All the Best Awapuni!

[Wingman]

39 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

NZTR want less tracks, Entain want more racing.  There's a fault line in this marriage.  One thing today has proved is that selling off venues to prop up others managed like today's example is a sure fire plan for failure.

The best close/summing up on this subject I have seen. Well said/explained Special Agent

[Extra Dollars]

29 minutes ago, Extra Dollars said:

I used to have abit of hope/belief in your comments CHIEF STIPE,until your last comment about Kate,she is the only one who has ridden amongst us&against us,in my view Kate does a better job of unpaid training the apprentices as well, plus she is the only one willing to speak on camera......why do you not respect her knowledge&experience?  

????

[SLB2.0]

20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Struggle to get race meetings scheduled in the South Island.

It's also tough to 'slip' on a bog Riverton track

[Special Agent]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I have no problem with Hercock commenting on how her horse feels underneath her when galloping on the track.  But shouldn't the line be drawn at her commenting on how to manage the tracks?  Especially when her solution is essentially to pour more water on the tracks.

 

So, just back to these Kate Hercock comments.  Viewers of Trackside are always wanting more insight from the trainers and jockeys of the day as a form of entertainment.  I don't know how many times you've been interviewed on Trackside Chief or how many times you may have been caught on the hop, or been asked that one question too many, especially on the back of an unlucky run or hair raising ride.

I think Kate has been in the industry long enough to have valid opinions on all matters of racing.  And that is what they are ... opinions.  Just like your's or others on here.  If Kate has said something totally wrong or offensive she will be dealt with under the NZ Rules of Racing.  Until then Kate can voice her opinion as she is entitled.  If anyone doesn't like what she says you can always "mute" her.

[Extra Dollars]

58 minutes ago, Extra Dollars said:

I used to have abit of hope/belief in your comments CHIEF STIPE,until your last comment about Kate,she is the only one who has ridden amongst us&against us,in my view Kate does a better job of unpaid training the apprentices as well, plus she is the only one willing to speak on camera......why do you not respect her knowledge&experience?  

More "Kates" in the industry need to be listened to,rather than those clipboard holder/University scholars,....,the idea of Universal Turf/Track management ideas that apply to EVERY soil structure in every Racing Club in NZ......

[Chief Stipe]

26 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

think Kate has been in the industry long enough to have valid opinions on all matters of racing.  And that is what they are ... opinions.

No Hercock has now done at least 3 interviews on Trackside in recent weeks where she has given more than opinion.  She has stated specifically what the Track Managers should have done.  That is an area of knowledge beyond her specific realm.  It isn't helpful at all nor what she is saying accurate.  She repeats largely three things - water more, don't move the rail and the track managers are doing what we tell them to do.  Really?  Is it that simple?

It then becomes a rallying call for all the armchair experts to slay Track Managers and those employed to fix the issues with limited resources.  Hastings is stuffed as is Trentham.  Adding more water or not shifting the rail ain't going to fix them.

@Special Agent would you be happy for a Jockey to tell you how to train your horses?  Or would you prefer knowledgeable feedback on how your horse performed in a race?  Theres a difference.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Special Agent said:

NZTR want less tracks, Entain want more racing.  There's a fault line in this marriage.  One thing today has proved is that selling off venues to prop up others managed like today's example is a sure fire plan for failure.

 

1 hour ago, Wingman said:

The best close/summing up on this subject I have seen. Well said/explained Special Agent

The number of tracks is largely irrelevant.  It is about having sustainable tracks that are financially able to maintain their business.

In an earlier post reference was made to the amount of money spent at Flemington each year to renovate and maintain the track(s).  They can afford to do it.  They have 25 race meetings a year, 30 jumpout meetings (3 a month) and 800 horses are trained on the course.  

Meanwhile in NZ we seem to be contemplating the sale of Levin to fund a course (Trentham) that has 12 meetings a year, no training tracks/facilities, next to zero horses trained on the track, no jumpouts or trials and a stabling/saddling area that was built just after WW2

[Murray Fish]

2 hours ago, Special Agent said:

What jockey and trainer knowledge got the industry into the state it is in?

There has always been this sort of strange  internal force at play with 'Trainers needing to play favor$ with the rich owners who have paid the big dollar$, the Jockeys are becoming to Owners for 'the ride' and also to the Trainers for a ride. There is always a needed positive narrative  by the Trainers to the O's!  and the Jockeys have to be nodding their Hats to the T's and O's! Still shown in some jockey vernacular! Collectively,  there is a needed hegemony over T's and J's not to be Too critical... now where is that Cool Aid!

ps. Have we today see just another minor tragedy as nz racing marches into the sunset?? very minor in that no human or horse was actually damaged.. or is as Marx once said history repeating a as a Farce

 

[Murray Fish]

2 hours ago, SLB2.0 said:

It's also tough to 'slip' on a bog Riverton track

by chance we hope to be on track for their next meeting, will file a track report if the net is running on course...  gee, i think it was 51 years ago that i was on course there!

