In 20 months no more @Yankiwi....I mean Greyhounds are Banned!

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Well said, those in the game just have to look at themselves 

yes,greyhound racing governance in nz for years gave the appearance it often ignored,or badly underestimated the significance of the increasing momentum, the anti greyhound racing groups message was gaining.

And as the anti greyhound racing groups voices became louder and gained more sympathetic media coverage,the nz greyhound industry rolled on at increased scale and morphed into an industry that rewarded and was driven by the big  factory type operators.

and at that larger scale,it was ineviltable the issues the anti greyhound people targeted, were occuring at greater scale.

it was always going to be a case of,be careful what you wish for.

some predicted it,some have said they saw it coming with the benefit of hindsight and others still deny it should be.

no point blaming the woke or the do gooders.How was it there fault?They were just doing what they do. They were always in plain sight.Yet the greyhound industry gave them the scale of ammunition that they fired. 

its just reality of the world we live in these days.

Good  governance and leadership with proper foresight may never have prevented it,but they may have delayed it or mitigated the scale of it.But too late now.

all thats left in reality is for it to be dissected on the likes of social meidia. sites like this,where coincidentally some warned of the consequences.

as i mentioned,given some of the evidence presented at the nsw hearing,they must be in trouble. 

as to horse racing. I believe with proper leadership,the continuation of horse racing, has nothing to fear in our lifetime,although you can see jumps racing will probably go in under a decade.

good governance is so important for industries like the racing codes.And treating industries that support your own is of vital importance.

An example is what the tab did to the publicans who had tab's in their pubs. When they reduced tote % of turnover payout by about 1% the publicans at the tab's responsed with this isn't fair, with shit or no service when you go there,no fields on the wall,reduced promotions on days like melbounre cup,less industry exposure...anyway the point is ,like with what happened with greyhound racing,the big picture is normally steering you in the face,you just have to open your eyes and plot a course which benefits the people whose interests you represent.

Edited December 15 by the galah

[Yankiwi]

22 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Note to everyone @Yankiwi's statistics are misinformation aka bullshit.

 

Note to everyone.

This is how Yankiwi's data compared with GRNZ data reported to the minister for 2024/2025 1st quarter.

This is @Chief Stipe idea of misinformation & bullshit.

 

 

For the first time GRNZ reported injuries as "Post-race Veterinary Examinations" to the minister, so they could try to hide away 3 additional major injuries in the footnotes.

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

Note to everyone.

This is how Yankiwi's data compared with GRNZ data reported to the minister for 2024/2025 1st quarter.

This is @Chief Stipe idea of misinformation & bullshit.

 

Some one elses alleged errors doens't validate you bullshit @Yankiwi.

Dog racing was doomed the moment the focused on the wrong metric.  Only gave fodder to animal activists and the obsessed such as yourself.

I take it now that your GRNZ obsession is coming to an end you will be focussing on fat shaming those who own obese labradors?  Or calling out those who pay exorbitant amounts of money for French Bulldogs who suffer from all sorts of genetic health issues and can't breed naturally?

[BitofaLegend]

I'd say greyhound racing is facing an uphill battle.

Sent emails to some people regarding the concerns.

Only ACT responded, but there response says it all to me.

[the galah]

The evidence being given to the current nsw greyhound commission of inquiry is very interesting.

In july this year, greyhound racing nsw ,with big fanfare,announced that wentworth park was to provide a machine that any greyhound trainer could use, that they claimed "would detect underlying,not yet visible injuries leading to further advances in injury detection and animal welfare." Called Canidgait analysis.

sounded like they may have been intending to roll them out at other tracks. Apparently the machines cost $60,000 each and came from germany.

only problem was the chief veterinary officer at the time of the purchase,had described them, as useless, for the purpose that greyhound nsw was claiming they would be used for.

but that chief vet then resigned,but not before giving a bombshell report heavily critical of greyhound nsw animal welfare issues. That bombshell report resulted in the ceo of greyhound nsw resigning in july,almost as soon as the report became public.

anyway,greyhound nsw then sought a replacement,chief veterinary officer,and the perosn who got the job was someone who had only 3 years experience after graduating from vet school and with no specific greyhound knowledge other than what they had struck when doing relieving work at some vet practices.

seemed an odd choice ,maybe that was why they were chosen.

