mardigras Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Racing Vic. and NSW do...who cares about the rest? They put the info out, but most punters aren't getting it. Yet you claimed that most wanted it. Why haven't they then decided to get it, since it's there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Waller can't believe NZ doesn't supply this type of BASIC info... He realises the vast range of information the likes of HK supplies directly corresponds with Punters investments How does he realise this. Has he analysed betting? And why has investment on NZ racing gone down continually even with new info being added? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, mardigras said: How does he realise this. Has he analysed betting? And why has investment on NZ racing gone down continually even with new info being added? Um because of the quality of our racing and the uncompetitive pricing of the betting product? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, mardigras said: They put the info out, but most punters aren't getting it. Yet you claimed that most wanted it. Why haven't they then decided to get it, since it's there? Seriously, wtf are you on about?? Punters get it anyway they want...ground announcement, Television and tweets! If they can't hear about it after that...it's their fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, mardigras said: How does he realise this. Has he analysed betting? And why has investment on NZ racing gone down continually even with new info being added? This is plain ignorant diagnosis...don't take up Nursing ffs The interest in Thoroughbred racing has been waning for years...around the world But especially so in NZ due to a number of factors... Take Auckland...sfa consistent racing...not to mention almost zero Training facilities close to Metro Aucks for owners to watch their steeds... Those Punters left require accurate information...if not they go elsewhere Like the Royale Burger with Cheese...as opposed to your Flat Pack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Thomass said: Seriously, wtf are you on about?? Punters get it anyway they want...ground announcement, Television and tweets! If they can't hear about it after that...it's their fault! I've never heard one out of any of the last 100+ times I've been to Flemington. And I hear all announcements. And anyway, you still haven't covered off 'most'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, Thomass said: This is plain ignorant diagnosis...don't take up Nursing ffs The interest in Thoroughbred racing has been waning for years...around the world But especially so in NZ due to a number of factors... Take Auckland...sfa consistent racing...not to mention almost zero Training facilities close to Metro Aucks for owners to watch their steeds... Those Punters left require accurate information...if not they go elsewhere Like the Royale Burger with Cheese...as opposed to your Flat Pack So show us where the increase in information that Waller apparently realises relates to punting can be shown to be true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 All you're doing is throwing a whole lot of rhetorical questions around.. Ask yourself about HK Racing THE greatest information available to Punters...go ask yaself that question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, Thomass said: All you're doing is throwing a whole lot of rhetorical questions around.. Ask yourself about HK Racing THE greatest information available to Punters...go ask yaself that question... As a punter can you tell us what HK information you use and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Thomass said: All you're doing is throwing a whole lot of rhetorical questions around.. Ask yourself about HK Racing THE greatest information available to Punters...go ask yaself that question... All you're doing us throwing around hearsay. Like Waller. We know all your punting is based on hearsay. Not facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: As a punter can you tell us what HK information you use and why? When the wigwam goes on a gooses Bridle...GET ON! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 hours ago, mardigras said: All you're doing us throwing around hearsay. Like Waller. We know all your punting is based on hearsay. Not facts. The fact is EVERY bit of information made available encourages Punters to set up their very own niches... Imagine if the Boys wear a Plaid got the info that KL would be ridden behind Ted would have unloaded more on the leader...who now had no neddy contesting the lead... ...or they may have put a saver on him to avoid the multi coming apart at the seams Its that simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: As a punter can you tell us what HK information you use and why? As expected, nothing. He couldn't win betting HK if he got to bet half way through the race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, Thomass said: The fact is EVERY bit of information made available encourages Punters to set up their very own niches... Imagine if the Boys wear a Plaid got the info that KL would be ridden behind Ted would have unloaded more on the leader...who now had no neddy contesting the lead... ...or they may have put a saver on him to avoid the multi coming apart at the seams Its that simple It's all nonsense. Information both attracts and detracts from punting. People that bet on stats like you are put off because you are causing the odds to be uncompetitive. And don't bet. You just make shit up as you go along. Betting growth has been shown to be about having the ability to bet with a degree of competitive price. To attract new money. It's what HK has done. It's what any decent jurisdiction will do to bring in new money. