southern surge

[the galah]

On the hrnz website news,it currently has an article about a new concept,the southern surge,which it says will be 8  $15,000 heats  on  both 3 august and 10 august,then 8 finals worth $25,000 on 24 august.

Now i get the idea that southern harness racing participants will have been unhappy to see the preferential treatment auckland gets and probably have felt neglected to a degree by hrnz.and i agree they should have more funds directed there way.

But,in my opinion, this southern surge thing is just another example of why i think mugs are in charge..

for a start they have excluded horses trained north of the waitaki river.

so when it came to auckland,hrnz said it was hoped the series they had with the bigger stakes,would hopefully attract horses that were trained in canterbury.

But when it comes to the southland series,HRNZ actually have made the conditions so they don't get any canterbury horses.

does hrnz realise ,canterbury is in the south island as is southland.

i mean,its like HRNZ are going with the stategy that,hey we aren't sure whether we should be wanting horses from canterbury racing elsewhere,as canterbury needs them,so lets  apply 2 contradictory race conditions for the auckland and southland series,then at least we can say we were right half the time.

So no canterbury horses will race at these southland meetings,because they are excluded..

O.k.last year there were only a handful of horses trained in canterbury that raced in southland in august,but when you publically state that the idea behind the southern surge series is to have more horses start in southland in  august,then why exclude them,

I mean,a halfwit could have come up with better race conditions,they could have say allowed the canterbury horses who had raced x number of times in southland over the previous 6 months,to be rewarded by being eligible,but no. 

will that series result in more southland and otago horses being kept in training in the coldest part of the year in the coldest area of nz so they can run in these races. Well most likely you will get another half dozen that do that . But thats only going to offset the losing the canterbury horses they are saying ,don't come to southland.

And i've followed harness racing long enough to know, that horses that race in the winter in southland ,have to take a break sometime and being trained through a Southland winter is also obviously harder on them and thats a pattern which i have observed in their form.

i read that the southern surge concept was part of the southland peoples idea.

Given that,i previously had expressed an opinion on here that southland people should have more input into race programming,well i think this is an example of actually why they shouldn't.

heres the thing which helps proves my point.

they have what they call a winter rewards races.

they currently have one for horses trained north and  south of the waitaki.

they have programmed 3 finals for the pacers and 2 for the trotters in both districts,to be run in july..

to be eligible you have to have started 3 times between 1/5/2025 and 6/7/2024.

almost halfway through the qualifying time frame and the north of the waitaki already have 62 pacers and 22 trotters eligible.

the south of the waitaki have 25 pacers and only 2 trotters who meet the required criteria.

giving the bread and butter horses from southland an oppurtunity to race for better money is a good thing,but its not a good thing when its done at a time which will have minimum impact.

[Nowornever]

At least if more Canterbury horses were involved there would be variation in form and bigger fields.

Bigger dividends and more even contests creates more turnover in my opinion, but these guys are working on the Albion Park style of racing which is 7 horse fields and 1.50 favourites which is a total turnoff for me.

Fair enough if they are trying to keep the money in Southland but not good for the overall industry.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Nowornever said:

At least if more Canterbury horses were involved there would be variation in form and bigger fields.

Bigger dividends and more even contests creates more turnover in my opinion, but these guys are working on the Albion Park style of racing which is 7 horse fields and 1.50 favourites which is a total turnoff for me.

Fair enough if they are trying to keep the money in Southland but not good for the overall industry.

thats the thing.

Hrnz giving special treatment to auckland has consequences.

one of those is,quite rightly areas who have similar issues with lack of numbers,like southland say what about us.

so hrnz throw some money there way to placate them.

and all the while the industry coffers get depleted as more meetings run at greater losses.

and the reactionary short term fixs ,it could be argued are only hastening the train thats coming and is carrying the day of financial reckoning.

HRNZ appears driven by reactionary thinking to those who have their ear or complain the most or are the most desperate.

And what seems to being obviously overlooked is the final stronghold of harness racing ,the canterbury area,will be silently haemorrhaging breeder,trainer,horse numbers.

Those in canterbury, who just sit there and say nothing to protect the industry in their area,in my opinion will deserve whats coming in the future. 

i have no doubt about that .

so who are canterbury's highest profile trainers who i've never read say anything about protecting canterbury..

the dunns and the telfers. the ones with the stables in auckland.

its all driven by self interest.I'm just pointing out the obvious. .

expressing opinions on sites like this won't any difference.other than to niggle some people who may read it ,

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:34 AM by the galah

[Brodie]

It is very surprising how so few actually comment about the situation that harness racing is going to find itself in, when the great cash splash 5 years is up?

