dates calendar

[the galah]

can anyone follow the press release on the hrnz website.

it says "for harness it features 6 additional race dates compared to the 2024/25 season.They are addington(2),auckland (4),including 1 at ruakaka,methven,banks peninsula and oamaru(2)."

i mean,whatever way you read that press statement,it doesn't add up to 6. Thats not the first time they have realeased statements that made little sense around figures. 

[mikeynz]

25 minutes ago, the galah said:

can anyone follow the press release on the hrnz website.

it says "for harness it features 6 additional race dates compared to the 2024/25 season.They are addington(2),auckland (4),including 1 at ruakaka,methven,banks peninsula and oamaru(2)."

i mean,whatever way you read that press statement,it doesn't add up to 6. Thats not the first time they have realeased statements that made little sense around figures. 

They were going to have 15 but they've scrubbed some.

[the galah]

39 minutes ago, mikeynz said:

They were going to have 15 but they've scrubbed some.

yes. in that same press release it says they have scrubbed 9 of the 15 ,and names them.

But they also said in the same press release they have 6 new meetings and then named more than 6.

isn't that an indication the numbers people aren't good with numbers. they are either poor with numbers or poor with the wording they use to describe their numbers. In this case it comes acrros that they can't add even small numbers(again)..

[WOLF]

IT IS THE SAME ABACUS THEY USE TO WORK OUT HOW WELL AUCKLAND TROTTING CLUB IS DOING.

SORRY ATC.

[the galah]

the latest comment that makes no sense to me again comes from mr peden,who in the short hrnz press release about the cambridge meeting that was cancelled said

"we are looking at putting some of the stakes cambridge lost this week back into the region,just how it looks is to be determined"

Now what is the logic behind such a comment. 

Does he not realise there was a race meeting 2 hours up the road that the horses from cambridge could have started in.

Or why couldn't they have just said ,hey lets transfer those 4 races they could have held at cambridge,to be run at auckland.even use the same nominations to select the fields,run them for the same stake or whatever.

Why is mr peden saying things that encourages people to say,hey if we don't go to auckland then we will get a bigger stake down the track.

does mr peden not realise that the shortage of horses was caused by,you guessed iit ,a shortage of horses.

Wheres his consistency. hes never said before that when there  were programmed races at cambridge that weren't run he thought they should do the same.. i.e. when they only run 6 races,if his thinking is consistent,why hasn't he said the stake from the races programmed and  not run on those nights, will go into the region.

Why did they just add 4 new meetings to next years calendar in the auckland region.Can't they work out they don't have enough horses in that region to justify that.

Also,where is the proof that running races like the southern surge or the golden gait or whatever,with the increased stakes,generates more overall starters throughout the year. If you look at auckland.all i see was people aimed at the bigger stakes,but did they actually race more over the season or will they do so in the future. If hes a so called data man,can he show us the data which says its more beneficial to put the money into  high stake races on certain nights than it is to apply the increased stakes in lesser amounts across the board of all racing.

these are the people at hrnz who came up with the 2 year old bonuses,which have done nothing to increase th number of starters in 2 year old races. These are the same people who said having a million dollar nz cup was needed. Where is the evidence having  big stakes for those races did anything to get the connections of the horses at that level to start more in other open class races throughout the season.

Also what strikes me about the auckland trainers is,put simply,they are far more wealthy on average than anywhere else in nz. Yet they are the ones HRNZ think need the support more. How does that make sense.

oh well,in my opinion,its all just groundhog day.

Edited 21 hours ago by the galah

[Brodie]

Cambridge cancellation due to shortage of numbers.

Harness need to realise that until HRNZ realise that they need to be running harness racing as a business things are going to continue to falter!

Brad Steele stating on Trackside a few weeks ago that things are going well just shows us all just how poorly they are performing.

The only reason things have held up is due to the constant stream of money that was promised racing and this is going to end.

Racing for $8k is probably what a lot of the meetings will be once Entain pot of gold comes to an end.

reality is that HRNZ have acted very irresponsibly with the money they have been given 

[mikeynz]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Cambridge cancellation due to shortage of numbers.

Harness need to realise that until HRNZ realise that they need to be running harness racing as a business things are going to continue to falter!