But that vet resigned not long after as ,although with the offical title of chief vet,apparently it wasn't a full time posistion. (And maybe they also cottoned on to what they were walking into.)Also that vet,had not even realised when first interviewed that the position being considered was chief vet and seemingly didn't really want such a job, as they were happy being a relief vet for clinics who had vets away)

that vet did get a trip to germany to see the new machines,and did think they were worthwhile,just not really for greyhounds because the maximum speed of the treadmill was only 20kmph,dogs were not going around bends on the machine,the surfaces they were on were different to track surfaces,etc.

Edited December 16 by the galah

[BitofaLegend]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

The evidence being given to the current nsw greyhound commission of inquiry is very interesting.

In july this year, greyhound racing nsw ,with big fanfare,announced that wentworth park was to provide a machine that any greyhound trainer could use, that they claimed "would detect underlying,not yet visible injuries leading to further advances in injury detection and animal welfare." Called Canidgait analysis.

sounded like they may have been intending to roll them out at other tracks. Apparently the machines cost $60,000 each and came from germany.

only problem was the chief veterinary officer at the time of the purchase,had described them, as useless, for the purpose that greyhound nsw was claiming they would be used for.

but that chief vet then resigned,but not before giving a bombshell report heavily critical of greyhound nsw animal welfare issues. That bombshell report resulted in the ceo of greyhound nsw resigning in july,almost as soon as the report became public.

anyway,greyhound nsw then sought a replacement,chief veterinary officer,and the perosn who got the job was someone who had only 3 years experience after graduating from vet school and with no specific greyhound knowledge other than what they had struck when doing relieving work at some vet practices.

seemed an odd choice ,maybe that was why they were chosen.

But that vet resigned not long after as ,although with the offical title of chief vet,apparently it wasn't a full time posistion. (And maybe they also cottoned on to what they were walking into.)Also that vet,had not even realised when first interviewed that the position being considered was chief vet and seemingly didn't really want such a job, as they were happy being a relief vet for clinics who had vets away)

that vet did get a trip to germany to see the new machines,and did think they were worthwhile,just not really for greyhounds because the maximum speed of the treadmill was only 20kmph,dogs were not going around bends on the machine,the surfaces they were on were different to track surfaces,etc.

Id expect most trainers would be able to find injuries without a machine. It isnt too difficult to check a dog out. I have done it for yrs. Better people then me can tell just by watching a dog walk. Reading this is hilarious from my p.o.v. sounds like they have taken tips from the GRNZ.

[the galah]

58 minutes ago, BitofaLegend said:

Id expect most trainers would be able to find injuries without a machine. It isnt too difficult to check a dog out. I have done it for yrs. Better people then me can tell just by watching a dog walk. Reading this is hilarious from my p.o.v. sounds like they have taken tips from the GRNZ.

i guess they were looking for some good press around that time..

they have a greyhound welfare and integrity commission over there and it is them who are running the inquiry.

given the commission has been heavily criticised by some for failing to enforce integrity rules and the former chief vet accused the commission of "obfuscating the facts',many are saying how come the commission is getting to investigate themselves for those claims.

the racing minister,at the start of the inquiry says he wants the greyhounds to keep operating and that they had made progress and that the inquiry was to get the nsw industry to stay focussed..

That comment coming at the same time the commission said injury rates were at there highest since independent reporting began in 2018.

politicians,aye. 

the likes of edward rennell and michael dore gave evidence early on.

Michael dore discussed the likes of preferential draw races. He said the data showed they helped reduce the injury rate for a start,but then last season the injury rate went back up as dogs habits changed when they realised there was more space on the inside after all,due to the intial effect of the pbd. I think thats what he was meaning. he discussed lures.

he also said Preferential box draws were what they used on the straight tracks. I guess thats part of the reaon the racing is so clean at the wanganui straight track.