 

[curious]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 would you be happy for a Jockey to tell you how to train your horses?  Or would you prefer knowledgeable feedback on how your horse performed in a race?  Theres a difference.

Personally, I'd prefer both, though I can see and measure the latter myself. But if the rider thinks they need another run, more work, some gate practice, a gear change, to learn to relax more, better footing, an extra furlong, whatever, I'd like to hear that opinion.

Edited 7 hours ago by curious

[Freda]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Personally, I'd prefer both, though I can see and measure the latter myself. But if the rider thinks they need another run, more work, some gate practice, a gear change, to learn to relax more, better footing, an extra furlong, whatever, I'd like to hear that opinion.

Yes. 

I take each and every opinion on board, be it over track surfaces,  horse performance,  what the weather might do....but I'm quite capable of analyzing what has been said and filing it for future use.

I don't have to rush off and slavishly follow said opinion. 

Years ago I sat at a meeting where a Turftech representative ( Jim Murphy) was in attendance,  along with CJC personnel. The work being undertaken at Rangiora following the accident there was being discussed. Much was made of the grass type being promoted which, according to the meeting Chair, was in use internationally and from Ruakaka to Invercargill.

I got a kick under the table. Wouldn't you think grass types would be different depending on climate,  etc? hissed the person sitting next to me. 

I thought so too, but these were experts, so I listened.

Messrs Foskett and Murphy had overseen the Rangiora work and given the track a double thumbs up for racing.

But NZTR didn't want to know and racing has never returned to that track.

Clearly those experts weren't worth listening to. 

So who are the current experts who are advising our governing body? 

They must be good.

[curious]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

So who are the current experts who are advising our governing body?

More importantly, for the purpose of local accountability, who engaged them?

[Huey]

11 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

The number of tracks is largely irrelevant.  It is about having sustainable tracks that are financially able to maintain their business.

 

I don't agree, its the utilization of the existing tracks that matters. The fools thought they could close half the tracks and just keep racing , no planned transition nothing . They also never bothered to look at the contribution each track makes to the industry i.e Levin, Foxton,Te Teko etc just close venues down and everything continues as normal absolutely clueless!

Yes I know all the venues have their problems but they all have a place in the industry at this point as the industry has shown time and time again that it cannot exist without them. 

You'll see the real demise of this industry when the circus starts selling off venues, there is no plan ,there is no initiative but apparently there is a process to follow! 

Leased venues being given priority, tracks with town creep and a few acres ownership being the focus of the future , venues where no training takes place made a priority ... its nothing more than a clown show with no plan and no map of the future.

Funniest thing yesterday the guy from Awapuni is going to re consult with the experts that got them to where they are now , thats the type of person you have in leadership roles in this industry.

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

So who are the current experts who are advising our governing body?

I want to know who has the monopoly on sand?   Seriously someone has a real fixation on sand fixing everything.  They hastened the demise of Te Rapa with all the sand slitting.  They just filled the drains! 

Now look at the issues with Ellerslie.  Does NZ racing really want artificial sand tracks that are expensive to maintain and only provide an artificial Soft 6 or Soft 5 surface that bears no comparison to the sane rating on a non-sand track?

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, curious said:

Personally, I'd prefer both, though I can see and measure the latter myself. But if the rider thinks they need another run, more work, some gate practice, a gear change, to learn to relax more, better footing, an extra furlong, whatever, I'd like to hear that opinion.

Yes but they are giving an opinion on something they should be knowledgeable about.  Although in my experience there is a wide variation between those you would or wouldn't listen to.  Some Jockeys make good trainers but not many.

They may say put blinkers on.  But unless they said why they think that and you would be less inclined to take it on board.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I want to know who has the monopoly on sand?   Seriously someone has a real fixation on sand fixing everything.  They hastened the demise of Te Rapa with all the sand slitting.  They just filled the drains! 

Now look at the issues with Ellerslie.  Does NZ racing really want artificial sand tracks that are expensive to maintain and only provide an artificial Soft 6 or Soft 5 surface that bears no comparison to the sane rating on a non-sand track?

What perplexes me is that part of the solution to fixing Ellerslie was to add more sand!

