new race calendar

[Doomed]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

But surely it doesn't make much sense.

Will there be any accountability for poor decisions? 

 

Galah, you will do your head in if you expect any decisions from HRNZ or NZTR to make sense.

And your already troubled head will be even more stressed if you expect any accountability.

[mikeynz]

One tends to get mixed messages, maximizing turnover was always the main objective but it appears not the case, moving more meetings to create clashes on Sundays suggest that.

I've always questioned all the Southern meetings on Saturdays  after Easter where it tends to get overshadowed by the gallops thus resulting in modest turnover so now what have they done, move most  Southern days , to Thursday to I suggest maybe maximize turnover, nothing seems to make sense.

[TAB For Ever]

On 4/25/2024 at 4:54 PM, Slippery Slope said:

Currently the Crusaders catchment (Canty/Nels/Marl/WC) annual harness racing programme generates (excluding group race subsidies) over $2m of surplus betting revenue over stakes subsidies paid out by HRNZ on those races. This is approx. 10% of the total betting revenue earned on those c.1000 annual races. A viable and sustainable business model!

But then across the whole of the North Island betting revenue is short of HRNZ stakes subsidies paid by over 15%, around $3000 for every race north of Cook Strait ($4000 per race at Manawatu). So effectively mainly Canterbury horses and race meetings enable HRNZ to shift $2m every year to subsidise meetings/ races in the North Island that don’t pay their way.  I would like to think owners/ trainers/drivers in Canterbury understand that they don’t get back 10% of the income their horses generate, but I’m not sure they do.

Now HRNZ have supported Entain to add over 250 races (c.35%) to the 3 NI venues, catering mainly for lower class horses, the same venues that already get a massive per race subsidy from betting revenue generated from the Canterbury harness racing. This seems a bizarre if not ludicrous business strategy to grow harness racing punter support/ interest, putting more meetings on at venues punters already don’t support and make our product even less discernible from greyhounds. We currently have a smart way to provide a real quality lower-class product for our punters- racing at all the Crusaders venues that support Addington when a substantial Canterbury harness racing community deliver big and even fields at fair and often grass tracks. This is where those extra meetings, if really needed, should have been.  

Punters long ago made their choice in the digital age where they would bet remotely- Crusaders country harness racing built around Addington Fridays and country Sundays won, Alexandra Park in particular lost. Physical venue location is virtually irrelevant to the digital punter, they just want the best betting product as they define it. The digital punter bets worldwide on the product they are interested in, and New Zealand harness racing has one maybe two unique selling propositions- Crusaders country supporting Addington, and maybe Auckland or Cambridge/Addington Friday nights. There are so many products offered to bet on in 2024, if you don’t have a USP you will eventually be lost. Harness racing is doing its best to weaken the only major one it has left, and punters across the country stopped supporting Alexandra Park relative to Addington many years ago.

So what can HRNZ do to give themselves a last chance to maintain relative market share in the long term, especially vs thoroughbreds? It has to protect and grow the only areas in the country (Canterbury supported by Southland) where a genuine harness racing community of interest still exists and participation is affordable. It has one mechanism left to do this, the stakes funding model, and apparently all will be revealed next month. If HRNZ does not stop the current cross subsidy out of Canterbury harness racing owners, trainers and drivers pockets to the North Island, and ensure stakes paid across the Crusaders catchment reflects the value of those races to both punters and the industry, then harness racing is on a very slippery slope to the same relative oblivion and market share vs thoroughbreds and greyhounds that Australian harness racing has already reached.

A sustainable harness racing industry doesn’t pass through Alexndra Park and Manawatu. It passes through Addington, Rangiora, Marlborough and the 9 other venues in the Crusaders catchment. HRNZ needs to stop siphoning off $millions every year from the venues that all of punters, owners and trainers support to those that don’t, before it is too late.

Pretty much sums up the situation .....well written indeed !

Currently Harness in the North looks in very bad shape , masked by the recent run of great Group racing and the GRINS races with big Aussie interest. Below that the lower class horses run for low stakes at Cambridge and ATC races are very hard to win with wide ratings bands and big gaps in ability.

Hence horses are quickly sold once they reach their mark,costs appear to be higher in North too.

