Nowornever Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 20 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Ok, but as you won on quinellas and trifectas…. how do the bookies come into it? If they price one up wrong at 5 or 6 a place when it should be 2.50 it lifts the exotics up quite a bit as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 8 hours ago, Nowornever said: If they price one up wrong at 5 or 6 a place when it should be 2.50 it lifts the exotics up quite a bit as well. So you had up to 150 bets, turned $100 into $6k in 4 weeks? Why would anyone ban you, they are getting a high takeout rate everytime you take a trifecta?? And why would you bother to even bet on Aus on this type of bet, as they pay NZ tab divs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 2 hours ago, Newmarket said: Why would anyone ban you, they are getting a high takeout rate everytime you take a trifecta?? Uh? @Nowornever was winning - the takeout on his winning bets was negative! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 2 hours ago, Newmarket said: So you had up to 150 bets, turned $100 into $6k in 4 weeks? Why would anyone ban you, they are getting a high takeout rate everytime you take a trifecta?? Yes Ladbrokes and a number of other bookmakers I think do not bet into a tote pool for Trifectas. Even though they use the Victoria dividends as the price there would be no takeout. If you win anything it is off their bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 3 hours ago, Newmarket said: And why would you bother to even bet on Aus on this type of bet, as they pay NZ tab divs? Because I can double dip on the same trifecta dividend. As an example lets say I get 1 dollar worth of a 1000 trifecta off four different bookmakers then I am getting $4000 but if I tried to get four dollars of the trifecta on the NZ pool that only has 4000 in it the dividend would only be $500 or less I am only going to get $2000 if I am lucky. Probably another one of the reasons Ladbrokes is getting rid of the NZ customers in Aussie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 5 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Because I can double dip on the same trifecta dividend. As an example lets say I get 1 dollar worth of a 1000 trifecta off four different bookmakers then I am getting $4000 but if I tried to get four dollars of the trifecta on the NZ pool that only has 4000 in it the dividend would only be $500 or less I am only going to get $2000 if I am lucky. Probably another one of the reasons Ladbrokes is getting rid of the NZ customers in Aussie. What difference would it make if you took a Fixed Odds Trifecta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What difference would it make if you took a Fixed Odds Trifecta? Fixed odds trifecta bets are a waste of time, the algorithm has them priced about 75% of what they would usually pay or less sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 41 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Fixed odds trifecta bets are a waste of time, the algorithm has them priced about 75% of what they would usually pay or less sometimes. By "usually pay" you mean on the tote? So it the Fixed Odds algorithm linked to the tote pool? I.e. if the tote pool is small then the FO return correspondingly will be small? I presume they only ban those playing solely the Fixed Odds as they already clip the ticket on the tote pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: By "usually pay" you mean on the tote? So it the Fixed Odds algorithm linked to the tote pool? I.e. if the tote pool is small then the FO return correspondingly will be small? I presume they only ban those playing solely the Fixed Odds as they already clip the ticket on the tote pool. Fixed odds trifectas are not linked to the tote pool for trifectas but the algorithm errs on the side of caution and works out a trifecta dividend 30-40% lower than it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: By "usually pay" you mean on the tote? So it the Fixed Odds algorithm linked to the tote pool? I.e. if the tote pool is small then the FO return correspondingly will be small? I presume they only ban those playing solely the Fixed Odds as they already clip the ticket on the tote pool. Yes never heard of people getting banned for tote betting. Fixed odds is a different story as any consistent winnings by customers comes straight off their bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 1 hour ago, Nowornever said: Yes never heard of people getting banned for tote betting. Fixed odds is a different story as any consistent winnings by customers comes straight off their bottom line. No one will be banned from tote wagering. Would be interested to know how many gallops punters were restricted! I was told there were none a few years ago, might be different now but the harness punters ate the ones that are victimised! People I speak with, can not believe that the TAB actually restrict some punters to pathetic amounts to win, and think it is so wrong! Many of these people will not ever be betting with the NZTAB!, Yes there are some successful punters but putting restraints on winning punters has major consequences for the industry! Come on Entain, how about coming out and advise us what your plans are for the racing industry after the 2 years us up and then when the stake money guarantee ends? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Uh? @Nowornever was winning - the takeout on his winning bets was negative! You numpty, he didn’t win off every one of those 150 bets …. So the bets he didn’t win the tab take out heaps, isn’t it 27%? How anyone can win long term betting on exotic bets is beyond me. Funny how a couple on here constantly state they are banned, but never post any certs on here 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 11 hours ago, Newmarket said: You numpty, he didn’t win off every one of those 150 bets I realise you haven't got a clue about much especially wagering however @Nowornever won overall and his losing bets are irrelevant. The takeout comes out of the total tote pool for each bet therefore what is affected is the final price I.e. dividend. So arguably he got a dividend less 27%. But that 27% covers cost of sales and revenue. If the TAB dropped the takeout to 22% @Nowornever would have got 7% more in winnings. He still would have lost all his stake on his losing bets as that stake was divided between the TAB and the winners. 