Bring Back Claiming Races!

[Brodie]

We seem to have a lot of racing in the canterbury area nowadays, and would love to see the claiming races back in play!

Michael House you would think could just about provide a whole field by the amount of claiming type horses he enters!

Think it would give a bit of variety to the racing at Addington and would give the opportunity for owners to buy readymade horses!

There are many horses that would be improved by changing trainers and drivers and also give current owners cash in their pockets rather than out!

The claiming races would be better punting on than the Amateur ones surely?

 

[Westview]

30 minutes ago, Brodie said:

We seem to have a lot of racing in the canterbury area nowadays, and would love to see the claiming races back in play!

Michael House you would think could just about provide a whole field by the amount of claiming type horses he enters!

Think it would give a bit of variety to the racing at Addington and would give the opportunity for owners to buy readymade horses!

There are many horses that would be improved by changing trainers and drivers and also give current owners cash in their pockets rather than out!

The claiming races would be better punting on than the Amateur ones surely?

 

I can't see any reason you couldn't put a claiming price on any horse in any race .probably not so good for gavelhouse but would definitely spark some interest in ownership which we so badly need.

 

 

[Spatchcock]

I would like to see them back too, but with a new rule that claimed horses cannot be exported for 90 days.

[the galah]

I don't think they would get much support myself..

They haven't in the past,so why would they now.

I do see some benefit in having a system where people can put a claiming price on their horse.And the handicappers and race programmers could put conditions on a race which would allow horses with a particular claiming price to start in.That did work in the past to a degree.

Having said that ,the handicapping system has been stuffed for ages and they haven't changed it.So,given the same people would be having the input around what races the claimers went in,who would have much confidence in them working claimers out right.

Edited May 28 by the galah

[Brodie]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

I don't think they would get much support myself..

They haven't in the past,so why would they now.

I do see some benefit in having a system where people can put a claiming price on their horse.And the handicappers and race programmers could put conditions on a race which would allow horses with a particular claiming price to start in.That did work in the past to a degree.

Having said that ,the handicapping system has been stuffed for ages and they haven't changed it.So,given the same people would be having the input around what races the claimers went in,who would have much confidence in them working claimers out right.

There are a lot of horses that arent paying their way and may not be saleable overseas.

Put s claiming price on it and get rid to someone else!

 

[the galah]

19 minutes ago, Brodie said:

There are a lot of horses that arent paying their way and may not be saleable overseas.

Put s claiming price on it and get rid to someone else!

 

But where on the scale of priorities for someone having a racehorse, does paying their way sit?

When you think about it ,having an understanding of owners expectations and priorities, should be an answer everyone should know.

I suppose we all have different views on what motivates us.

[Newmarket]

I think we are over the saturated low class racing. Bad enough the amateur racing, then we have claiming too? 

Maybe look at handicapping first, maybe first couple wins penalty free

[Doomed]

12 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

I think we are over the saturated low class racing. Bad enough the amateur racing, then we have claiming too? 

Maybe look at handicapping first, maybe first couple wins penalty free

We are hardly going to get more quality racing if horses get two penalty free wins. There are already heaps of penalty free options. The hardest thing in harness racing is getting horses through the grades to fill up tighter grade fields. I cringe every time I look at a harness meeting and see maidens racing for $2,000 more than winners of 3.4.5 races. It always looks to me like a very socialist sport where winners and successful horses are frowned upon. I always think harness people must all vote Labour or similar parties.

[Brodie]

17 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

I think we are over the saturated low class racing. Bad enough the amateur racing, then we have claiming too? 

Maybe look at handicapping first, maybe first couple wins penalty free

Who is over the low class racing?

Low class racing is what is popular for Brodie!

 

[Gammalite]

5 hours ago, the galah said:

I do see some benefit in having a system where people can put a claiming price on their horse.And the handicappers and race programmers could put conditions on a race which would allow horses with a particular claiming price to start in.That did work in the past to a degree.