Alarmingly too is the Clubs benefitting from these increased racing opportunities appear to be doing little to encourage extra horses to fill the fields !  They don't have the money to market themselves ,and seem reluctant to speculate in the hope of accumulating.

Looks like its all up to Entain and they are calling the tunes !

Quite recently ATC were getting hammered by HRNZ cos of their lack performance....their standing in Christchurch was POOR . Less nights , more Thursdays , disadvantaged calendar...on the way out.

Now ,thru Entain they are the great white hope.

Can Harness overall be resuscitated by changes and more meetings......Harness in NZ despite its apparent success on a Sunday when betting competition restricted has overall been going backwards for years in betting figures.

Entain is throwing a lot in Friday nights becoming bigger overall and ramping up interest in it .

And putting  more NZ Galloping on Sunday should increase their overall numbers on a Sunday. 
Harness will need to do their utmost to be noticed that day ...they have had pretty much a free ride on Sundays plus the TAB has had guaranteed First4's etc to increase Aussie interest.

And the extra mid-week days will be hoping to keep the cash registers ticking away in the same way many greyhound venues have in recent times.

Obviously with the greater population in North Entain hoping interest can be stimulated.

Do people want to see Northern Harness crash and burn terminally.......overall would this be a good thing ?

The Average age of top horseman would seem high ,the youngers ones could easily relocate.....Stonewall already has .

The big studs in North ....business as usual.

The shrinking pool of punters.....bet in South and Australia...business as usual.

The staunch Northern fans will wake up one day , similar to many galloping areas in NZ , and ask 'what the hell happened there ?' ATC club members don't speak out and the clubs don't seem to work together.

It all seems pretty obvious.

[Brodie]

28 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Pretty much sums up the situation .....well written indeed !

Currently Harness in the North looks in very bad shape , masked by the recent run of great Group racing and the GRINS races with big Aussie interest. Below that the lower class horses run for low stakes at Cambridge and ATC races are very hard to win with wide ratings bands and big gaps in ability.

Hence horses are quickly sold once they reach their mark,costs appear to be higher in North too.

Alarmingly too is the Clubs benefitting from these increased racing opportunities appear to be doing little to encourage extra horses to fill the fields !  They don't have the money to market themselves ,and seem reluctant to speculate in the hope of accumulating.

Looks like its all up to Entain and they are calling the tunes !

Quite recently ATC were getting hammered by HRNZ cos of their lack performance....their standing in Christchurch was POOR . Less nights , more Thursdays , disadvantaged calendar...on the way out.

Now ,thru Entain they are the great white hope.

Can Harness overall be resuscitated by changes and more meetings......Harness in NZ despite its apparent success on a Sunday when betting competition restricted has overall been going backwards for years in betting figures.

Entain is throwing a lot in Friday nights becoming bigger overall and ramping up interest in it .

And putting  more NZ Galloping on Sunday should increase their overall numbers on a Sunday. 
Harness will need to do their utmost to be noticed that day ...they have had pretty much a free ride on Sundays plus the TAB has had guaranteed First4's etc to increase Aussie interest.

And the extra mid-week days will be hoping to keep the cash registers ticking away in the same way many greyhound venues have in recent times.

Obviously with the greater population in North Entain hoping interest can be stimulated.

Do people want to see Northern Harness crash and burn terminally.......overall would this be a good thing ?

The Average age of top horseman would seem high ,the youngers ones could easily relocate.....Stonewall already has .

The big studs in North ....business as usual.

The shrinking pool of punters.....bet in South and Australia...business as usual.

The staunch Northern fans will wake up one day , similar to many galloping areas in NZ , and ask 'what the hell happened there ?' ATC club members don't speak out and the clubs don't seem to work together.

It all seems pretty obvious.

Personally I am not believing that Entain is this White Knight for harness racing in NZ!

Some of their decision making has been very poor but then they are a ruthless gambling agency and we should be expecting that!

There is no sense whatsoever in several of the decisions that they have made, but the TAB and their employees wont be criticising anything as they will be fearful for their jobs!!

Not sure where the spokesman for Entain is hiding and it would make sense to Brodie to have appointed a mouthpiece for its NZ TAB!