Brad Steele stating on Trackside a few weeks ago that things are going well just shows us all just how poorly they are performing.

The only reason things have held up is due to the constant stream of money that was promised racing and this is going to end.

Racing for $8k is probably what a lot of the meetings will be once Entain pot of gold comes to an end.

reality is that HRNZ have acted very irresponsibly with the money they have been given 

Brodie I wouldn't worry about things, if the stakes are reduced then the stakes are reduced, it would be a learning curve, Iive within your means, shame they ain't doing that now but it's not sustainable based on the income,(turnover) but at present with small fields and good stakes the few left racing horses are probably doing very well, but nothing last forever.

The 2 meetings up North is not sustainable every week, I think they are starting to see that, they survive nicely at the other end of the country with 1 day, I don't even think they want any more days, just make use of the ones they have.

Same things happening to some of our sport, the Netballers are slowly dieing off and unless the Rugby union can move Sky on the NPC then many in that will be taking a pay cut too, Moana Pacifica is another example, money's not plentiful for many of us, fact.

Edited 17 hours ago by mikeynz

[mikeynz]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

 

Also,where is the proof that running races like the southern surge.

The Southern surge has got good numbers, surprisingly but the weather has been kind there this Winter that helps.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Cambridge cancellation due to shortage of numbers.

Harness need to realise that until HRNZ realise that they need to be running harness racing as a business things are going to continue to falter!

well they don't run it as a fish and chips shop mate .and hope customers 'roll up for a feed at random.

of course they run it as it is a business. you're just so used to sinking the boot in , you can't help yourself.

The HRNZ have done an Outstanding Job in recent years , and possibly returns a profit , where-as a lot of Aussie states run at a loss. HRNZ have even put fabulous races on that the Aussies have been plundering for the past 3 years now , which is probably a bad thing , as the monies are all going overseas. 

A Victim of it's own success ? 😅🏆. there are better prizes than ever up for grabs in VERY trying times for the average household. A sign HRNZ have outstanding staff and business acumen ( it's you that doesn't 😋 ) 

Horse Racing Is ON THE NOSE of the general public mate.

I'll give you an example . The Melbourne Cup . A huge Australian Tradition, part of the development fabric of the nation,  on the World Stage even . BUT in the past 20 years it's gone from 80% public interested to 2024 ONLY 20% of the nation recognizing the race was even being run. Horse Racing is FADING mate. 

so APPLAUD the efforts of your country mates at HRNZ . They've done a Sterling job in the face of Adversity ( adversity being the public acceptance of horse racing in 2025) 

I saw LEAP TO FAME . the Best horses ever Australasia. Win at Cambridge ??? who would of thought that possible 5 years ago. and Arcee Phoenix , the INTERDOMINION Champion , has won at Cambridge and raced Addington. Never thought I would see such sensational racing in my lifetime . We OWE HRNZ much thanks for this sort of stuff. 

HRNZ doing an Outstanding job. Getting the best in the World at their tracks . And you still complain about them.🤔

Nothing makes you guys happy. No Government could do it . no race club can do it either 😅🤣.

I say WELL done HRNZ .  Champions in a world of pain. Keep up the amazing work and See ya Cup week !!!! 🏆 for more outstanding racing .  

[Nowornever]

5 hours ago, the galah said:

If hes a so called data man,can he show us the data which says its more beneficial to put the money into  high stake races on certain nights than it is to apply the increased stakes in lesser amounts across the board of all racing.

Just making it up as they go along. 

I have never had a survey asking what would encourage me to bet more or buy into more horses. Have they asked anyone related to the industry in betting or ownership/training apart from the purdons dunns telfers?

I bet the top half a dozen stables want bigger races with bigger stakes and anyone lower in the pecking order wants more in the bottom end. Unfortunately the more powerful stables probably get priority. 

[Brodie]

5 hours ago, Gammalite said:

well they don't run it as a fish and chips shop mate .and hope customers 'roll up for a feed at random.

of course they run it as it is a business. you're just so used to sinking the boot in , you can't help yourself.

The HRNZ have done an Outstanding Job in recent years , and possibly returns a profit , where-as a lot of Aussie states run at a loss. HRNZ have even put fabulous races on that the Aussies have been plundering for the past 3 years now , which is probably a bad thing , as the monies are all going overseas. 