Anyway,saying dogs are clever,try to avoid injury but want to chase and win is not telling anyone anything knew. But he showed the stats indicated that anyway.

Rennell discussed nz breeding numbers ,saying due to the indutries uncertain future, the number of dogs being bred dropped 38% in the 2022/23 season,from 744 to 471 but how they were back to 548 in the latest season.

It seems NSW sends  many of their rehoming dogs to america as well. 

Edited December 16 by the galah

[BitofaLegend]

14 minutes ago, the galah said:

i guess they were looking for some good press around that time..

they have a greyhound welfare and integrity commission over there and it is them who are running the inquiry.

given the commission has been heavily criticised by some for failing to enforce integrity rules and the former chief vet accused the commission of "obfuscating the facts',many are saying how come the commission is getting to investigate themselves for those claims.

the racing minister,at the start of the inquiry says he wants the greyhounds to keep operating and that they had made progress and that the inquiry was to get the nsw industry to stay focussed..

That comment coming at the same time the commission said injury rates were at there highest since independent reporting began in 2018.

politicians,aye. 

the likes of edward rennell and michael dore gave evidence early on.

Michael dore discussed the likes of preferential draw races. He said the data showed they helped reduce the injury rate for a start,but then last season the injury rate went back up as dogs habits changed when they realised there was more space on the inside after all,due to the intial effect of the pbd. I think thats what he was meaning. he discussed lures.

he also said Preferential box draws were what they used on the straight tracks. I guess thats part of the reaon the racing is so clean at the wanganui straight track.

Anyway,saying dogs are clever,try to avoid injury but want to chase and win is not telling anyone anything knew. But he showed the stats indicated that anyway.

Rennell discussed nz breeding numbers ,saying due to the indutries uncertain future, the number of dogs being bred dropped 38% in the 2022/23 season,from 744 to 471 but how they were back to 548 in the latest season.

It seems NSW sends  many of their rehoming dogs to america as well. 

Dogs definetly will run through injuries.

Trainers should be looking over most dogs a bare minimum once, maybe twice a week and before they race/trial.

Its pure negligence imo if they arent.

Im not saying they should be able to pinpoint an injury, but there tend to be signs when a dog is injured.

Its very rare that a dog wont show any signs of favouring an injury. But i doubt a running machine would pick up an injury better then any one person.

 

Edited December 16 by BitofaLegend

[bamboozla]

https://www.miragenews.com/austrac-takes-ladbrokes-and-neds-operator-entain-1379104/#google_vignette

[the galah]

 

2 hours ago, BitofaLegend said:

Dogs definetly will run through injuries.

Trainers should be looking over most dogs a bare minimum once, maybe twice a week and before they race/trial.

Its pure negligence imo if they arent.

Im not saying they should be able to pinpoint an injury, but there tend to be signs when a dog is injured.

Its very rare that a dog wont show any signs of favouring an injury. But i doubt a running machine would pick up an injury better then any one person.

 

i'm guessing there have been occasions over  the years where people in the know have  taken advantage of pre race knowledge about a dog having an injury.Then back the dog on betfair to lose or back another from the kennel;knowing the more favoured dog had an injury.

while unless your in the know,you can never be sure,but i have seen instances of very unusual betting moves in dog racing ,both here and australia,only to see the big drifters seemingly sore from the jump.

i can remember one involving a dog that was placed in a derby,at wailkato i think it was. Anyway,it started shortly thereafter back in canterbury,addington and drew 1.Trackside highlighted the top derby run and the commentator went on about how the dog looked a sitter on that form,yet the dog continued to drift from hot favorite to about 4 in the end. The commentotor,like i think many punters,seems dumbfounded at the drift,given its form and surprised at the money that came for another runner,ifrom memory from the same kennel.

anyway the derby placegetter jumped out ok,but clearly had some sort of injury and looked uncomfortable in its action and gradually drited,i think finshing a well beaten 6th..While the one who the money had come for won.Then ,from memory,i don't think it raced again. I had been told about that type of thing,a few months before,and funnily enough it was the fella who part owned that dog that told me.i was silly enough to back it early,and remember that one well.