We are getting nothing out of anyone as to the reasons for many of their crazy actions but they don't care as they have control of the TAB in NZ for 25 YEARS!!!!!

The new betting platform that is now coming out of AUSTRALIA has nothing at all about improving the service for NZ and it hasnt!

It is all about taking it out of NZ and being run out of Australia for 25 YEARS!

 

[Slippery Slope]

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

Personally I am not believing that Entain is this White Knight for harness racing in NZ!

Some of their decision making has been very poor but then they are a ruthless gambling agency and we should be expecting that!

There is no sense whatsoever in several of the decisions that they have made, but the TAB and their employees wont be criticising anything as they will be fearful for their jobs!!

Not sure where the spokesman for Entain is hiding and it would make sense to Brodie to have appointed a mouthpiece for its NZ TAB!

We are getting nothing out of anyone as to the reasons for many of their crazy actions but they don't care as they have control of the TAB in NZ for 25 YEARS!!!!!

The new betting platform that is now coming out of AUSTRALIA has nothing at all about improving the service for NZ and it hasnt!

It is all about taking it out of NZ and being run out of Australia for 25 YEARS!

 

We can't expect a global bookmaker that just wants product to fill wall to wall digital and video Australasian channels to care very much if at all as to where that product comes from. They are only interested in best net profit for them being a function of not just gross betting revenue but also achieving the lowest cost of production NZ wide of that digital/video product. Of course Auckland , Hamilton and Palmerston North are already the 3 centres where the bulk of their infrastructure, equipment and staff are already located, so the more meetings across all 3 codes that those teams, equipment and building infrastructure costs can be spread over, the more Entain make per meeting. They will accept the upweighted guaranteed payouts to the codes for 4 more years knowing they eventually "fix" that problem too.

So what can HRNZ do to counterbalance the seemingly inexorable decline in betting revenue share that this behaviour by Entain will cause? They have only two real weapons in their armoury:

Firstly- ensure stakes subsidies failrly closely aligns to the meetings which hold the most punters' interest and loyalty in tandem with the investment in the product itself (horses in sufficent numbers!) from our owners. In that way Entain's apparent strategy to deliver an inferior product for punters at a lower cost/ better profit outcome for them can be at least partially offset by harness racing maximising the investment it controls in its best product and

Secondly- once it has sorted out the fairest and most competitive stakes subsidy structure, realign its handficapping system so that the consequent large stakes differential that will arise between meetings North Island vs South Island meetings for current R55 and below horses is reflected in clearly differing points penalties/ drop backs relative to actual stakes paid. Manawatu wins already are truly worth far less points handicap penalties than Rangiora, ad when we subsidise Manawatu much more closely to the actual betting revenue they deliver to the industry this diffeence will be far greater- the handicapping system has to reflect this.

None of the above may sustain existing stakes levels in 4 more years, but at least over that time HRNZ will have done their best to look after the 80% of the industry who will likely still be there once Entain's commitment period ends, and they won't still be pretending there is enough money in the kitty to fund the 100% of the industry as it is today.  

 

[TAB For Ever]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

Personally I am not believing that Entain is this White Knight for harness racing in NZ!

Some of their decision making has been very poor but then they are a ruthless gambling agency and we should be expecting that!

There is no sense whatsoever in several of the decisions that they have made, but the TAB and their employees wont be criticising anything as they will be fearful for their jobs!!

Not sure where the spokesman for Entain is hiding and it would make sense to Brodie to have appointed a mouthpiece for its NZ TAB!

We are getting nothing out of anyone as to the reasons for many of their crazy actions but they don't care as they have control of the TAB in NZ for 25 YEARS!!!!!

The new betting platform that is now coming out of AUSTRALIA has nothing at all about improving the service for NZ and it hasnt!

It is all about taking it out of NZ and being run out of Australia for 25 YEARS!

 

In recent months since Entain deal struck and agreed on....the MD of NZ Entain  Cameron Rodger has been very open ,approachable and highly visible . Formerly he was high up in NZTAB  so has the grounding. The TAB boss I think is quite new as a change made in 2023.