A Victim of it's own success ? 😅🏆. there are better prizes than ever up for grabs in VERY trying times for the average household. A sign HRNZ have outstanding staff and business acumen ( it's you that doesn't 😋 ) 

Horse Racing Is ON THE NOSE of the general public mate.

I'll give you an example . The Melbourne Cup . A huge Australian Tradition, part of the development fabric of the nation,  on the World Stage even . BUT in the past 20 years it's gone from 80% public interested to 2024 ONLY 20% of the nation recognizing the race was even being run. Horse Racing is FADING mate. 

so APPLAUD the efforts of your country mates at HRNZ . They've done a Sterling job in the face of Adversity ( adversity being the public acceptance of horse racing in 2025) 

I saw LEAP TO FAME . the Best horses ever Australasia. Win at Cambridge ??? who would of thought that possible 5 years ago. and Arcee Phoenix , the INTERDOMINION Champion , has won at Cambridge and raced Addington. Never thought I would see such sensational racing in my lifetime . We OWE HRNZ much thanks for this sort of stuff. 

HRNZ doing an Outstanding job. Getting the best in the World at their tracks . And you still complain about them.🤔

Nothing makes you guys happy. No Government could do it . no race club can do it either 😅🤣.

I say WELL done HRNZ .  Champions in a world of pain. Keep up the amazing work and See ya Cup week !!!! 🏆 for more outstanding racing .  

Agree to disagree Gamma! Lol

They are only able to put up the current stake money due to Entain and  that is going to stop!

Personally do not think they have administered harness racing at all well, but at the end of the day hopefully you are right and more than happy to be proven wrong in 2 years.

To my mind  They should have slowly implemented stake rises this way all the money would not have been blown .

Anyway good that we can have a healthy debate about things.

What would be good is if Mathew Peden or Brad Steele who represent HRNZ would come on BOAY and reassure us all that things are going along nicely!

 

[Gammalite]

8 hours ago, Brodie said:

Agree to disagree Gamma! Lol

They are only able to put up the current stake money due to Entain and  that is going to stop!

Personally do not think they have administered harness racing at all well, but at the end of the day hopefully you are right and more than happy to be proven wrong in 2 years.

To my mind  They should have slowly implemented stake rises this way all the money would not have been blown .

Anyway good that we can have a healthy debate about things.

What would be good is if Mathew Peden or Brad Steele who represent HRNZ would come on BOAY and reassure us all that things are going along nicely!

 

I think what you forget Brodster is When Sponsors and Supporters of a sport PUT up there Cash to support or sponsor a race or an Event, there are TIME LIMITS involved.

It's like a footballer Contract . you Pay up so much cash spread out over the Calculated time frame of a contract.

I would suggest that the ENTAIN money is being used by professional people for the 250 odd NZ meeting per year , at a rate that is calculated within a time Period. i.e so much has to be allocated Annually. it's how business works. 

I agree with you that sure it would be nice to think you calculate monies/funding/sponsorships for 2030 and beyond , BUT You can't mate. You have to live in the moment .

AND all you blokes keep saying the turnover has dropped off , and trotting won't be around in the North Island in 5 years time anyway , old Maurice, Barry, Tony , Ray Green, And a few others will be retired. And Trotting will BE NO MORE. you will all just have to go to the gallops lol 😎🏇

So Might as well use The MONEY now mate. I do think it's a shame most of it, is going to Aussie these days from the Big races , as that is only speeding up the Ultimate demise of NZ Harness Racing .  you don't have the guts of Seymour or anyone like that to keep it going.

Must say Dean Shannon and also the Stonewall bloke (Stockman and his partner Jill )  are doing their Very best at Sales and punting and Racing syndicating with your great trainers to Keep it going a year or two longer. so Big shout out to them for meritous efforts lately. good to see some still 'Having a Go ' at the great sport. 

[Brodie]

17 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I think what you forget Brodster is When Sponsors and Supporters of a sport PUT up there Cash to support or sponsor a race or an Event, there are TIME LIMITS involved.

It's like a footballer Contract . you Pay up so much cash spread out over the Calculated time frame of a contract.