Loved em'  . great racing for the older horses that have reached their mark. There's not enough of those around any more (sold off from NZ before reaching their best Mark) and as you say the ratings system makes it hard to 'Grade ' them.

Owners loved having a value on their horses , and racing opponents of exactly the same class week in , week out for decades. we used to have 2 claimers every Saturday night for years. ALL the runners were horses that had won all their country races down to Metro class , and then a couple of Quallies. (We still run Metro Quallies every Sat) and a 20 and 21 class Metro race.

Then there's nothing for them . Only FFA's ,but fast horses like TURN IT UP these days (past Akld Cup winner) dominate those every time . so the old Claimers were 2 seconds slower generally and No Chance in a FFA . but give those Claiming races a real hurry up though.

Luke and Todd and Andrew McCarthy 'cut their teeth' driving in the claimers at Albion for years to become the amazing drivers they are (2 are in America now taking it up to Dexter) Todd won about 30 races (from his first 50 wins ) with the same old claiming horse. Can't think of it's name for the mo as was about 20 -25 years ago I spose.  i'll think of it shortly.

Those Claimers were the Highlight of the night for me. Brave old horses that had won heaps but FFA's just a bit slick for them. these claim races were just dandy

[Gammalite]

12 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Luke and Todd and Andrew McCarthy 'cut their teeth' driving in the claimers at Albion for years to become the amazing drivers they are (2 are in America now taking it up to Dexter) Todd won about 30 races (from his first 50 wins ) with the same old claiming horse.

Well not quite 30 for Todd, but for all the McCarthy's at Albion for long time . 

NICKY'S FALCON  = 324 starts for 62 wins (mostly claimers) Andrew learned to drive on him first, the dad John took over a while , then Luke learned how to win races on the FALCON for a long time , before finally Todd began his driving career around 2010 it was .

What a Family !! what a horse !! fantastic stuff. gotta love harness racing 🥰

Hey Todd just bought up his 1000th USA winner since going there 2020. whatta champ driver !! 

Here's a bit compliments of the National Trotguide

Aussie adds another USA highlight to resume

May 18, 2024 National Trotguide

TIME has seemed to pass quickly for Australian reinsman Todd McCarthy since his arrival in the U.S. in the summer of 2020, but he’s certainly made the most of it.

McCarthy has been a Rising Star Award recipient, captured a Hambletonian, North America Cup and Breeders Crown, sat behind at least one Dan Patch Award winner every season, and, just this past weekend, notched his 1,000th victory in North America.

“It’s been a bit of a whirlwind of three-and-a-half years now, it’s been so much,” McCarthy said. “It’s been everything I hoped for, but beyond anything I would have expected. I feel like it’s gone really fast, but I think anytime you’re having fun, time does fly by.”

McCarthy, who won 1109 races in Australia, got his 1000th triumph in America with Endofstory at The Meadowlands

[Newmarket]

17 hours ago, Brodie said:

Who is over the low class racing?

Low class racing is what is popular for Brodie!

 

Me, I am over the constant crap harness racing. Small fields that are less than 8 runners I never bet on, we are specialising in 2nd tier harness. 
 

When anyone comments on here about memories of harness, it’s never about a maiden, amateur or claiming race. People talk about heading out to Addington in July to watch Hands Down battle it out, or Sir Castleton and Basil Dean…. even when we have open class racing or cups, they are usually low class or small fields. 
 

 

[Rangatira]

19 hours ago, Brodie said:

There are a lot of horses that arent paying their way and may not be saleable overseas.

Put s claiming price on it and get rid to someone else!

 

Since forever !!!

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

Me, I am over the constant crap harness racing. Small fields that are less than 8 runners I never bet on, we are specialising in 2nd tier harness. 
 

When anyone comments on here about memories of harness, it’s never about a maiden, amateur or claiming race.

Au Contraire matey. only just finished on this claiming thread saying about how the Claimers were my favourite .and how those horses that can't cut the FFA mustard are the real triers in racing.  And Westview , Spatchcock and Brodster don't seem to mind them either..