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

In recent months since Entain deal struck and agreed on....the MD of NZ Entain  Cameron Rodger has been very open ,approachable and highly visible . Formerly he was high up in NZTAB  so has the grounding. The TAB boss I think is quite new as a change made in 2023.

Have we heard from this Cameron Rodger?

Where has he been visible?

Has he come out and spoken about the changes that have occurred, TAB?

I cant’ve been warching?????

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Slippery Slope said:

 

So what can HRNZ do to counterbalance the seemingly inexorable decline in betting revenue share that this behaviour by Entain will cause? They have only two real weapons in their armoury:

Firstly- ensure stakes subsidies failrly closely aligns to the meetings which hold the most punters' interest and loyalty in tandem with the investment in the product itself (horses in sufficent numbers!) from our owners. In that way Entain's apparent strategy to deliver an inferior product for punters at a lower cost/ better profit outcome for them can be at least partially offset by harness racing maximising the investment it controls in its best product and

Secondly- once it has sorted out the fairest and most competitive stakes subsidy structure, realign its handficapping system so that the consequent large stakes differential that will arise between meetings North Island vs South Island meetings for current R55 and below horses is reflected in clearly differing points penalties/ drop backs relative to actual stakes paid. Manawatu wins already are truly worth far less points handicap penalties than Rangiora, ad when we subsidise Manawatu much more closely to the actual betting revenue they deliver to the industry this diffeence will be far greater- the handicapping system has to reflect this.

  

 

Are you letting HRNZ leadership off the hook? No doubt just trying to be diplomatic i suppose as youv'e mentioned that before.

But we shouldn't stop reminding ourselves,Phil holden,head of HRNZ, clearly stated in his press release that the new dates were a result of HRNZ "working in close partnership"..."Joint strategic plan"...this calendar and the upcoming strategic initiatives.. designed to breath fresh life and confidence into harness racing". 

Clearly HRNZ is promoting the extra dates in the north island at the expense of the south island, as being a joint decision.

joint meaning they shared in the decision making for the extra meetings. 

so my point is the first thing that should be addressed is the expectation of common sense decision making by HRNZ. Entain you can understand where they are coming from.

so when you say "they(HRNZ) have only 2 real weapons in their armoury",i think you need to include basic common sense decison making in there as well,really its the number 1 weapon.  

Obviously your 2 points are very important and from what you write,perhaps hrnz needs someone with your common sense involved in decision making..

 

Edited May 7 by the galah

[Slippery Slope]

46 minutes ago, the galah said:

Are you letting HRNZ leadership off the hook? No doubt just trying to be diplomatic i suppose as youv'e mentioned that before.

But we shouldn't stop reminding ourselves,Phil holden,head of HRNZ, clearly stated in his press release that the new dates were a result of HRNZ "working in close partnership"..."Joint strategic plan"...this calendar and the upcoming strategic initiatives.. designed to breath fresh life and confidence into harness racing". 

Clearly HRNZ is promoting the extra dates in the north island at the expense of the south island, as being a joint decision.

joint meaning they shared in the decision making for the extra meetings. 

so my point is the first thing that should be addressed is the expectation of common sense decision making by HRNZ. Entain you can understand where they are coming from.

so when you say "they(HRNZ) have only 2 real weapons in their armoury",i think you need to include basic common sense decison making in there as well,really its the number 1 weapon.  

Obviously your 2 points are very important and from what you write,perhaps hrnz needs someone with your common sense involved in decision making..

 

Agree the HRNZ 24 April press release wasn't full of clarity, and had some worrying comments re looking for "uniform application of national racing and programming policies to ensure like-for-like racing."  which would seem counter intuitive to the common sense generally discussed in this forum. But we have to be fair and await the opportunity they have in "...releasing our strategic plan in mid-May which underpins and supports the revamped calendar ". Plenty have used the phrase " Hope is not a strategy" over the years, but you never know, we could be pleasantly surprised!  

[TAB For Ever]

21 hours ago, Slippery Slope said:

Agree the HRNZ 24 April press release wasn't full of clarity, and had some worrying comments re looking for "uniform application of national racing and programming policies to ensure like-for-like racing."  which would seem counter intuitive to the common sense generally discussed in this forum. But we have to be fair and await the opportunity they have in "...releasing our strategic plan in mid-May which underpins and supports the revamped calendar ". Plenty have used the phrase " Hope is not a strategy" over the years, but you never know, we could be pleasantly surprised!  

