south island apprentice jockeys

[SLB2.0]

No idea who the ex-jockeys are, but don't you think they're qualified to spot a good or bad ride? Given their experience of doing the same thing? And Hassman's lack of experience as a 4kg apprentice?

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

What urgings? She doesn't move a muscle until the race is over.

The horse couldn't keep up early with the field and it had no chance of moving out.  She gave the horse 5 clips with the whip up the straight and the horse barely held its ground.   She had two choices tactically - ride the shyte out of it at the start and hold its position or ride for luck and move off the fence if the opportunity arose AND the horse was good enough.  The first option wasn't an option for that horse.  

Simply on the day the horse wasn't good enough and when it drew one well it was all over.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

No idea who the ex-jockeys are, but don't you think they're qualified to spot a good or bad ride?

 

6 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Given their experience of doing the same thing?

Some are some aren't.  Some were never very good in the first place so how could they spot a good or bad ride when the only time they rode a good ride was when they were on a good horse!

7 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

And Hassman's lack of experience as a 4kg apprentice?

What was she supposed to do to get in the first 3?  Your suggestion is that she should have followed the other horses out into the middle of the track and whipped the shyte out of it.  Well there are rules against doing the latter.

Have you reviewed the race again?  The first four horses drew 8, 7, 10 and 6.  They ALL travelled wide the trip.  Those that were on the immediate outside of Bello Mio turning for home didn't do much better than Bello Mio.

The horse wasn't going well enough.

[Chief Stipe]

You wrote this comment elsewhere:

There was no effort made to get the horse involved in the race. I'm not bagging the jockey, I'm just hoping that, with time, her in-race skills improve. She rode the next winner much better, and that's the type of riding she should at least attempt every ride.

FFS the horse Hassman rode in race 7 drew TWELVE not ONE!!!!  Of course it was going to get a decent run if you are correct in your assertion that the inside was a Heavy 20 and the outside was a Heavy 10!

 

[Chief Stipe]

I see the @Comic Dog wrote this in response to @curious saying the Jockey DID walk the track prior to the meeting:

@Comic Dog Do you know she did???Leggy I know the some owners and they are filthy and so was the trainer afterwards...she did not give the horse a single chance no matter where it was drawn, she made NO effort to ever try to get out off the fence, worst part of the track....she can ride ok but in this particular ride she cocked it up...I am sure her ears were still ringing last night.

I find that hard to believe.  

[SLB2.0]

If Bella Mio was your horse, would you be happy with that ride? Would you concede your horse wasn't good enough? Or would you be wondering what might have happened had it been put into the race at any stage?

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

If Bella Mio was your horse, would you be happy with that ride?

Yes not that it would have made any difference if I did or didn't own it.  I've seen some really bad rides and that wasn't one of them.

10 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Would you concede your horse wasn't good enough?

Yes - yesterday the horse wasn't good enough.

11 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Or would you be wondering what might have happened had it been put into the race at any stage?

If it wasn't going good enough why would I wonder if "it had been put into the race at any stage"?  You haven't actually told us HOW it should have been ridden in your expert opinion.  For that matter nor as your hypocrite friend the @Comic Dog !!!!

I certainly wouldn't have punted on it on a Heavy 10 when drawn 1 especially given its normal racing pattern.  It would have had to lose another couple of lengths to get wide and it had already drifted 3 lengths off the pace (with nowhere to go) soon after the start.  So that's 5 lengths it had to make up by traversing across what you say was the worst part of the ground to get to the good stuff.  

But alledgedly the Trainer (which I don't believe), the owners, the average ex-jockey and you are bagging the ride so I must be wrong.

[Special Agent]

If you put a 4kg claimer on, you must expect a 4kg ride.  Riders can only improve with practice.

[SLB2.0]

Agreed Agent, and that was a 4kg ride.

What would I expect, Chief? I would expect any amount of effort shown. Even if she went hands and heels from the 600-400, at least then I would have known that under riding, the horse was still not good enough.

She showed no vigor at any stage. She sat on it, and those rides are worth questioning. If a senior ride did that, they would get a couple of weeks to think about it. Hopefully, in future, she at least shows some effort to push the horse along.

Chief... what's going on with you? Just because I'm posting on RC now, doesn't mean I don't appreciate this site. It's not a good look for you. Users can enjoy both, as they bring different environments.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

If you put a 4kg claimer on, you must expect a 4kg ride.  Riders can only improve with practice.

I agree but no one has posted what Hassman should have done and when. 

Even @nomates (short for Bob) and @Comic Dog the self proclaimed experts who are too gutless to debate anything head to head.  

[Murray Fish]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Jockey DID walk the track

I know of one who did! and Did ride a winner!