Sure ! there's been talk of some of the greats (horses and horsemen ) on this site but plenty have often commented on Loose class horses they admire (admired) .

I've seen hundred start 2 win trotters mentioned , even The 'Spitfire' got a hundred Posts 😂 from his fan club here.😂 Mo'unga is no superstar either 😉 popular amongst the lads though.

Sorry about the small fields bugging you. There's just a lot less horses and trainers around so it's just Par for the course. Auckland Cup still had quality runners and good divvies past 2 years even with 9 and the 8 runners. It's just part of the Way It is at the moment. 

Plenty of Sunday New Zealand racing all year round to keep you punting if you need too mate, and all fairly lower class horses in bigger fields, which you and Brodster like too. Can't see any problem. just enjoy that and give the premier meetings the flick might be your go ? 

[Brodie]

The smaller fields nowadays are the group races or tighter class races!

The looser classes and maiden's tend to have much fuller fields and far better for  wagering into in Brodies world!

[Rangatira]

22 hours ago, Brodie said:

Low class racing is what is popular for Brodie!

Lux be washing your mouth out with flakes if he finds out you are pro the lower classes.

[the galah]

5 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Me, I am over the constant crap harness racing. Small fields that are less than 8 runners I never bet on, we are specialising in 2nd tier harness. 
 

When anyone comments on here about memories of harness, it’s never about a maiden, amateur or claiming race. People talk about heading out to Addington in July to watch Hands Down battle it out, or Sir Castleton and Basil Dean…. even when we have open class racing or cups, they are usually low class or small fields. 
 

 

Peoples reminisce on here mostly about the good horses,but thats partly because they are memories that others reading this are likely to have shared..

But the most obvious memories people have, are their own personal memories and experiences..

They don't get discussed as much on here,but they are by far the most relevant and important memories to each individual.

Memories of their first win,most likely in a non win race,memories of the characters they met,most likely locals who most likely were not high achievers.

Memories of family involvement and of course memories of the experiences ttey had with their horses,who most likely are the horses running in what you have referred to as crap racing.

memories of those who helped them or they worked for or with, along their harness racing jouney. 

 

I think you need to give  some thought to the importance and releveance of what you are disparaging.

 

Edited May 29 by the galah

[Doomed]

7 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Me, I am over the constant crap harness racing. Small fields that are less than 8 runners I never bet on, we are specialising in 2nd tier harness. 
 

When anyone comments on here about memories of harness, it’s never about a maiden, amateur or claiming race. People talk about heading out to Addington in July to watch Hands Down battle it out, or Sir Castleton and Basil Dean…. even when we have open class racing or cups, they are usually low class or small fields. 
 

 

6 in the Sapling stakes this weekend. Quite sad. I don't think they have really come to grips with how to make the Jan 1 to 31 Dec season work properly.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

6 in the Sapling stakes this weekend. Quite sad. I don't think they have really come to grips with how to make the Jan 1 to 31 Dec season work properly.

Well they'll have to learn. 

Is great you can have your 2 yearolds racing in NZ Cup week now , with that change in season dates. 

One of the BEST incentives for 2 year olds in all harness history > Now they can race an entire year , from when actually turning 2 , right up to Jan 1st turning 3 if they want. 

NZ has been notoriously Bad/Slow at getting 2 yearolds going for years. Now the trainers have an extra 4 months to get it right. Much better/easier to get a 2 year old to the races.

 John Dunn has Got the Chocolates absolutely flying  .Will win the Sapling by yards.  Has been smashing Allstars already , so God knows what he would do to other stables runners.  Is a Waste of time (and your horses confidence) trying to beat him already. Let stable-mate Malakai try . he'll flatten pretty quick. 

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

6 in the Sapling stakes this weekend. Quite sad. I don't think they have really come to grips with how to make the Jan 1 to 31 Dec season work properly.

60k and 6 horses is a continuation of the small fields in the races that owners/trainers wanted to win!

Terrible races to punt into, a d why on earth is it 1700 metres?