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Wow...so if HK takes away all of their total immersion INFORMATION... nothing will change? btw...I never listen to change of tactics, wide draws, bias...et el...but I take that into account in post race analysis But it's a Punters right to know...or they bugger off to sports betting or casinos Where every punter gets to know every player's stats...wtf knew..not you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Thomass said: Wow...so if HK takes away all of their total immersion INFORMATION... nothing will change? I'd expect so. Betting in HK was declining. and then they introduced ways to obtain new money. Coupled with their integrity aspects, their very closed set of horses and their limited tracks - a perfect scenario for betting. And with a population that has limited choice and that loves gambling. They've always led the way with information, but I haven't seen their revenue grow as a result of it. Can you show me some years where revenue increased that correlates with additional information being provided. Edited February 14, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 What utter crap you talk...Winfried thinks way differently “When you look at why we have been so successful, it probably goes back to around nine years ago when we had a significant turnover decrease in horse racing,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “Our turnover dropped from HK$93b to HK$60b so we had to have a really deep look at what were the reasons why this had happened. “You could say that we have done the most systematic analytics regarding what our current customer was and what the future customer could be.” Over the past decade, the HKJC has developed an understanding of its customer base that has become the envy of the world. This led to having a deeper understanding of gaming propensity (the behaviour traits attached to wagering), what makes horse racing attractive to punters, and what are the different customer segments. “We came back after one-and-a-half years of research with a very clear idea of a customer strategy which is based on customer-centricity,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “We know what the different customer segments want.” The HKJC has invested heavily in racecourse facilities and technology to satisfy its customer base. The Hong Kong racing industry is unique on the world stage, something that Engelbrecht-Bresges understands. Other jurisdictions have structural difficulties that are not present with the HKJC. “We know everything about our horse owners; we know about their behaviour, what food that they like, what type of gaming behaviour they have, what type of horses they want to buy,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “The same is with our customers; we know that we have 1.8 million customers on a database who are regular customers of the Club, so we know their preferences. “Because we have the racing and race-going preferences, and the gaming preferences, we can shape the offering and provide an end-to-end customer experience. “That is a big advantage.” Producing 8,400 hours of television annually allows the club to know more about their customer preferences. It can tailor content depending on what preferences its customer base has for viewing, whether television, internet channels, tablets or smart phones. The HKJC controls the racing product end-to-end; the quality of trainer, jockey, facilities and depth of information provided is all determined by the club. The HKJC has long been a leader in creating in-depth information streams for its customer base. This includes every aspect of a horse in training - from having a swim, to cantering, to a serious gallop, to how the horse scopes under veterinary examination - being made available freely to the public. “Everything is considered an information offering on an integrated platform,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “Having complete information, IP rights and defining what we want to do for the different customer segments is our great strategic advantage. “It’s not that I want to brag about it but you need to understand that you have these opportunities and that you need to make the best of it. “That we have done and this has helped us to grow turnover.” The HKJC has invested heavily in understanding younger demographics and creating offerings that will suit. This includes concepts that are less gaming-orientated and being more ‘playful’, with the development of the ‘Happy Wednesday’ brand at Happy Valley racecourse on Wednesday nights being the must-attend event for many in Hong Kong. Racing wagering remains the core business of the HKJC and it is something that Engelbrecht-Bresges values. “Our customers of racing want an extremely competitive product,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “We know that the optimum field size for our customers is 12-14 horses. “They want to have a clear distinction in what we call the class system, where you have horses clearly grouped in the different classes. “How the horses are trained is clearly transparent. “If you look at the wagering side, our customers are clearly data-driven. “ “When you look at why we have been so successful, it probably goes back to around nine years ago when we had a significant turnover decrease in horse racing,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “Our turnover dropped from HK$93b to HK$60b so we had to have a really deep look at what were the reasons why this had happened. “You could say that we have done the most systematic analytics regarding what our current customer was and what the