A free picture of the jockey to the first winner!

 

[the galah]

54 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

If Bella Mio was your horse, would you be happy with that ride? Would you concede your horse wasn't good enough? Or would you be wondering what might have happened had it been put into the race at any stage?

I think if it was my horse,i would be conceding it wasn't placed very well by the trainer,(easy to say that in hindsight),running on a heavy wingatui track.And it ran accordingly.

When it ran 2nd at riccarton the winner of that race ran its last 600m in 33.85 whereas yesterday the winner ran its last 600m in 38.55. Nearly all the races yesterday were won by swoopers,mostly down the outside,so as pointed out,drawn 1 and racing midfield made it more unlikely it would get the ideal run..

te akau don't seem to excel much on really wet tracks either.All the factors seemed against it before it even started yesterday and so it turned out.

But i do agree with you that its no big deal to  express an opinion about a ride. Like i did when i started this thread. The opinion i gave i had thought was obvious and was confirmed in the stipes report,but even then some others didn't seem to agree,which is fair enough.

Everyone is always expressing opinions about rides or drives. Its through debating suc h things that we learn what others think and vice versa. Not that what others think means much other than awareness of others opinions.

Edited Saturday at 01:25 AM by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Murray Fish said:

I know of one who did! and Did ride a winner!

A free picture of the jockey to the first winner!

 

A toss up between Kyle Williams or Leah Hemi.

I'll go Hemi even though Williams was my first guess.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Murray Fish said:

I know of one who did! and Did ride a winner!

A free picture of the jockey to the first winner!

 

Nic Yuen?

[Chief Stipe]

On 24/05/2025 at 1:23 PM, the galah said:

I think if it was my horse,i would be conceding it wasn't placed very well by the trainer,(easy to say that in hindsight),running on a heavy wingatui track.And it ran accordingly.

Where else is it going to run in the South Island?  The tracks from here on into the winter aren't going to get any better.

On 24/05/2025 at 1:23 PM, the galah said:

Everyone is always expressing opinions about rides or drives. Its through debating suc h things that we learn what others think and vice versa. Not that what others think means much

I agree to a point.  However if you are going to express an opinion or a critical analysis on a ride or a drive isn't contingent on you to provide your opinion on what SHOULD have been done.  

In my opinion I don't see what Hassamam could have done any differently to get a different result.  

As you point out @the galah the track and the draw were against the horse.

[the galah]

14 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Where else is it going to run in the South Island?  The tracks from here on into the winter aren't going to get any better.

I agree to a point.  However if you are going to express an opinion or a critical analysis on a ride or a drive isn't contingent on you to provide your opinion on what SHOULD have been done.  

In my opinion I don't see what Hassamam could have done any differently to get a different result.  

As you point out @the galah the track and the draw were against the horse.

well , in my opinion,they should be avoiding wingatui ,invercargill and riverton.There seems to be a big differebnce between a heavy 10 at riccarton and a heavy 10 at wingatui.The horse in question stats show its best over 1000m too, so obviously a combination pf a really wet track and  1200m is not where its at its best. The really wet tracks thing also seems to apply to most of the te aku horses. there seems an obvious pattern there.i guess is because they may be training on tracks that are far better than they strike further south,therefore aren't as conditioned for the wetter conditions. 

[SLB2.0]

She should have shown some effort, Chief. Any effort, at all, to get her horse into the race. A couple of weak slaps halfway down the straight isn't good enough.

Horses that aren't picking up by themselves need early encouragement. Sitting dead still on the horse and running in the worst part of the track down the straight isn't good riding.

She's a good young rider, but if I'm paying the bills and my jockey makes no effort at all, I'm not happy - and the owners of Bella Mio were not happy.

[Chief Stipe]

25 minutes ago, the galah said:

well , in my opinion,they should be avoiding wingatui ,invercargill and riverton.There seems to be a big differebnce between a heavy 10 at riccarton and a heavy 10 at wingatui

Early in the Autumn yes - but not now.  Unless you are meaning the Synthetic track which it doesn't have a lot of form on.  Again it comes back to opportunities in terms of programming.

26 minutes ago, the galah said:

The horse in question stats show its best over 1000m too, so obviously a combination pf a really wet track and  1200m is not where its at its best. The really wet tracks thing also seems to apply to most of the te aku horses. there seems an obvious pattern there.i guess is because they may be training on tracks that are far better than they strike further south,therefore aren't as conditioned for the wetter conditions.

Or the horses aren't good enough.  Of course most grandstand trainers are better than the Premiership winners - Mark Walker, Sam Bergerson, Hunter Durant and Ben Gleeson.