Sprint racing doesnt entice punting in harness racing, so why do they persist?

[Gammalite]

10 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Terrible races to punt into, a d why on earth is it 1700 metres?

Sprint racing doesnt entice punting in harness racing, so why do they persist?

Don't think you understand the training of 2 yearolds Brodster.

You can't just go and flatten em with mile and half 2400m racing . The Sapling stakes has traditionally been a mile (1600m)  standard for 2 yearolds. But the last 2 years they added 100m for you lol 😉. so you shouldn't get so bored.

The 2year old Fillies in race 7 and Also the 3 year-olds going around in race 8 at Ashburton , also being looked after by the club !! excellent at the 1700m dispatch point.

The 8 races are ALL at 2400m for the older horses . 

so you and Doomed should just watch those 8 races ?  and just skip over the 2 yearolds you're both grizzling about tonight . 😁😉  both are  John Dunn benefit races anyway 🏆🏆💰💰

They persist with 1700 for 2 and 3 year olds so you DOn't Flatten The Poor Bastards while they're learning their craft still.  A great idea to persist with this approach .This  looks after the horse better 😊, with recovery and that , plus mental and physical training. 

[Brodie]

28 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Don't think you understand the training of 2 yearolds Brodster.

You can't just go and flatten em with mile and half 2400m racing . The Sapling stakes has traditionally been a mile (1600m)  standard for 2 yearolds. But the last 2 years they added 100m for you lol 😉. so you shouldn't get so bored.

The 2year old Fillies in race 7 and Also the 3 year-olds going around in race 8 at Ashburton , also being looked after by the club !! excellent at the 1700m dispatch point.

The 8 races are ALL at 2400m for the older horses . 

so you and Doomed should just watch those 8 races ?  and just skip over the 2 yearolds you're both grizzling about tonight . 😁😉  both are  John Dunn benefit races anyway 🏆🏆💰💰

They persist with 1700 for 2 and 3 year olds so you DOn't Flatten The Poor Bastards while they're learning their craft still.  A great idea to persist with this approach .This  looks after the horse better 😊, with recovery and that , plus mental and physical training. 

The Sapling Stakes used to be 2400metres and attracted good size fields!

For some reason they think 1700 metres is better for the 2 year olds and yet they are only 2 months away from being 3 year olds under the old NZ season that had the horses age change!

Reality is Gamma, that what they are doing is clearly not working, as only 6 starters and half the field coming out of the Dunn’s Woodend Beach stable!

Where are all of the other 2 year olds wanting to race, if this 1700m sprint race is easier on young horses?

Harness just can not be successful if they continue to be putting up reasonable money in age group and Group races and have only 5 or 6 starters.

all those races are not attracting sufficient money to cover the costs and just turns off the people they need! PUNTERS!

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, Brodie said:

Where are all of the other 2 year olds wanting to race, if this 1700m sprint race is easier on young horses?

Harness just can not be successful if they continue to be putting up reasonable money in age group and Group races and have only 5 or 6 starters.

all those races are not attracting sufficient money to cover the costs and just turns off the people they need! PUNTERS!

Punters have got All the other races . 

My only bet was on the Auckland Cup the other night . I love it when there's only 8 starters. Greyhounds only have 8 All the time. so not everyone is seeking 'Large number ' fields that you and Doomed go on about all the time.

You're just used to those ridiculously BIG fields in NZ over the years , that inflated the starting prices, BUT Dramatically DEcreased the chances of an owners horse winning. (because of numbers against it)

John Dunn had 2 wins in the 2 year old divisions last week and he will this week as well at Ashburton. (even putting those Nasel patches on the 3 runners in the Welcome Stakes as is pretty Desparate to win them for his owners) 

The 2 yearold  Fields are small Because Why would you take on his 2 horses (Got the Choc's and Queen tyros in the form they're in with a half baked 2 yearold ? for example : Nathan Williamson's horse nice horse ALWAYS DREAMING was struggling a long way out in the Welcome Stakes and is probably ruined for the season now. You can't do this to your 2 yearolds and expect them to do well at their next start.