future customer could be.” Over the past decade, the HKJC has developed an understanding of its customer base that has become the envy of the world. This led to having a deeper understanding of gaming propensity (the behaviour traits attached to wagering), what makes horse racing attractive to punters, and what are the different customer segments. “We came back after one-and-a-half years of research with a very clear idea of a customer strategy which is based on customer-centricity,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “We know what the different customer segments want.” The HKJC has invested heavily in racecourse facilities and technology to satisfy its customer base. The Hong Kong racing industry is unique on the world stage, something that Engelbrecht-Bresges understands. Other jurisdictions have structural difficulties that are not present with the HKJC. “We know everything about our horse owners; we know about their behaviour, what food that they like, what type of gaming behaviour they have, what type of horses they want to buy,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “The same is with our customers; we know that we have 1.8 million customers on a database who are regular customers of the Club, so we know their preferences. “Because we have the racing and race-going preferences, and the gaming preferences, we can shape the offering and provide an end-to-end customer experience. “That is a big advantage.” Producing 8,400 hours of television annually allows the club to know more about their customer preferences. It can tailor content depending on what preferences its customer base has for viewing, whether television, internet channels, tablets or smart phones. The HKJC controls the racing product end-to-end; the quality of trainer, jockey, facilities and depth of information provided is all determined by the club. The HKJC has long been a leader in creating in-depth information streams for its customer base. This includes every aspect of a horse in training - from having a swim, to cantering, to a serious gallop, to how the horse scopes under veterinary examination - being made available freely to the public. “Everything is considered an information offering on an integrated platform,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “Having complete information, IP rights and defining what we want to do for the different customer segments is our great strategic advantage. “It’s not that I want to brag about it but you need to understand that you have these opportunities and that you need to make the best of it. “That we have done and this has helped us to grow turnover.” The HKJC has invested heavily in understanding younger demographics and creating offerings that will suit. This includes concepts that are less gaming-orientated and being more ‘playful’, with the development of the ‘Happy Wednesday’ brand at Happy Valley racecourse on Wednesday nights being the must-attend event for many in Hong Kong. Racing wagering remains the core business of the HKJC and it is something that Engelbrecht-Bresges values. “Our customers of racing want an extremely competitive product,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “We know that the optimum field size for our customers is 12-14 horses. “They want to have a clear distinction in what we call the class system, where you have horses clearly grouped in the different classes. “How the horses are trained is clearly transparent. “If you look at the wagering side, our customers are clearly data-driven. “You have to offer as much information as possible into odds, pool sizes, and trends in the betting for their consideration.” The HKJC has introduced the Longitude engine to the pari-mutuel, which allows for greater liquidity in markets and to also consistently display the odds of exotic bet types, such as the Tierce and First Four offerings. This increases customer attraction to those products as the punters will have a clear idea of what the likely payout will be. Further opportunities are emerging with mainland China, with the club developing Conghua - a training centre in Guangdong. With plans to open in 2018, Conghua will provide for an additional 1500 horses to be trained, assisting with the backlog of ownership requests, and also give a marginal increase into race meetings staged. “We have no interest in wall-to-wall racing in Hong Kong,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “Our customers do, on average, four hours of form study per meeting before betting. “Knowing customer preferences, we want to keep horse racing as a mind game. “For that, you need richness of information and you need time to study the form, you have to have time to see the horses in the paddock and assess the conditions. “Our customer learning shows that they don’t want permanent betting opportunities, they see this as not a chance game but as a mind game. “Therefore, the driving force for us is to have sufficient time for our customers and the richness of information so that they can come to the conclusion that their bet is a good proposition. “That is why we have to be mindful as to how much racing we have in Hong Kong.” Engelbrecht-Bresges understands that this could not necessarily work in other racing jurisdictions where breeding industries will have an impact on racing opportunities. The HKJC has introduced the Longitude engine to the pari-mutuel, which allows for greater liquidity in markets and to also consistently display the odds of exotic bet types, such as the Tierce and First Four offerings. This increases customer attraction to those products as the punters will have a clear idea of what the likely payout will be. Further opportunities are emerging with mainland