Slippery slope , you write a lot of sense.

I just hope that the Chief doesn't take a dislike to you , or some of his 'tight-five' snipers from Galloping come after you !

[Murray Fish]

26 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

 some of his 'tight-five' snipers from Galloping come after you !

 

Asking for a friend at the Slowlearnersclub:  Who be that FIVE?

[TAB For Ever]

3 hours ago, Murray Fish said:

 

Asking for a friend at the Slowlearnersclub:  Who be that FIVE?

Toss the line out Murray but I not biting !

You getting close I might add !

[mikeynz]

On 4/25/2024 at 9:23 PM, Spatchcock said:

Yes I am aware, and the Manawatu meeting slated for two days later (on the 21st) will also be moved to Otaki giving them a two-day meeting to themselves.

BUT, they will also still run the dual code day on Jan 6 at a smaller level, probably four or five races as has been the case recently, even though it doesn't currently say either of those things in the calendar.

You can also expect a couple of meetings at Thames to be announced sooner rather than later, too.

So when is this great announcement being announced.

[Doomed]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:43 PM, TAB For Ever said:

Toss the line out Murray but I not biting !

You getting close I might add !

There is a reserves bench. Murray could sit on that if he keeps up his high standards.

[Spatchcock]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

So when is this great announcement being announced.

John Mooney (HRNZ) met with Cambridge two weeks ago to hash it out. I guess the timeline is up to them. The next step will be Entain's tech team making sure they can provide HD coverage and HRNZ's track manager assessing it.
The course was very overgrown the last time I drove past.

[mikeynz]

19 minutes ago, Spatchcock said:

John Mooney (HRNZ) met with Cambridge two weeks ago to hash it out. I guess the timeline is up to them. The next step will be Entain's tech team making sure they can provide HD coverage and HRNZ's track manager assessing it.
The course was very overgrown the last time I drove past.

It does seem a bit weird having Kapati racing same day as Marlborough, they are close together and yet despite there being 365 days in every year they both race same day.

Having said that it seems odd all the extra Sundays competing with harness clubs.

The experts think they know best, maybe they do.

[mikeynz]

On 4/25/2024 at 9:23 PM, Spatchcock said:

Yes I am aware, and the Manawatu meeting slated for two days later (on the 21st) will also be moved to Otaki giving them a two-day meeting to themselves.

BUT, they will also still run the dual code day on Jan 6 at a smaller level, probably four or five races as has been the case recently, even though it doesn't currently say either of those things in the calendar.

You can also expect a couple of meetings at Thames to be announced sooner rather than later, too.

As at July 3 12 15pm still no sign of racing at Otaki duel meeting or Thames, so when will the great announcement be coming?

[Spatchcock]

I think if you go outside at the next full moon and chant SEMAHT! three times, it will materialise.

[Blackie]

Keep you eyes & ears open next couple of days, exciting times ahead.

[Spatchcock]

On 3/07/2024 at 12:15 PM, mikeynz said:

As at July 3 12 15pm still no sign of racing at Otaki duel meeting or Thames, so when will the great announcement be coming?

You will note this has been updated to three Otaki meetings in January. 
https://infohorse.hrnz.co.nz/datahrs/calendar/Raceday/2025/dates_january2025.htm
My mail is the Thames plans are slowly losing steam due to red tape but its not dead in the water.

[mikeynz]

3 hours ago, Spatchcock said:

You will note this has been updated to three Otaki meetings in January. 
https://infohorse.hrnz.co.nz/datahrs/calendar/Raceday/2025/dates_january2025.htm
My mail is the Thames plans are slowly losing steam due to red tape but its not dead in the water.

Do you not think perhaps the gap between January 2 and 6 might deter some  from further afield,

With Kapati racing Same day as Marlborough on 19th that more than likely would reduce South Islanders too, maybe to zero, a wee bit odd, time will tell, it's all going to be very interesting how the new calendar works out.

I think I stated once Southland had 2  days less but I think they have just juggled things around a bit more, hard to keep up sometimes.