I would suggest that the ENTAIN money is being used by professional people for the 250 odd NZ meeting per year , at a rate that is calculated within a time Period. i.e so much has to be allocated Annually. it's how business works. 

I agree with you that sure it would be nice to think you calculate monies/funding/sponsorships for 2030 and beyond , BUT You can't mate. You have to live in the moment .

AND all you blokes keep saying the turnover has dropped off , and trotting won't be around in the North Island in 5 years time anyway , old Maurice, Barry, Tony , Ray Green, And a few others will be retired. And Trotting will BE NO MORE. you will all just have to go to the gallops lol 😎🏇

So Might as well use The MONEY now mate. I do think it's a shame most of it, is going to Aussie these days from the Big races , as that is only speeding up the Ultimate demise of NZ Harness Racing .  you don't have the guts of Seymour or anyone like that to keep it going.

Must say Dean Shannon and also the Stonewall bloke (Stockman and his partner Jill )  are doing their Very best at Sales and punting and Racing syndicating with your great trainers to Keep it going a year or two longer. so Big shout out to them for meritous efforts lately. good to see some still 'Having a Go ' at the great sport. 

Gamma, the thing is, it is totally different in the case of the Entain money!

Entain have not promised the $900m to support or sponsor racing in NZ!

It was purely the carrot that was dangled by them to enable them to get access to the profits from online gambling and sports betting for 25 years!

The TAB and McAnulty were sucked into it hook line and  sinker, and we will pay unfortunately.

Do you really believe that Entain really gives a rats about racing in NZ.

You mention about Entain saying how much spent each year, well it shouldve been negotiated far better by the NZ TAB!

Entain knew what they were doing, they are a ruthless gambling business just like the other ones around the world.

They are no ones mate and we will be seeing this, it is about making a good return for its shareholders, so they take no prisoners.

[Westview]

13 hours ago, Nowornever said:

Just making it up as they go along. 

I have never had a survey asking what would encourage me to bet more or buy into more horses. Have they asked anyone related to the industry in betting or ownership/training apart from the purdons dunns telfers?

I bet the top half a dozen stables want bigger races with bigger stakes and anyone lower in the pecking order wants more in the bottom end. Unfortunately the more powerful stables probably get priority. 

Never let the facts get in the way, after last years conference I ask John Dunn exactly that if you had more money to put into stakes where would it be "15,000 maiden race's the top looks after itself"

[Gammalite]

27 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Gamma, the thing is, it is totally different in the case of the Entain money!

Entain have not promised the $900m to support or sponsor racing in NZ!

It was purely the carrot that was dangled by them to enable them to get access to the profits from online gambling and sports betting for 25 years!

The TAB and McAnulty were sucked into it hook line and  sinker, and we will pay unfortunately.

Do you really believe that Entain really gives a rats about racing in NZ.

You mention about Entain saying how much spent each year, well it shouldve been negotiated far better by the NZ TAB!

Entain knew what they were doing, they are a ruthless gambling business just like the other ones around the world.

They are no ones mate and we will be seeing this, it is about making a good return for its shareholders, so they take no prisoners.

!00% agree with that Brodster. ENTAIN have had issues all around the planet with swallowing up Betting agency rivals and All sorts of stuff , and Horse racing is only a Low key player in their Grand Scheme of taking all the gambling dollars they possibly can off all the people's.

Queensland trotting isn't just run by Seymour , it is also 'Ladbrokes' that run the show , and put up the dollars here. They are owned by ENTAIN of course. QLD trotting would cease without the Ladbrokes support. ( bit like your NZ Entain support I spose) 

You guys have rightly pointed out to me the turnover is a significant Factor in whether harness racing continues, and the interest of this JUGGERNAUT company to keep it going.

I'm convinced , I have only tried to 'Fight back ' suggesting good old sponsors like Garrards , and Seymours could chip in to keep some racing going. Some good slot races and that sort of thing.  Seymour has Finanacially backed South Australia harness to keep it going this year. otherwise it was doomed. 

