Nowornever Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 8 hours ago, Gammalite said: The horse is only a $1.40 shot ONLY because the bookie says so. they've fooled you guys for sure. Well it opened 1.28 so the bookies were being overly cautious. But the closing price is what the public deem to be the correct price based on the all the betting action so they did not fool that many with the price going out quite a bit. If everyone knew the driver was going to drive like that staying last on a 2.02 mile rate and the leaders coming home in 26.2 for the last 400m. The price would be closer to $5.00 so the driver fooled everyone not the bookies. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, Nowornever said: Well it opened 1.28 so the bookies were being overly cautious. But the closing price is what the public deem to be the correct price based on the all the betting action so they did not fool that many with the price going out quite a bit. If everyone knew the driver was going to drive like that staying last on a 2.02 mile rate and the leaders coming home in 26.2 for the last 400m. The price would be closer to $5.00 so the driver fooled everyone not the bookies. Yes and the disgraceful drive on Mo'Unga in the FFA who was showing 5-1 , should of been 50-1 the way he drove it. I was just debating with another former driver at another channel, about Mo'Unga whom he considers to be near the top horses in NZ. ( I told him DSD is) Ferguson drove big Mo like it was the worst horse in the race. the horse wanted to go early too. He just wouldn't let it. So it looks like a Double Life sentence for Craig Ferguson in that case ? . no parole . guilty as charged Marketplace and Mo. Penalty? well think Craig is considered a flop by all and sundry 😎 and should have to explain himself to Forbury 🤣😂😋 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 14 hours ago, Gammalite said: Yes and the disgraceful drive on Mo'Unga in the FFA who was showing 5-1 , should of been 50-1 the way he drove it. I was just debating with another former driver at another channel, about Mo'Unga whom he considers to be near the top horses in NZ. ( I told him DSD is) Ferguson drove big Mo like it was the worst horse in the race. the horse wanted to go early too. He just wouldn't let it. So it looks like a Double Life sentence for Craig Ferguson in that case ? . no parole . guilty as charged Marketplace and Mo. Penalty? well think Craig is considered a flop by all and sundry 😎 and should have to explain himself to Forbury 🤣😂😋 R Todd said in his pre race interview on trackside on the night mouaga would be driven conservatively and would be hoping for luck, so punters were advsied of the tactics.His price reflected those comments. Of course mounga has been a horse we've discussed before on bit of a yarn R todd was previously criticsed for not publicly advising punters at westport of the change in tactics,when a hot favorite. On that occassion the mounga team took punters for a ride when seemingly just there for a quiet run and ended up looking a certainty beaten when a hot favorite.had they advised punters pre race at westport then they would not have received criticism. so,if we are being fair to todd and ferguson as far as mounga goes at auckland,r todd was trying to do the best thing by puinters as regards mounga,so shouldn't be criticised. Still, not a drive by c ferguson that helped his horses chances even under the circumstances. I'm guessing you didn't hear r todds pre race comments around both horses. They are part of why c ferguson is getting criticsed for the marketplace drive and not mounga and those comments are a significant part of the basis for punters trusting those comments and making marketplace,the winner of its last 6 ,including 2 group 1's,the hot favorite and mounga paying about $8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 3 hours ago, the galah said: R Todd said in his pre race interview on trackside on the night mouaga would be driven conservatively and would be hoping for luck, so punters were advsied of the tactics.His price reflected those comments. Of course mounga has been a horse we've discussed before on bit of a yarn R todd was previously criticsed for not publicly advising punters at westport of the change in tactics,when a hot favorite. On that occassion the mounga team took punters for a ride when seemingly just there for a quiet run and ended up looking a certainty beaten when a hot favorite.had they advised punters pre race at westport then they would not have received criticism. so,if we are being fair to todd and ferguson as far as mounga goes at auckland,r todd was trying to do the best thing by puinters as regards mounga,so shouldn't be criticised. Still, not a drive by c ferguson that helped his horses chances even under the circumstances. I'm guessing you didn't hear r todds pre race comments around both horses. They are part of why c ferguson is getting criticsed for the marketplace drive and not mounga and those comments are a significant part of the basis for punters trusting those comments and making marketplace,the winner of its last 6 ,including 2 group 1's,the hot favorite and mounga paying about $8. Being given info a few minutes prior to the start of a race is not a lot of use, when most wouldve already had their punt. Anyway if you are a punter that keep backing the short ones then you