HRNZ has come into all this extra funding coming from the promised funds from Entain for 5 years!

They are like a kid who gets this unexpected money and they  go hell for leather to spend it all, on anything whether it is for stuff they need or not!

No offence intended, however personally believe they are not acting financially fiscally with the cash from Entain.

Unfortunately it will hit Harness racing with a big thump when it stops snd the stakes are dramatically reduced!

does anyone actually believe that the stakes at the current levels will remain or increase in the years ahead?

 

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

does anyone actually believe that the stakes at the current levels will remain or increase in the years ahead?

you've had some Big big races the past 3 years introduced. The funding is mainly supplied by the slot holders.

The Betcha Race , the Race by Grins , TAB trot and also the Ascent and Velocity for 3 year olds have all come in to play and mean at long last the Top Tier horses can race for a modern day good prize and get reward for being the Best. 

The money is bulky supplied by the purchase of a slot . these are keenly sort after and HRNZ only puts in a small percentage of the money that is the Purse for the race. alas the Aussies are cleaning up a fair bit of it currently , but am sure the kiwi's can train Up and fight back ? as they have done at Interdominion level for decades ( until Covid struck anyway ) 

Therefore This is the way of the Future (and the present) Just run more slot races. owners buy their way in , and the best horses turn up , and actually win some good money for a change. 

with owners paying to start in the Slots, This is leaving cash for HRNZ to run more things like the Southern Surge . good on em' . doing a good job. you NEED YEAR ROUND Racing to keep people in the game .  

 

[Chief Stipe]

49 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Therefore This is the way of the Future (and the present) Just run more slot races. owners buy their way in , and the best horses turn up , and actually win some good money for a change. 

with owners paying to start in the Slots,

Just a minor point.  Slot onwers are not necessarily the owners of the horses that race in the slots.  Some slots are owned by Trainers, some by Studs and in rare cases speculating investors.  Although the horses may appear to race for large amounts in some cases they only get a percentage of those winnings because the majority goes to the slot owner.  Yes a winning horse slot holder might very well be the same person who owns a horse.

[Westview]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

you've had some Big big races the past 3 years introduced. The funding is mainly supplied by the slot holders.

The Betcha Race , the Race by Grins , TAB trot and also the Ascent and Velocity for 3 year olds have all come in to play and mean at long last the Top Tier horses can race for a modern day good prize and get reward for being the Best. 

The money is bulky supplied by the purchase of a slot . these are keenly sort after and HRNZ only puts in a small percentage of the money that is the Purse for the race. alas the Aussies are cleaning up a fair bit of it currently , but am sure the kiwi's can train Up and fight back ? as they have done at Interdominion level for decades ( until Covid struck anyway ) 

Therefore This is the way of the Future (and the present) Just run more slot races. owners buy their way in , and the best horses turn up , and actually win some good money for a change. 

with owners paying to start in the Slots, This is leaving cash for HRNZ to run more things like the Southern Surge . good on em' . doing a good job. you NEED YEAR ROUND Racing to keep people in the game .  

 

For the first year of slots race's in NZ HRNZ only put in a small percentage of the money, not so now.

[mikeynz]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

It is very surprising how so few actually comment about the situation that harness racing is going to find itself in, when the great cash splash 5 years is up?

HRNZ has come into all this extra funding coming from the promised funds from Entain for 5 years!

They are like a kid who gets this unexpected money and they  go hell for leather to spend it all, on anything whether it is for stuff they need or not!

No offence intended, however personally believe they are not acting financially fiscally with the cash from Entain.

Unfortunately it will hit Harness racing with a big thump when it stops snd the stakes are dramatically reduced!

does anyone actually believe that the stakes at the current levels will remain or increase in the years ahead?

 

I think harness racing, maybe the gallops as well may be living beyond their means, they have been paying stakes that based on the income( turnover) has been out of synch, so I guess they will take the cash at present with open arms, in the event of stakes being slashed in future they will be the first to grizzle, but it will certainly be a test of whether they like their horses or whether just their to create jobs, livelihood etc etc.

Just like the greyhounds, will all these guys with their 50 60 or 70 dogs like their dogs when they start costing money to keep when not earning, it's all about self preservation.