You and Doomed and Newmarket just NOT seeing the Horses picture at all , grizzling about punting all the time , and the size of the fields racing . (with Merlin and Sooner the Better and DSD resting from the AKLD Cup , etc. Harness racing is Still successful (for more owners) with smaller fields and more races , so that is better than big fields and less races with it Very hard to win for the participants)  

And as for racing 2 yearolds mate .The last time the Sapling Stakes was 2400m was 1998 . You are living in the past old mate 😅. last century. The Club 'saw the light' and wisely Realised (unlike yourself 😉) that it is TOO HARD to put the 2 yearolds at this stage of their career over that journey. You'd be carving em' up as a trainer though mate? 😁.  toughen em' up a bit ya reckon ? Put em over the 2400m and taking on Johns 2 star horses. You guys are Extra Tough Judges 😂 

[Brodie]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Punters have got All the other races . 

My only bet was on the Auckland Cup the other night . I love it when there's only 8 starters. Greyhounds only have 8 All the time. so not everyone is seeking 'Large number ' fields that you and Doomed go on about all the time.

You're just used to those ridiculously BIG fields in NZ over the years , that inflated the starting prices, BUT Dramatically DEcreased the chances of an owners horse winning. (because of numbers against it)

John Dunn had 2 wins in the 2 year old divisions last week and he will this week as well at Ashburton. (even putting those Nasel patches on the 3 runners in the Welcome Stakes as is pretty Desparate to win them for his owners) 

The 2 yearold  Fields are small Because Why would you take on his 2 horses (Got the Choc's and Queen tyros in the form they're in with a half baked 2 yearold ? for example : Nathan Williamson's horse nice horse ALWAYS DREAMING was struggling a long way out in the Welcome Stakes and is probably ruined for the season now. You can't do this to your 2 yearolds and expect them to do well at their next start.

You and Doomed and Newmarket just NOT seeing the Horses picture at all , grizzling about punting all the time , and the size of the fields racing . (with Merlin and Sooner the Better and DSD resting from the AKLD Cup , etc. Harness racing is Still successful (for more owners) with smaller fields and more races , so that is better than big fields and less races with it Very hard to win for the participants)  

And as for racing 2 yearolds mate .The last time the Sapling Stakes was 2400m was 1998 . You are living in the past old mate 😅. last century. The Club 'saw the light' and wisely Realised (unlike yourself 😉) that it is TOO HARD to put the 2 yearolds at this stage of their career over that journey. You'd be carving em' up as a trainer though mate? 😁.  toughen em' up a bit ya reckon ? Put em over the 2400m and taking on Johns 2 star horses. You guys are Extra Tough Judges 😂 

The beauty of an open forum is to discuss things, and we have different opinions on things!

personally dont think 2400m in June for what used to be the end of the season is too hard on 2 year olds.

There are many 2 year olds that take older horses later in the season and is a 1700m race at speed any easier than 2400m at a slower mile rate?

The point I am trying to make is that races that have big stakes and small fields is no good for the longevity of harness racing!

It is costing the industry as it does not get enough revenue from wagering to cover anywhere near the level of stakes!

[Doomed]

51 minutes ago, Brodie said:

The beauty of an open forum is to discuss things, and we have different opinions on things!

personally dont think 2400m in June for what used to be the end of the season is too hard on 2 year olds.

There are many 2 year olds that take older horses later in the season and is a 1700m race at speed any easier than 2400m at a slower mile rate?

The point I am trying to make is that races that have big stakes and small fields is no good for the longevity of harness racing!

It is costing the industry as it does not get enough revenue from wagering to cover anywhere near the level of stakes!

Gamma just doesn't quite get the unsustainable point. I'm sure it's lovely for those owners to race for the better part of $60,000 in a 6 horse field, but turnover on that race will probably generate about $3,000 towards the cost of the total stake. Where does the other $57,000 come from?