have to take the bad with the good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 11 hours ago, the galah said: They are part of why c ferguson is getting criticsed for the marketplace drive and not mounga and those comments are a significant part of the basis for punters trusting those comments and making marketplace,the winner of its last 6 ,including 2 group 1's,the hot favorite and mounga paying about $8. ALL Standardbred horses should go into a race ,Able and driven to Win it. it's the beauty of them compared to gallopers. none of this need a run or not out to the right distance yet type stuff that goes on with those galloping wonders. Mo'Unga was still 3rd favourite . behind fellow NZ Cup runner Republican Party (4th) and the race winner in Jolimont. One year ago I was tipping Jolimont as a strong NZ Cup chance ,(when Mark was driving it and winning) but ultimately he wasn't even good enough , JUST LIKE the rest of last Friday nights field , to even Start in the NZ CUP. Mo'unga should be totally Demolishing 'Frisco Bay' , 'Little Spike' and company. But wasn't driven like a NZ Cup running horse at all. Dragged back then trailing Colonel Lincoln (a 50-1 shot) 4 back on the fence. ???? Bloody Nora.😁 Mo was a handy 6th in the NZ Cup then beat Republican Party to win the Group 3 Summer Cup not long after that. He (Mo'Unga) should be driven to Win Against last Fridays weak opposition? , But was driven like a Coward to be honest. Didn't have one skerritt of a crack at it, at any stage. Couldn't even run in the FIRST 4 the way he drove it. A total RIP-OFF of all Punters monies. 💰 At least Marketplace was 'narrowly' beaten, And beaten By 2 horses that are very good , 'Rubira' and ''Choc's' have beaten him (Marketplace) convincingly in the past. I have no issue lol 🤣 but Big Mo ?. what a shameful thing that was 😜 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Good on Guerin for trying to address this on the box seat but it is not good enough for the stipes to say "Oh sorry I should have documented that on the night" It would be good if the stipes are going to be held to account a bit more as well as I could name 100 occasions where the stipes have let the punters down in the last couple of years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 Watching the box seat I noticed another one of my pet peeves. Presenters spouting a load of rubbish without getting their facts right. In the above video at the 27:40 mark Whale claims Max Hill has only had about half a dozen drives, when he has actually had 574 drives and 34 wins. Get your facts right please this is basic stuff! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 37 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Watching the box seat I noticed another one of my pet peeves. Presenters spouting a load of rubbish without getting their facts right. In the above video at the 27:40 mark Whale claims Max Hill has only had about half a dozen drives, when he has actually had 574 drives and 34 wins. Get your facts right please this is basic stuff! I originally thought Craig said that Max Hill had about half a dozen drives but thought that my hearing must be not so good! Seriously you would have to wonder what is going on when Trackside’s expert tipster can say things that are diabolically incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 23 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Good on Guerin for trying to address this on the box seat but it is not good enough for the stipes to say "Oh sorry I should have documented that on the night" It would be good if the stipes are going to be held to account a bit more as well as I could name 100 occasions where the stipes have let the punters down in the last couple of years. i agree i was good to see the box seat discuss it. The only things i would add are. While i believe r todd was trying to do the right thing by the betting public and warn them pre race of the likely tactics of his driver,both todd and ferguson seem to have doubled down on the assumption there was only one way for the horse to be driven to achieve the least taxing run fresh up. any punter can tell you thats not the case. Fergsuon could have used his well known gate speed and set a slow pace,or used the gate speed and trailed or gone back at the start then moved up when the pace was slow,or etc... There were so many possible scenarios tactically that could have been employed that ensured the horse was put into a position to win and still not had a tough run fresh up. Todd and ferguson seem to be sticking to ,well making the horse run home in 25.3(according to the whale) was easir on their horse, than insread running home a full second slower than if they had been up front and made a tactical forward move on a previous 33 middle quarter. Also,i really think this whole marketplace thing illustrates why bit of yarn had such a long running thread on a horse from the todd stable,mounga,which i started,after it ran over on the coast just on a year ago. The whole point of that thread was to highlight punters displeasure over the questionable tactics employed that day,and specifically the failure of the stipes to even give it a mention in their report. todd may have possibly learnt from that thread and thought he was doing the right thing by the public last week,but judging by last week,the stipes at auckland never learnt anything. so