I've often thought that there has been a certain sector of the galloping hierarchy, some of those flash Harry's in the North who are backing Winston into parliament for their own means, so far they got 30 mill for a couple of AWTs,  yes they ain't in the North but they are still galloping tracks and now greasing up to Winston wanting the TAB control of the betting, remembering they are wanting their hands on the cash Entain are bribing them to get the legislation through, it's all about self preservation, irrespective some times if it's ethical or not.

As for the Southern Surge, another example of putting more money in stakes without lifting income, making hay while the sun shines.

Edited Tuesday at 11:53 PM by mikeynz

[Chief Stipe]

47 minutes ago, Westview said:

For the first year of slots race's in NZ HRNZ only put in a small percentage of the money, not so now.

Are they putting in more or less?

[Gammalite]

16 hours ago, Nowornever said:

Bigger dividends and more even contests creates more turnover in my opinion, but these guys are working on the Albion Park style of racing which is 7 horse fields and 1.50 favourites

Well was going to shoot down your theory there, but you're sort of right in a way.

Albion Park supplies every horse with a chance to win with the Metro races every Saturday night for the 1.50 to 1.54 capable horses. Tuesdays have the 1.54-1.56 and Fridays have the 1.56 to 1.58 MR capable horses.

usually near full fields of 10 for the 10 races on each card.  so near 300 horses each week get a start for 30 winners.

What the hell is wrong with that ?

BUT , you speak as a Punter so you are correct there are few betting on these races. They run way to much to form. So the odds are indeed short as you say. I rarely bet on them. 

Tuesday last week winning prices:  $12, $6, $4, $18, $1.40, $2, $3, $2.50, $1.20, $1.40

Friday last week winning prices:  $1.20, $4.80, $1.75 (Demon Blue first up from NZ) $1.20, $2, $4, $1.05, $2, $1.70, $9

Saturday night Metro horses:  $1.60, $1.40, $3, $6, $4.20, $2.50, $2.50, $13, $1.50, $1.50

Yesterday Tuesday Albion :  $2.20, $6.50, $6.50, $2.20, $8, $3.20, $8 and $1.40 

So the Favourite WON 25 of the last 40 races at Albion !! I say that's a good thing . Honesty and Integrity HIGH.

But not great to Bet on .  

Just use the gallops if you want good prices. ( and take your chances they're in a race they can win 🤣🤣  )at least the trotters and pacers are EXTREMELY more consistent at winning . 

 

[Westview]

50 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are they putting in more or less?

10 horse's 1,000,000 stakes, 60,000 buy in , considerably more.

[Gammalite]

3 minutes ago, Westview said:

10 horse's 1,000,000 stakes, 60,000 buy in , considerably more.

well it was worth it to get LEAP TO FAME in the country wasn't it ? Seymour doesn't need the money though so ask him to give it Back ? To run the BEST race in the country Ever,  should cost HRNZ something surely?.  

Good on em' if they chipped in 400k. (chickenfeed compared to what galloping clubs put in for their Top races. )

 actually he (Kevin Seymour)  has sponsored Millions of dollars into races for decades so Bloody good on him. getting the Best horse of All time after all that support. Should be winning some of the Breeders Finals this week too with his support cast lol 😂💰💰. 

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are they putting in more or less?

Heaps more Chief!

Answered for Westview lol

[Brodie]

Gamma, the only reason the stakes are what they are currently is due to the Cash splash fro Entain.

This is a serious mismanagement of funds from HRNZ as it is falsifying things for another 2 years or so and then we will see just how badly managed this $900m has been!

Seriously you can not run any business the way they are operating currently, we will find out this majorly!

Who would be wanting to breed and race horses in 2 years time, certainly no one with any financial sense, and wont be enticing enough for any new participants!

Just have to shake our heads and not hold our breath!

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Heaps more Chief!

Answered for Westview lol

How much more?  What are HRNZ contributing to the Slot races?  Aka the Sweepstake races.  For those of us that are really old that's what we all race for 100 years ago.  My horse vs your horse and what would you punt to beat it.

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Gamma, the only reason the stakes are what they are currently is due to the Cash splash fro Entain.

This is a serious mismanagement of funds from HRNZ as it is falsifying things for another 2 years or so and then we will see just how badly managed this $900m has been!

Seriously you can not run any business the way they are operating currently, we will find out this majorly!

Who would be wanting to breed and race horses in 2 years time, certainly no one with any financial sense, and wont be enticing enough for any new participants!

Just have to shake our heads and not hold our breath!

 

well just enjoy them while they're running in that case then mate.

