and got their local mates in on a share to race the progeny.

[curious]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Approximately one in every 254 Australians own at least a share in a racehorse.

Racehorses with 10+ owners increased from 836 in 2011/12 to 2,572 in 2020/21.

The number of registered syndicates has risen from 7,210 in 19/20 to 10,073 in 21/22

The number of syndicate members has risen from 40,804 in 19/20 to 54,790 in 21/22

There are currently 80+ Authorised Syndicators across Australia.

Prizemoney in Australia has increased by 74% since the 2012/13 season to a massive $855,071,800 in 2021/22.

Interesting numbers. Love to see the comparisons for here.

[TAB For Ever]

3 hours ago, Special Agent said:

Answer:- Wagering and ownership.

It's in their DNA.  Australians bet more per capita on racing than those in any other country.  One in every 254 Australians own a share in a racehorse.

And cos it's still in their DNA the country towns/clubs can still run a Cup day and other meetings throughout the year which attract good crowds and local support. 

The local racing clubs are still relevant to these towns and they market/promote their racedays and the connection is there.

Racing in NZ let its relevance slip years ago and as the demographics started to change the rot set in.

Clubs in general had little equity from 100 years racing and less Money for promotion.

NZ Racing had to step in with promotions like summer Christmas at Racesand 'interislandersummer 'series etc. Clubs had to find grants etc to take part but few were doing it off their own bat. Clubs had even let Memberships drop.

Predictably ,volunteers tired , it made sense to centralise the Admin of several clubs into one area ,further weakening connection locally and many clubs just lay down and let it happen ,the loss if dates etc. And started relyng on Pokies grants to survive at minimum levels.

Yes some clubs do stuff ...like run a farm ,graze and sell animals etc to show a profit but those non-racing  activities really don't promote racing...they for survival.

[TAB For Ever]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Used to be in NZ's DNA - every farmer had a tax write-off broodmare and got their local mates in on a share to race the progeny.

Plus their mates didn't have a lot to spend money on....it was hard to take /spend money outside of NZ . Now people with money to spare/burn must have a holiday home , a boat , and take annual expensive holidays[ some several!] .

And many have tried Racing as something to get into but walked away with a bad experience.

Many never saw their horse let alone heard how it was progressing. Fortunately there are still some great stories eg Winx , 

Sure , communication much better now ,but there still some shockers around both Codes !

[Chief Stipe]

Well compared to the rest of the world NZ ranks 5th in terms of gambling.  Yes Australians lead the pack BUT the difference in NZ is we spend disproportionately more now on other forms of gambling rather than racing.  So I don't think the DNA argument holds up that well.

[Chief Stipe]

35 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

The local racing clubs are still relevant to these towns and they market/promote their racedays and the connection is there.

Whereas the administrative suits in NZ are intent on closing racing down in most of the towns.  BTW how many tracks in Australia don't meet Mesara's unpublished standard?

[Chief Stipe]

36 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Predictably ,volunteers tired , it made sense to centralise the Admin of several clubs into one area ,further weakening connection locally and many clubs just lay down and let it happen ,the loss if dates etc. And started relyng on Pokies grants to survive at minimum levels.

It didn't make sense.  Didn't work for RACE did it?

The Westland Racing Club was surviving quite well.  Why close it down?