last weeks drive was just history repeating itself and you have to question the sincerity of the motives of the stipes who are now saying they should have at least questioned fergusons drive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nowornever said: Watching the box seat I noticed another one of my pet peeves. Presenters spouting a load of rubbish without getting their facts right. In the above video at the 27:40 mark Whale claims Max Hill has only had about half a dozen drives, when he has actually had 574 drives and 34 wins. Get your facts right please this is basic stuff! yes he did say that,it did sound a bit odd coming from the whale,who has such a thorough knowledge of all things harness.I'm guessing he just confused himself somehow.I'm sure he knows who max hill is and what hes achieved so far.. We can all do that occasionally. Edited March 19 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westbrew Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 One of the major problems Harness racing has is the TAB is comprised of two sorts of punters those who have a specific interest ie sports or Greyhounds or harness etc, and those who are casual punters that are just looking to have a recreational bet or two. The example in the start of this tread while being easily understood by harness followers it puts the recreational punter off. Now I don't know the exact numbers but the average harness punter is probably 55+ and the average recreational punter 35+ guess which one is going to die out first???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted Friday at 09:18 AM Share Posted Friday at 09:18 AM Great drive tonight on Marketplace by Ferguson. He got Mo'Unga beat again too 🤣😁👍. Was thinking the 'choc's' could win a Derby this year for John Dunn , the way he races. and some big runs last season Just a real good horse. But maybe Marketplace has his measure . John drove the Choc's to WIN tonight in the colts millions , and gave it a great shot . Marketplace gathered him in easy though . Regan Todd another Big Race win. How good are Cullen and Todd training.? doing fabulous with a few horses each racing tonight . Stella Rouge was All out to win the Fillies Millions from the 2 Cullen fillies. Allstars unplaced in both these 3 year old races. a very unusual event. But great to see these young trainers have caught up , as is Fabulous harness racing action now. The FFA with a Clear Cullen / Todd domination as well with DSD and Mo'unga . surely Ferguson Not driving to get Mo beaten again ?? hahaha . better call SAUL, or better call Forbury at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted Friday at 08:09 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:09 PM Question here is if Market Place is so good how do they get away last week not trying to win, which probably happens often in harness, with horses dropping back in ratings, must be lots of manipulation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted Saturday at 08:01 AM Share Posted Saturday at 08:01 AM 22 hours ago, Gammalite said: Great drive tonight on Marketplace by Ferguson. He got Mo'Unga beat again too 🤣😁👍. Was thinking the 'choc's' could win a Derby this year for John Dunn , the way he races. and some big runs last season Just a real good horse. But maybe Marketplace has his measure . John drove the Choc's to WIN tonight in the colts millions , and gave it a great shot . Marketplace gathered him in easy though . Regan Todd another Big Race win. How good are Cullen and Todd training.? doing fabulous with a few horses each racing tonight . Stella Rouge was All out to win the Fillies Millions from the 2 Cullen fillies. Allstars unplaced in both these 3 year old races. a very unusual event. But great to see these young trainers have caught up , as is Fabulous harness racing action now. The FFA with a Clear Cullen / Todd domination as well with DSD and Mo'unga . surely Ferguson Not driving to get Mo beaten again ?? hahaha . better call SAUL, or better call Forbury at least. Yes, although it’s best nobody knocks the Allstar team…. but wow, what has changed. Can’t keep up it the trail now… gone are the days when their 2nd tier nags could sit 3 wide without cover in quick times… but win easily? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted Sunday at 01:05 AM Share Posted Sunday at 01:05 AM On 20/03/2025 at 1:36 PM, westbrew said: Now I don't know the exact numbers but the average harness punter is probably 55+ Easily the case when it comes to my "bestie" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted Monday at 07:19 AM Share Posted Monday at 07:19 AM On 3/23/2025 at 2:05 PM, Rangatira said: Easily the case when it comes to my "bestie" Bestie thrown the white arrow on betting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted Monday at 08:36 AM Share Posted Monday at 08:36 AM 1 hour ago, paleface adios said: Bestie thrown the white arrow on betting "On Reflection" my bestie is "Totally Different" from anyone else I know and most definitely "The Man With The (TAB's) Money" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted Monday at 09:15 AM Share Posted Monday at 09:15 AM 37 minutes ago, Rangatira said: "On Reflection" my bestie is "Totally Different" from anyone Not human tab most feared beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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