You and I would allocate stakes different to what they do , and it's easy to pick holes in the Southern Surge as The Galah did early in this thread , but it's just some INNOVATION that someone has made to give local Southern Trainers some REWARD for EFFORT. good on em' for giving it a go I spose. tough life down there as a trainer. 

We have a feature 3 and 4 year old trotter $150,000 coming up here in Brissy soon. (Bet N Win was fav for it last year after winning the lead-up but had to scratch injured unfortunately.)  I think it is a bit of a waste of funds as not enough 3 and 4 year old trotters around this neck of the woods to even justify that sort of money. (think some NSW trotter won it both times so far)  I Would run another Whole race-day instead with the $150,00 lol . 😂 10 WINNERS is way way better than one winner for the owners and Punters lol 👍🤣

Ashburton has too big a prizemoney on Sunday ? $15,000 maiden Race 2 with a Way too excessive size field ?? to even give most of them a chance ? that's a waste . could have 2 x $7,500 maidens instead with 8 runners in each and get 2 lots of winning connections ,( instead of having 7 more horses with zeroes in their formline. ) so yeah there is plenty they could do better to get more WINNERS. 

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Gammalite said:

well it was worth it to get LEAP TO FAME in the country wasn't it ? Seymour doesn't need the money though so ask him to give it Back ? To run the BEST race in the country Ever,  should cost HRNZ something surely?.  

Good on em' if they chipped in 400k. (chickenfeed compared to what galloping clubs put in for their Top races. )

 actually he (Kevin Seymour)  has sponsored Millions of dollars into races for decades so Bloody good on him. getting the Best horse of All time after all that support. Should be winning some of the Breeders Finals this week too with his support cast lol 😂💰💰. 

But as i pointed out at the time,thats not the case.

proof of that was the 2025 hunter cup. It had a significantly slashed prizemoney,1/4 of the nz cup,yet it got the best field to race in the last year in australasia..

and you say the prizemoney of the slot race got leap to fame to nz.

so using the prizemoney the connectiions earned from the slot race as being the level at which nz can entice the best from aussie here,why did mr steele go around telling people a million$ nz cup was what was needed to get them here. Clearly he was wrong. And why would he tell people having a million$ nz cup would result in higher turnover than a $750,000 stake.

like whio would argue that punters will bet more on a $750,000 race with the same field thand a million$ race with the same field. yhnvlike the fields the same,but pun

i mean,if people are going to say one thing and the reality is another,and you point that out to people and they still stick to what they are saying,then you going to think they aren't too clever.(not meaning you gammalite)

[Chief Stipe]

Part of the problem with all the critics is they don't understand that one particular race turnover doeen't need to fund that race's stake.  That's a @TAB For Ever cost accountant approach.

[Gammalite]

7 minutes ago, the galah said:

But as i pointed out at the time,thats not the case.

proof of that was the 2025 hunter cup. It had a significantly slashed prizemoney,1/4 of the nz cup,yet it got the best field to race in the last year in australasia..

and you say the prizemoney of the slot race got leap to fame to nz.

so using the prizemoney the connectiions earned from the slot race as being the level at which nz can entice the best from aussie here,why did mr steele go around telling people a million$ nz cup was what was needed to get them here. Clearly he was wrong. And why would he tell people having a million$ nz cup would result in higher turnover than a $750,000 stake.

like whio would argue that punters will bet more on a $750,000 race with the same field thand a million$ race with the same field. yhnvlike the fields the same,but pun

i mean,if people are going to say one thing and the reality is another,and you point that out to people and they still stick to what they are saying,then you going to think they aren't too clever.(not meaning you gammalite)

I agree with you Mr Galah. The NZ Cup too much 💰 as well . Perhaps if $500k total , and the fabulous NZ FFA $400k total as well 3 days later , we get the best horses racing in the best races and save a few bucks . and hopefully SWAYZEE (and Leap To Fame) wouldn't be bothered turning up to plunder the NZ riches. They aren't helping NZ harness in the slightest. just more of a dagger really. ( even though I love International competition) 

They're trying to run the Interdominion ( the Magnificent 'traditional NZ v Aus contest'  that has entertained generations of harness lovers) for $1,000,000 as a promotion. That indeed,  should be the Million dollar race Mr Steel promotes. And also tries to get back to Addington at some stage for a turn ??? haven't had it there since Baltic Eagle, a long time ago.  Carter will be in Brissie soon with his star 'Pub'. love him to win it like YULESTAR did once 🏆😎

 

[the galah]

12 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

You and I would allocate stakes different to what they do , and it's easy to pick holes in the Southern Surge as The Galah did early in this thread , but it's just some INNOVATION that someone has made to give local Southern Trainers some REWARD for EFFORT. good on em' for giving it a go I spose. tough life down there as a trainer. 