Edited Monday at 07:50 AM by the galah

[bamboozla]

55 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

i'm guessing there have been occasions over  the years where people in the know have  taken advantage of pre race knowledge about a dog having an injury.Then back the dog on betfair to lose or back another from the kennel;knowing the more favoured dog had an injury.

while unless your in the know,you can never be sure,but i have seen instances of very unusual betting moves in dog racing ,both here and australia,only to see the big drifters seemingly sore from the jump.

i can remember one involving a dog that was placed in a derby,at wailkato i think it was. Anyway,it started shortly thereafter back in canterbury,addington and drew 1.Trackside highlighted the top derby run and the commentator went on about how the dog looked a sitter on that form,yet the dog continued to drift from hot favorite to about 4 in the end. The commentotor,like i think many punters,seems dumbfounded at the drift,given its form and surprised at the money that came for another runner,ifrom memory from the same kennel.

anyway the derby placegetter jumped out ok,but clearly had some sort of injury and looked uncomfortable in its action and gradually drited,i think finshing a well beaten 6th..While the one who the money had come for won.Then ,from memory,i don't think it raced again. I had been told about that type of thing,a few months before,and funnily enough it was the fella who part owned that dog that told me.i was silly enough to back it early,and remember that one well.

Unfortunately the incentive strucutre these days sees a better financial outcome for trainers from a racetrack euthanasia than a retirement liability.. just another perverse outcome from disjointed policy. 

[Yankiwi]

2010 to 2024

15 years - 6 different GM's

About 2.5 years per term average.

1. Edward Rennel
2. Glenda Hughes
3. Mauro Barsi
4. Phil Holden
5. Jim Leach
6. Jeremy Kennerley

Have I missed any?

[aquaman]

11 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

2010 to 2024

15 years - 6 different GM's

About 2.5 years per term average.

1. Edward Rennel
2. Glenda Hughes
3. Mauro Barsi
4. Phil Holden
5. Jim Leach
6. Jeremy Kennerley

Have I missed any?

What about Rocketship CEO, was that Bickford, rode bikes and came from Hastings. Tried to rort the other two code's by inflating the turnover at Wanganui so as to get a bigger slice of the TAB payout.

[Yankiwi]

22 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Some one elses alleged errors doens't validate you bullshit @Yankiwi.

Cheers Chief.

After all these years of the banter, like you telling me I don't know what I'm doing, I better have proof of what I say, even though your numbers are basically in line with GRNZ they are still bullshit.

Boy I could go on & on.

Anyways, I do appreciate the fact that you've set up your forum to award the people that help drive it to what it has become.

 

 

Grand Master is quite a title. It probably goes back to the forefathers of chess. A title for the top of the elite competitors & also the most likely participants to declare checkmate at the end of a game.

I've always known you have goodwill within you, just like I do, and I'm very humbled by your recognition of this.

Thank you, Pal, ever so much!

[Yankiwi]

1 hour ago, aquaman said:

What about Rocketship CEO, was that Bickford, rode bikes and came from Hastings. Tried to rort the other two code's by inflating the turnover at Wanganui so as to get a bigger slice of the TAB payout.

Must have been before my time. Never heard of him.

Wayback machine allowed me to get back to 2010 & find Kennerley.

My memory only goes back as far as Leach.

In my early days, I thought that was his surname, not his intentions. I was quite naive about the industry back then, but luckily for me, I was a fast learner.

Purchased my first race dog on 13/01/2014 & gifted away the final one I had owned to a trainer (to get completely out & relinquish my GRNZ license) on 15/7/2015.

18 months was all it took for me to run for the hills.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

Purchased my first race dog on 13/01/2014 & gifted away the final one I had owned to a trainer (to get completely out & relinquish my GRNZ license) on 15/7/2015.