China, with the club developing Conghua - a training centre in Guangdong. With plans to open in 2018, Conghua will provide for an additional 1500 horses to be trained, assisting with the backlog of ownership requests, and also give a marginal increase into race meetings staged. “We have no interest in wall-to-wall racing in Hong Kong,” said Engelbrecht-Bresges. “Our customers do, on average, four hours of form study per meeting before betting. “Knowing customer preferences, we want to keep horse racing as a mind game. “For that, you need richness of information and you need time to study the form, you have to have time to see the horses in the paddock and assess the conditions. “Our customer learning shows that they don’t want permanent betting opportunities, they see this as not a chance game but as a mind game. “Therefore, the driving force for us is to have sufficient time for our customers and the richness of information so that they can come to the conclusion that their bet is a good proposition. “That is why we have to be mindful as to how much racing we have in Hong Kong.” Engelbrecht-Bresges understands that this could not necessarily work in other racing jurisdictions where breeding industries will have an impact on racing opportunities. 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mardigras Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) blah blah blah. They've been doing that for a very long time. And their information is such as this. "You have to offer as much information as possible into odds, pool sizes, and trends in the betting for their consideration.” "The HKJC has introduced the Longitude engine to the pari-mutuel, which allows for greater liquidity in markets and to also consistently display the odds of exotic bet types, such as the Tierce and First Four offerings. This increases customer attraction to those products as the punters will have a clear idea of what the likely payout will be. " And then of course they introduced commingling. Commingling will always help the superior jurisdiction. So extra new money arrives because of the liquidity offered by HK racing. Along with rebates on large losing bets to help bring in new money from punters that would otherwise bet through illegal channels. It's pretty simple stuff. And their other key information provisioning is in the area of television. They cover their racing pre race better than anywhere. Because they focus on their own racing. Maybe you should have told NZRB to do the same. But you go on about things like tactic changes in NZ as if they are going to change anything. Delusional. Edited February 14, 2019 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) In the last 7 years, average return to punter each year has gone from 83.6% to 85.6%. (So an average takeout from 16.4% down to 14.4%). A competitive advantage. Explain to me how information brings the average takeout down in such a fashion? You've been hoodwinked into thinking it's their information. Which is good. But it is their desire to bring in new money which is changing their model and increasing their revenue. More money, bigger liquidity, more information in those pools, more betting. Show us a year where their average takeout rate has stayed the same, but their revenue has grown - and correlate that to a change in information provided. Edited February 14, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 Congrats on bastardising another thread.... Go and ask Royal Ascot why they've decided to finally get on the Information Highway with sectional timing... Do you think it's for the Queen to peruse perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 I haven't bastardised anything. The thread title is claiming that not having change of tactics information is an outrage. I've merely pointed out that the claim is crap. It's not going to change anything. NZ racing needs to invest in far higher priority things than such stupid ideas as this. You're the king of stupid ideas. And because you're a loser, you're trying to find the piece of the puzzle that you're missing. Problem is, you're missing all the pieces of the puzzle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 If you have the money, you should deliver points of difference. If you don't have the money, you should prioritise what will help get you that money. There is zero evidence that change of tactics notifications will get you any money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 It's called INTEGRITY 101... Before any Punter 'invests' in the product...they need to have belief the investment is dinky dye Not "we were experimenting"...as that rock star Matty C told Punters And if your opposition for the punting dollar is doing something...and being wildly successful...you need to follow the recipe... Like Royal Ass Kit have done And notifying tactics..costs absolutely NOTHING Like being polite...or opening the door for a hotty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Thomass said: It's called INTEGRITY 101... Before any Punter 'invests' in the product...they need to have belief the investment is dinky dye It's already well covered under the current racing rules. If the stipes can't administer them, that's the problem. Adding an extra piece unrelated to integrity, is unlikely to be done any better by them. Edited February 14, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) Of course it will cost. An extra stipe per meeting possibly. Every horse will have to be checked to see if they ran with a change of tactics. Followed by an investigation into those suspected of it. Edited February 14, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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