 

heres the quote from m peden from hrnz in that press release.He says a lot of stuff that anyone could pick holes in.

"we want to see more racing(horses) which in turn will see more wagering and engagement"

the same press release says ..the southern surge is open to only horses trained south of the waitaki.

so,if you want more horses to race at those meetings,why programme races that guarantees you won't get any canterbury horses at those meetings.

and as i pointed out. What about the winter rewards.

so far ,half way through the qualifying timeframe,they have only 2 trotters who have met the criteria. They have 6 that have raced enough,but 4 are non winners and the winter rewards excludeses no winners.

so there you already have 2 $25,000 races and its done next to nothing to get any extra horses race there.

Personally i think southland should close down over winter like they used to because they simply don't have enough horses ro race all year around. By encoutraging people to keep their horses racing and in training over winter is guaranteed to dilute their product at other stages of the year.

30 years ago they had several hundred more horses in training throughout southland and they had no winter racing,but now when they have got such a significantly reduced numbers,they think they can race all year around. it makes no sense and the proof is in the pudding when you look at field sizes and betting product attractiveness.

[Chief Stipe]

4 hours ago, Westview said:

10 horse's 1,000,000 stakes, 60,000 buy in , considerably more.

So less than the Slot buyers.  Which Slot race are you referring to?

[Doomed]

Some good contributions above. There are 3 or 4 harness contributors who always make well thought through intelligent posts.

The thing that I can never understand, in both Harness racing and the gallops, is that Entain seem happy enough to just hand over the money and say to the codes "do what you like with it", but they never seem to then follow up by saying :Hey, hold on, we did think you would use the money to help boost turnovers."

Neither code sees optimising turnovers as a priority with the cash windfall they have been given. When the money train runs dry there seems to be absolutely no plan B.

[the galah]

7 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I agree with you Mr Galah. The NZ Cup too much 💰 as well . Perhaps if $500k total , and the fabulous NZ FFA $400k total as well 3 days later , we get the best horses racing in the best races and save a few bucks . and hopefully SWAYZEE (and Leap To Fame) wouldn't be bothered turning up to plunder the NZ riches. They aren't helping NZ harness in the slightest. just more of a dagger really. ( even though I love International competition) 

They're trying to run the Interdominion ( the Magnificent 'traditional NZ v Aus contest'  that has entertained generations of harness lovers) for $1,000,000 as a promotion. That indeed,  should be the Million dollar race Mr Steel promotes. And also tries to get back to Addington at some stage for a turn ??? haven't had it there since Baltic Eagle, a long time ago.  Carter will be in Brissie soon with his star 'Pub'. love him to win it like YULESTAR did once 🏆😎

 

I agree the $500,000 gammalite more realistic.

thats about what they will run for in say 5 years,.

the reason i and others think the big races and aged froup features need to have reduced stakes is simply because we believe stakes will have to be reduced in the future because of the current overspending. In other words be financially responsible now and you can have much more to go around in the future.

And its also because we believe its illogical to do whatever you can to support and maintain participation at the highest level when those  are the races that mostly run at significant losses....while on the other hand doingnext to nothing to encourage those who breed and race their horses at the meetings that run at a profit .

in other words hrnz policies currently is to prioritise and over invest in the loss making side of the harness racing product and under invest in the profit making side.

i mean,ask yourself,does that make any sense.

 

[Chief Stipe]

24 minutes ago, Doomed said:

The thing that I can never understand, in both Harness racing and the gallops, is that Entain seem happy enough to just hand over the money and say to the codes "do what you like with it", but they never seem to then follow up by saying :Hey, hold on, we did think you would use the money to help boost turnovers."

How do you know that they aren't influencing decisions by HRNZ?

[Brodie]

The truth of the matter is that Entain do not really care about racing in NZ despite what some may think!

They are a Sports and gaming company, not racing!

Spend the 900m on stakes in NZ we do not care, we only want the Sports and online casino for 20 years.

HRNZ and other racing sold out to the wrong crowd.

Where are the spokes people for Entain coming out and denying that what Brodie and others know is not correct?

They will not because we are on the money.