18 months was all it took for me to run for the hills.

Shame you didn't run far enough out of internet range instead of spending the next nines years with an obsessive agenda to kill the industry.

[Yankiwi]

It worked.

Chief has always seemed to be a big proponent of doctoring the number to suit the agenda, just like GRNZ has had a long tendency of doing.

 

 

Ironic really, I could care less what rank I have on BOAY.

However, the bait made it easy to show how Chief reacts when he has the actual data put before him & he doesn't like it.

Thanks for partaking in my exercise, Pal. 🍻

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

It worked.

Chief has always seemed to be a big proponent of doctoring the number to suit the agenda, just like GRNZ has had a long tendency of doing.

 

 

Ironic really, I could care less what rank I have on BOAY.

However, the bait made it easy to show how Chief reacts when he has the actual data put before him & he doesn't like it.

Thanks for partaking in my exercise, Pal. 🍻

Then why make an issue out it?

Your data is crap and your analysis not much better.   That's a fact.

[Trojan]

Just be honest @Yankiwi you are as anti-greyhound racing as any SAFE activist is.

Admit it to yourself.  You were traumatised when you lost a racing dog and have being trying to appease YOUR conscience ever since.

Just accept that the sport of Greyhound Racing was never meant for you.

Don't pretend you care about the sport because you don't.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Trojan said:

Just be honest @Yankiwi you are as anti-greyhound racing as any SAFE activist is.

Admit it to yourself.  You were traumatised when you lost a racing dog and have being trying to appease YOUR conscience ever since.

Just accept that the sport of Greyhound Racing was never meant for you.

Don't pretend you care about the sport because you don't.

 

your saying theres no difference between, someone who has for years,on this forum,highlighted issues and advocated for change to address those issues...and someone someone who sees the same issues,does not advocate for change,instead advocating for  shutting down the industry..

interesting logic

 

[Gammalite]

2 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

your saying theres no difference between, someone who has for years,on this forum,highlighted issues and advocated for change to address those issues...and someone someone who sees the same issues,does not advocate for change,instead advocating for  shutting down the industry..

interesting logic

 

yes the Yankiwi bloke has listed injurues and track problems etc, trying to get some notice of these issues.

If you go to hard at/ and against something you do risk over-reaction in the Negative more than the Positive sometimes. It's like 'let's call it all off then for ethical issues'. 🙄. can't they be bothered working on a solution ? .

NSW Government closed greyhounds 2017 , for a short time but Racing was re-instated when they realized the employment of over 2000 was impacted , and all that was needed was a revue panel to apply 32 Recommendations (that were all approved) to improve the running of the industry in that state. Surely NZ greyhound Admin should contact them , and Implement the Same changes ? can't be that hard. 

Just as many horses (and especially human athletes in All manner of sports ) have heaps of injury issues as well as the greys. It's Par for the course as muscles strain , and man , horse and dog stretch out to their maximum ability . but they persevere and treatments and surgeries are done. No -one is trying to get injured or injure others. 

A cap on breeding numbers of some kind ? maybe a cap on runners from one kennel in one race ? should be max 4 per race , so that more people (rivals) have a chance to earn prizemoney as well, to keep people interested. 

they could of tweaked a few things ??. there's a LOT of dog lovers out there , lots of tracks, plenty of Punters. Giving it all up for a few 'Wokes' is just giving in to a miniority. is Horse racing next?  

 

 

[bamboozla]

36 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

your saying theres no difference between, someone who has for years,on this forum,highlighted issues and advocated for change to address those issues...and someone someone who sees the same issues,does not advocate for change,instead advocating for  shutting down the industry..

interesting logic

 

I can't agree more, the sheer level of effort and persistance on his part demonstrates a passion for the issues not the actions of someone trying to undermine the sport. Even as these forums have becaome less populated over the years as many left the sport he has continued on trying to shine a light on the problems even with only the Stipe for company at times. 