Victoria are hundreds of thousands in debt,  as Have the same Harness People and horses population of New Zealand. which means it needs a LOT of meetings .  they race for very low stakes mainly in their country areas. Currently negotiating with Moonee Valley to return there 2027 when the renovation is complete,  in a last ditch effort to stay afloat. I think they will FAIL in that bid though. Racing people hate trotting.  The Queensland country trots all closed years ago . Like the North Island country did . ( Hutt Park , New Plymouth and that )

You guys All want the North Island City racing to close too. Auckland trots . been going since 1912 at Alexandra Park . seems sad , but those participants have had a good run for decades. Bernie, Tony, Barry , Butchers and that. They can enjoy retirement on the beach somewhere hopefully.   

So you're Right in the END . They cancelled Waikato tomorrow , so they've had the dick mate. And I might now join your chorus of Shut them down Altogeather . they've had enough wins over the years (with Roy and Wolfie now deceased too , at least they can't see the demise of the North) so that's something good anyway . 100 years of tradition finished .  give the remaining dollars to the South Island then ? . before it collapses too. 

One cancelled meeting can Only lead to more . So you guys Win . it's nearly all Over Rover   🙄. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Gammalite

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

The TAB and McAnulty were sucked into it hook line and  sinker, and we will pay unfortunately.

The NZ TAB was insolvent.  There weren't too many companies wanting to buy it for more than a dollar!

[hesi]

 

Just re-capping

The Q1 22/23 results, indicated that at that rate of performance, the payout to the codes would have had to drop by 25%.  Can you imagine the bleating from an industry very prone to bleat about anything.  Mike Tod then got busy, and within 6 months had found 3 prospectives to take on outsourcing of the TAB's wagering and broadcasting function, with Entain being ultimately selected.

Entain have underwritten the racing industry for 5 years, with 200 mil guaranteed in the last year.  They really can do what they like, parts of the industry will bleat whatever they do.

But they have to be turning a gross profit or gross betting (I can't recall which it is), of 400 mil plus, after the 5 years is up, to keep the same level of payout.

I guess the issue that some have, is where that extra money has gone, but TAB NZ decides that, I presume in consultation with Entain and NZTR/HRNZ

 

[the galah]

12 hours ago, Gammalite said:

.

The HRNZ have done an Outstanding Job in recent years , and possibly returns a profit , where-as a lot of Aussie states run at a loss.

.  

if we look at the 2024 year.

the 2024 annual report said HRNZ had a reported surplus of 16.87 million compared to a a 1.98 deficit the previous year.

But,and its a very major but,it said the underlying operating surplus, if you excluded the one off forbury money was, 4.49 million.

and it states the positive performance was mainly attributed to hrnz's share of the  additional 15 million from tab nz.That could be traced back to flowing from the entain deal.. 

then you factor in the guaranteed miminimum funding disappearing after 5 years which could leave another shortfall to add as a negative,. 

so if you take out the one off payments then what they are doing currently seems totally unsustainable

they seem to be expecting another payment from the tab now they have the geo blocking in place,they will get an increase from the greyhounds not being around to receive income from turnover on overseas racing but then you have harness clubs who have greyhouned tracks losing significant income from rental.

so,theres many variable factors at play,but given in the future they won't be able to rely on theone off payments which it would be assumed will end within the next year or two, which have made it possible to increase prizemoney,then you would assume they will have to cut stakes significantly and cut out the running of so many meetings with low number of starters.

Whatever way you look at it,if they carry on as they are, incurring losses from race meetings ,then its inevitable the industry will falter financially in about 5 years.

doesn't it seem as simple as that?...A bit of a no brainer.

so,given HRNZ leadership seem intent on maintaining the policies which will create a financial day of reckoning,one would expect those responsible to jump ship about 18 months  before it happens. My guess that will happen in 2-3 years.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Westview said:

Never let the facts get in the way, after last years conference I ask John Dunn exactly that if you had more money to put into stakes where would it be "15,000 maiden race's the top looks after itself"

your talking about a south island/canterbury trainer.  He also has his father as training partner who is in all on the auckland thing.

I think you would find 90% of the high profile canterbury trainers,which race at the meetings like methven,the likes of john dunn,michael house,mark jones,greg hope,ken barron  etc..would like to see the grass roots get more support because they recognise that sectors importance.

its the elites at hrnz who seek out opinions that align with their thinking of putting the money into sector that do not support grass roots or canterbury.