11 hours ago, Newmarket said: How anyone can win long term betting on exotic bets is beyond me Yes we understand it would be beyond you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 11 hours ago, Newmarket said: You numpty, he didn’t win off every one of those 150 bets …. So the bets he didn’t win the tab take out heaps, isn’t it 27%? How anyone can win long term betting on exotic bets is beyond me. Funny how a couple on here constantly state they are banned, but never post any certs on here 🤔 That’s right, no one can be a winning punter, so tell that to the TAB and get our restrictions dropped ASAP! I would’ve thought it pretty obvious why we dont tip on a public forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 12 hours ago, Newmarket said: Funny how a couple on here constantly state they are banned, but never post any certs on here 🤔 Again that statement highlights your ignorance. It would be near impossible to post a "cert" on BOAY unless you ignored value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I realise you haven't got a clue about much especially wagering however @Nowornever won overall and his losing bets are irrelevant. The takeout comes out of the total tote pool for each bet therefore what is affected is the final price I.e. dividend. So arguably he got a dividend less 27%. But that 27% covers cost of sales and revenue. If the TAB dropped the takeout to 22% @Nowornever would have got 7% more in winnings. He still would have lost all his stake on his losing bets as that stake was divided between the TAB and the winners. Yes we understand it would be beyond you. Maybe it’s you struggling here… let’s face it, the facts here are a little flimsy… maybe 100-150 bets, starting with 10% Quin, 90% Trifecta, started with $100 turns into $6000. Only you Chief can even try to speculate on this, how much was he betting, how much was his collects, if you don’t know net info how can you even discuss. Talking to my Sportsbet rep, he has told me several times that they mostly ban punters from overseas for betting after race has started, or arbing. Did say they look at NZ punters betting on trifectas on Sportsbet, but overall it’s not the reason they close Accs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 19 hours ago, Brodie said: Many of these people will not ever be betting with the NZTAB!, are these people restricted punters ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 29 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Maybe it’s you struggling here… let’s face it, the facts here are a little flimsy… maybe 100-150 bets, starting with 10% Quin, 90% Trifecta, started with $100 turns into $6000. Only you Chief can even try to speculate on this, how much Ask your Sportsbet Rep to explain. @Nowornever 's stake was $100. He collected $6,000 in four weeks. His net return was $5,900. He may have turned over that $100 quite a few times but that doesn't change his net winnings over the 4 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Ask your Sportsbet Rep to explain. @Nowornever 's stake was $100. He collected $6,000 in four weeks. His net return was $5,900. He may have turned over that $100 quite a few times but that doesn't change his net winnings over the 4 weeks. Forget turning $100 into $6000, it’s the turnover the point here. So what’s your view if he turned over $30k in the 150 bets? What’s that worth to tab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 On 5/23/2024 at 7:09 PM, Brodie said: That is a no no with gambling agencies! They are not there to let punters take money off them, we only welcome losing punters and we will give them bonus bets to keep you with us. I lasted a few months and then just didnt allow any bets on harness racing. Think you're right Brodster. it seems to be with Ladbrokes that not just kiwi's but any Winning party is frowned upon if the collects get too big. You and NoworNever sound excellent form with your bets so were shut down quickly. ENTAIN owns and runs Ladbrokes and Sportingbet agencies here so maybe they have similar rules for them. About 2 years ago my Son had signed up with Ladbrokes as a newbie, and he wanted a good tip so I gave him a good looking runner (probably a Purdon one lol ) and his $100 ew bet netted about $1k . Account promptly showed 'suspended' and he couldn't place another bet?. very silly of them really. so he never did. Their loss really . I think the Ladbrokes computer hates winning bets and reacts with a suspension if someone wins without losing. NoworNevers 'strike-rate' number of hitting the Q's and Tri's must of passed the cut-off point of being 'Too many collects' as well . so they cut him off. Is hard to work out Why Ladbrokes wants to cut All kiwi's though. since they (Entain) has just moved into the NZ TAB there. Do they just want them ALL (you kiwi blokes ) betting At the NZ TAB to keep track of you all or something ? I have used the Sportsbet company for quite some time and have no problems. (with 100 ew anyway) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 I had always though the geo blocking thing would have had something to do with ladbrokes approach to nz customers. Ladbrokes is owned by entain isn't it. last year entain stated they would give the government an extra $100 million if they were to geo block overseas betting sites,so that nz customers could only bet on the nz tab. The nz government at the time indicated they intended to. I have read that would be quite difficult to do. but with winston as racing minister maybe racing may get a helping hand if it happened. But it would have to be done sooner rather than later if that were the case. So whats happening,if anything about that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 32 minutes ago, the galah said: I had always though the geo blocking thing would have had something to do with ladbrokes approach to nz customers. Ladbrokes is owned by entain isn't it. last year entain stated they would give the government an extra $100 million if they were to geo block overseas betting sites,so that nz customers could only bet on the nz tab. The nz government at the time indicated they intended to. I have read that would be quite difficult to do. but with winston as racing minister maybe racing may get a helping hand if it happened. But it would have to be done sooner rather than later if that were the case. So whats happening,if anything about that. Here’s a list of the countries that are Geo Blocking…. surely looking at this list NZ would be the laughing stock of the world if we joined. If NZ did go the Geo Blocking way, how does that affect those buying goods from overseas, eg Temu, ebay, Amazon ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 23 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Here’s a list of the countries that are Geo Blocking…. surely looking at this list NZ would be the laughing stock of the world if we joined. If NZ did go the Geo Blocking way, how does that affect those buying goods from overseas, eg Temu, ebay, Amazon ? They just target the gambling sites. i'm no expert but i think they work out where you are based on your internet and if that said you were from nz ,the internet providers would have been told by our government to deny access to overseas gambling websites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 Might be the reason accounts are closing. Be interesting to see what Sportsbet do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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