Having been away from this forum myself for sometime I read over some old threads going back 6 years or more and it is all the same issues, largely the same cast of characters letting the game down. Just the number of people trying to speak out has declined with time as they gave up and left with Yankiwi close to the last man standing.

People lament what they conveniently label 'keyboard warriors' when the opinions expressed don't suit there own and comfort themselves with the fact that they are too busy doing the hard work to read this garbage. All well and good but when you have your head down for years and finally look up and see oblivion then perhaps they should have paid a bit more attention. 

[BitofaLegend]

9 hours ago, Gammalite said:

yes the Yankiwi bloke has listed injurues and track problems etc, trying to get some notice of these issues.

If you go to hard at/ and against something you do risk over-reaction in the Negative more than the Positive sometimes. It's like 'let's call it all off then for ethical issues'. 🙄. can't they be bothered working on a solution ? .

NSW Government closed greyhounds 2017 , for a short time but Racing was re-instated when they realized the employment of over 2000 was impacted , and all that was needed was a revue panel to apply 32 Recommendations (that were all approved) to improve the running of the industry in that state. Surely NZ greyhound Admin should contact them , and Implement the Same changes ? can't be that hard. 

Just as many horses (and especially human athletes in All manner of sports ) have heaps of injury issues as well as the greys. It's Par for the course as muscles strain , and man , horse and dog stretch out to their maximum ability . but they persevere and treatments and surgeries are done. No -one is trying to get injured or injure others. 

A cap on breeding numbers of some kind ? maybe a cap on runners from one kennel in one race ? should be max 4 per race , so that more people (rivals) have a chance to earn prizemoney as well, to keep people interested. 

they could of tweaked a few things ??. there's a LOT of dog lovers out there , lots of tracks, plenty of Punters. Giving it all up for a few 'Wokes' is just giving in to a miniority. is Horse racing next?  

 

 

NSW probably isnt a prime example right now considering alot of the GRNSW lost their jobs due to incompetence and is currently under heavy reviews from the state govt which arent looking promising. 

Add to that, the broken deals between them and Entain and Entain trying to pull out of its deal with GRNSW due to negligence.

I think the biggest issue in NZ which I have mentioned several times is the public doesnt support racing anymore.

The general public are happy the greyhounf industry is shutting down, and I have 0 doubts the same eyes will fall on the horses next.

Compared to Australia where racing for a large part, is still engrained in their culture, its no longer the same here. Even the NZ Cup coverage has started diminish outside of trackside over time which was a big event even a decadd ago.

[Chief Stipe]

8 hours ago, bamboozla said:

Just the number of people trying to speak out has declined with time as they gave up and left with Yankiwi close to the last man standing

@Yankiwi and his acolytes have been a big part of the problem.  @Yankiwi is the exemplar of wahg not to do and what has brought your industry down.  By his own admission after 14 months involvement he ran for the hills except he didn't.  What he did was give oxygen to the anti-racing brigade and with his misinformation poured petrol on the fires they lit.  

He character assassinated administrators, trainers and owners alike.  All from the sidelines because he refused to have any more real skin in the game.  

He refused opportunities to speak directly with administrators instead maintained his keyboard attacks.

At the end of the day he achieved nothing except help bring down an industry he says he supports.  He achieved nothing positive.

All three racing codes have @Yankiwi 's many driven only by envy or at best one single issue which they are obsessed with.  Often something that happened years ago.  It is a bit like if I couldn't win no one else is.

I could name the individuals from each code, many have passed through BOAY and many other forms of social media.  They've all achieved nothing or changed anything but continue to repeat the same actions over and over and over.  Didn't Einstein define that as insanity?

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, Gammalite said:

they could of tweaked a few things ??. there's a LOT of dog lovers out there , lots of tracks, plenty of Punters. Giving it all up for a few 'Wokes' is just giving in to a miniority. is Horse racing next?  

 

Yes it is.  Sadly many of the industry malcontents who are largely minor achievers in the sport are only helping that small group.