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

She should have shown some effort, Chief. Any effort, at all, to get her horse into the race. A couple of weak slaps halfway down the straight isn't good enough.

Yep you're a riding expert too.  Like a couple of very average ex Jockeys.

What was she going to do flay her arms around and bounce up and down like most apprentices do in the South?

11 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

Horses that aren't picking up by themselves need early encouragement. Sitting dead still on the horse and running in the worst part of the track down the straight isn't good riding.

FFS you haven't told us HOW she was going to get to the outside of the track without losing lengths.  If the horse had a soft run then it will be ready again in two weeks.  

14 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said:

She's a good young rider, but if I'm paying the bills and my jockey makes no effort at all, I'm not happy - and the owners of Bella Mio were not happy.

Do you know the owners or are you repeating what @Comic Dog told you?

Apparently the trainer was "filthy" - where is the evidence?

Ok so the owners punted large on a horse that is average at best on a Heavy 10 track drawn 1 with a 4kg claiming apprentice on board.  Easy money for the TAB and as a self-proclaimed betting analyst I'm surprised you backed it.

Perhaps they owners should reflect on the fact that the race wasn't a Grp 1 race worth $600k where a win would secure Horse of the year and ridden by the country's leading Jockey.  

[SLB2.0]

Oh dear... Chief, I don't know what's going on in your personal life, but over the last week, your credibility has dwindled.

"You're a riding expert too. "Self-proclaimed betting analyst" - what the fuck are you on about? It was only a few weeks ago you were asking to catch up for a beer. I make a few posts on RC and suddenly you show your true self.

I hope you can sort things out. You won't have many members left here otherwise.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, SLB2.0 said:

Oh dear... Chief, I don't know what's going on in your personal life, but over the last week, your credibility has dwindled.

"You're a riding expert too. "Self-proclaimed betting analyst" - what the fuck are you on about? It was only a few weeks ago you were asking to catch up for a beer. I make a few posts on RC and suddenly you show your true self.

I hope you can sort things out. You won't have many members left here otherwise.

Didn't take long before the toxicity from you new found mate caught up with you.

It was too long ago you were asking to put paid advertising in this site.

If you want to be in an echo chamber where everyone agrees with each other then fine.

As for my personal life it is none of your business but I assure you I didn't need BOAY to justify my existence nor do I plead and cry in personal emails like Leigh McKenzie does.

Answer the questions I've posed.

Did you hear first hand from the onwers or are you just regurgitating what you have heard elsewhere?

What should the Jockey have done differently that would have altered the result?

 

[SLB2.0]

The only toxicity comes from you, Chief Stipe.

Yes, I was asking to put advertising on this site. Where have I rubbished this site? I still post on here as much as I do elsewhere, and I still support this site.

I don't quite get what you're trying to get at? Do you feel betrayed that I've made amends with some people? I am my own man, and I've never had affiliations with anyone from either site, so instead of crying, how about you stop attacking your most loyal posters.

Take a good look at yourself. You are acting bitter and angry, and now you're having a go at me because I squashed my beef with Leigh. When I didn't like Leigh the most, I believed he was acting exactly as you are now. The tables have seemingly turned, and it's tough to watch.

Sort yourself out

 

[Special Agent]

A couple of points I'd like to make:-

- Who makes a huge punt on a 4kg claimer?

- There is a big difference of being proficient on a mechanical horse, and knowing how to get the best out of a real one.  It takes time and practice.

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Early in the Autumn yes - but not now.  Unless you are meaning the Synthetic track which it doesn't have a lot of form on.  Again it comes back to opportunities in terms of programming.

Or the horses aren't good enough.  Of course most grandstand trainers are better than the Premiership winners - Mark Walker, Sam Bergerson, Hunter Durant and Ben Gleeson.

but the stats say there is a difference now.

we are in may.

so if you look up the average rainfall. christchurch is 55mm  and dunedin 63mm. not that much difference.

but theres a big difference when it comes to sunshine hours. christchurch average is 6.1 per day ,dunedin only 3. christchurch averages 7 days on which rain falls and dunedin 17.

so if your a trainer with a horse that doesn't like really deep heavy tracks,why would you target dunedin? .

so your commenrt about grandstand trainers is rather silly. dismissing my comments on the basis the trainers can win a premiership, i think thats very flawed logic.

I actually backed the horse in question at riccarton when it ran 2nd,but discarded it at wingatui based on not running on a suitable track.turned out i was right.

Edited Monday at 02:05 AM by the galah

[Murray Fish]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

doesn't like really deep heavy tracks

I was on course,  It didn't take long for them to make their runs over where the official car were  driven. I asked one trainer after they had a win how they would describe the track, Not sure they said! they are running slow times on it.