If you take a good natural sand based racing surface like Foxton, that has been developed by decades of integrating organic matter. Sheep manure, grass clippings etc. If anyone suggested it would be improved by adding more sand, they'd be run out of town.

[jess]

I'm glad we have moved on from criticisng what Kate (or any other jockey) said yesterday.  They picked her out to be interviewed (appropriate given what occurred, I'd have thought).  She can comment on what she wants - & ppl can take it or leave it.  As far as I'm concerned - the REAL issue is about what happened yesterday with that track - how we got here - and where we've going from here. 

[Chief Stipe]

39 minutes ago, curious said:

What perplexes me is that part of the solution to fixing Ellerslie was to add more sand!

If you take a good natural sand based racing surface like Foxton, that has been developed by decades of integrating organic matter. Sheep manure, grass clippings etc. If anyone suggested it would be improved by adding more sand, they'd be run out of town.

Basically a sand loam to which has been added organic matter which helps with drainage, reduces the need to artificially fertilise and has increased the water holding capacity to reduce the affect of droughts BUT not at the expense of natural drainage.  

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, jess said:

They picked her out to be interviewed (appropriate given what occurred, I'd have thought).  She can comment on what she wants

She's been interviewed three times now on the same subject but at different tracks.  She seems to be Tracksides "Go To" and I'm wondering who is behind that choice.  Her repeated assertion that the fix is to irrigate more is way off the mark.  Quite ironic really when you consider the other group of stakeholders primarily trainers saying in the past that they irrigate too much!!!  Who would want to be a Track Manager?

What we have now is a disparate bunch of groups all with different opinions on the issue.  The cynic says it is a deliberate divide and rule approach.

[SLB2.0]

Slightly off topic, but why is there no racing at Ruakaka during these months? Did I miss the memo?

[jess]

Something I wonder about is how they are always talking about applying "foliar sprays" to keep the grass growing nicely.  Track manager mentioned this again in the chat before the day was underway.  Wouldn't we want the grass to be getting what it needs from the soil - urging those roots to go down to get the nutrients & water to grow strong & thrive?

Or is that not possible when the grass (of a type not naturally adapted & bred to grow at the beach) is largely being asked to grow in sand? - there's not much of anything down there for it so it has to be constantly fed "from the top"?  If this is the case - won't we end up with shallow roots, pretty, but fragile grass on top of a friable & unstable substrate liable to break apart?  Or perhaps this is just something required in the early stages when the sward is new? I just wonder what will encourage the sward to have a strong base (root structure) & not just a pretty "top"? 

If there is a lot of sand - what else is going to bind it so if doesn't fall to bits?   When I watched Kate's horse on the replay - you could actually see the hoof hit the ground & a massive divot was released & went flying - so suddenly the horse's foot was no longer where it had placed it - the earth had moved (so to speak) - and it lost its footing.  As I suspected - not the classic skid or slip marks to evidence a "slip".  And the report didn't mention chunks of earth & pretty grass missing (which I guarantee was there to be seen ...) 

(full disclaimer - not an expert in the field by any means - feel free to put me straight if I'm talking rubbish .. nicely if you can 🤣 ... )

 

 

[Special Agent]

10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

She's been interviewed three times now on the same subject but at different tracks.  She seems to be Tracksides "Go To" and I'm wondering who is behind that choice.  Her repeated assertion that the fix is to irrigate more is way off the mark.  Quite ironic really when you consider the other group of stakeholders primarily trainers saying in the past that they irrigate too much!!!  Who would want to be a Track Manager?

As someone eluded to earlier not many are putting their hand up to be interviewed.

Oncourse at Awapuni yesterday, Kate was not the only one suggesting more water.

[Special Agent]

12 hours ago, Murray Fish said:

no human or horse was actually damaged..

Thank goodness.

[jess]

Special - not sure who you were hanging out with - but being on course - did you hear murmurings before Race 1?  Even the hosts were talking about nervousness ... seemed a little unconvinced ... Bevan when he talked about having walked out there said something about how it LOOKS good - with a bit of an emphasis on the "looks" part of the statement - which I wondered at the time whether he was implying it might look better than it actually was ...

Just interested because the NZTR Corporate Comms release said it was a real surprise what happened - but was it? 

[Special Agent]

13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

@Special Agent would you be happy for a Jockey to tell you how to train your horses?  Or would you prefer knowledgeable feedback on how your horse performed in a race?  Theres a difference.

Trainers are told these things all the time.  As Freda indicated, what you choose to do with that information is up to you.

One major change I can see with people over the years is how precious they have become.  Even those who have a very small stake, or none at all, can become quite hostile and personal.