Levin Surplus to Requirements

[Murray Fish]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

es it was innovative of the Club at the time.

Talking Otaki,  as the Bayer gained in ratings, it then mobilized (sir) Arthur Williams to start spending the $$$ to get Terrace Regency up and running with the goal of G1...

[hesi]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes it was innovative of the Club at the time.  But that's what happens with Clubs from time to time you have an Executive that goes "What the hell lets give this a go"!  It works for a while and then politics creep in - committee members change and the new idea people can't get a look in.

I remember on a much smaller scale a similar committee at the Westland Racing Club came up with the Miss Scenicland Stakes.  Worked for a while and then the energy left.

I still don't understand how for a very small amount of money someone can sponsor a race at a country race meeting in memory of grandad.  

Clubs now have no idea about marketing and rely on the administrators or ENTAIN to do it for them.

Yes, it is all about this entrepreneurial streak that comes along from time to time.  It is not really a beast that survives under 'committee rule'.  Just look at every fucking council in NZ, or should I say Aotearoa lol.

Then again this entrepreneurial thing is not guarantee of success.  Classic case being Chris Weaver and how he totally stuffed what was the second best carnival in NZ racing, the 4 days at Ellerslie over BD/NYD.  They used to get 10,000 on that infield on Boxing Day, all sorts, with their hydraulic platforms to watch each race.  No one died lol

Just shows, it is not about a country/city thing, it is all about an inspired vision and the passion to make it happen.  An almost total rarity in racing clubs these days.

They have done well to get the KM day going and also the NZB Kiwi, but they haven't got the formula right nor it would appear the will to get it right

 

[Newmarket]

23 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

What's your answer Chief to your own question?

I know for certain that you will have an opinion, as you always do.

Yeah, true….
Funny that the site owner disagrees with the majority of posters on here…. not sure why he does not delete everyone, still post under our names, then comments would agree with everything he says…

[hesi]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes it was innovative of the Club at the time.  But that's what happens with Clubs from time to time you have an Executive that goes "What the hell lets give this a go"!  It works for a while and then politics creep in - committee members change and the new idea people can't get a look in.

I remember on a much smaller scale a similar committee at the Westland Racing Club came up with the Miss Scenicland Stakes.  Worked for a while and then the energy left.

I still don't understand how for a very small amount of money someone can sponsor a race at a country race meeting in memory of grandad.  

Clubs now have no idea about marketing and rely on the administrators or ENTAIN to do it for them.

Clubs never had any idea about marketing, nor did they have the resource.

I have mentioned this before, it is a bit like each individual kiwifruit grower marketing their product, not a hope.

Then along came Zespri and everyone had to join so the kiwifruit industry went ahead in leaps and bounds with oodles of resource and professional marketing and administration

 

[Murray Fish]

52 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Even in those days Trainers and Owners chased the big dollars. 

It was around this time that most of 'our' better 3yr olds were still running in our black type races,  then, slowly slowly the better ones started to be targeted by Overseas $$$.  The Bayer then for a few years was a race when the top fillies often tried to beat the boys, often involving lots of press leading up to!  If the truth be known! the Levin track might have been the smallest ever to run G1 races.. I recall a rider who won the race twice recon one she stole with a front running ride!

 

[hesi]

5 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Yeah, true….
Funny that the site owner disagrees with the majority of posters on here…. not sure why he does not delete everyone, still post under our names, then comments would agree with everything he says…

He may have his faults, but I believe this would never happen, as happened on another site, ad nauseum, and what led to the establishment of this and other sites

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Yeah, true….
Funny that the site owner disagrees with the majority of posters on here…. not sure why he does not delete everyone, still post under our names, then comments would agree with everything he says…

Uh?  Try the Premier Anti-racing site for that behaviour.  BTW its called debate.  If you look at BOAY rules they are pub school rules.

[hesi]

4 minutes ago, Murray Fish said:

It was around this time that most of 'our' better 3yr olds were still running in our black type races,  then, slowly slowly the better ones started to be targeted by Overseas $$$.  The Bayer then for a few years was a race when the top fillies often tried to beat the boys, often involving lots of press leading up to!  If the truth be known! the Levin track might have been the smallest ever to run G1 races.. I recall a rider who won the race twice recon one she stole with a front running ride!

 

On the topic of running G1's on small tracks, Matamata of course running the Windsor Park Plate when HB couldn't

[hesi]

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[Newmarket]

2 hours ago, hesi said:

He may have his faults, but I believe this would never happen, as happened on another site, ad nauseum, and what led to the establishment of this and other sites

Hey Hesi, are you not involved with the other racing site now? 

[hesi]

14 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Hey Hesi, are you not involved with the other racing site now? 

I own it and run it still, but unlike a few I quite enjoy the rhetoric on this site.

While you may not like CS, he is a very intelligent hombre, and that quite appeals to me

[Newmarket]

1 hour ago, hesi said:

I own it and run it still, but unlike a few I quite enjoy the rhetoric on this site.

While you may not like CS, he is a very intelligent hombre, and that quite appeals to me

Never said i didnt like CS….just that he is quick to judge and i am sure that stops a few from posting, needs to be less hostile 

[Dark Beau]

On 1/12/2025 at 8:28 PM, Chief Stipe said:

OK so you've finally come to the conclusion that under the current model most Clubs can't pay their way.

Take out the word "finally" and you are 100% correct.  

I think that it all started to go wrong when the funding model(s) changed around the time of Garry Chittick's reign as Chairman of the RIB. I am not blaming Garry, simply saying that's about when the funding models started changing and all clubs were forced to live beyond their means. Virtually ever club has had to sell property to survive. Take a look at the housing that now surrounds Ellerslie, Awapuni, Trentham and Riccarton. Then look at the retirement village at Te Rapa, the Hospital at Hastings and oh I forgot, the Hospital and Hotel at Ellerslie.

No wonder they now want Avondale and Levin's money. 

I rest my case!

 

[Dark Beau]

12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Levin doesn't have the facilities to run their own racedays and would require considerable capital investment to get up to scratch.  Arguably they struggle to maintain what they've got as it is.  

 

Your statement: Arguably they struggle to maintain what they're got as is, (quote from above) is the biggest load of codswallop I've ever heard.

Firstly they have $1.6 million in the bank and secondly to quote a trainer at the Jump-outs last Thursday, "these have to be the best tie-ups in the North Island except for Ellerslie"

[Dark Beau]

5 hours ago, hesi said:

He may have his faults, but I believe this would never happen, as happened on another site, ad nauseum, and what led to the establishment of this and other sites

True, but things change and being fair to all, one site now stands head and shoulders above the others, at least based on traffic although I must say that this thread has excelled 😂

[hesi]

1 hour ago, Dark Beau said:

True, but things change and being fair to all, one site now stands head and shoulders above the others, at least based on traffic although I must say that this thread has excelled 😂

I'm glad you qualified your statement with 'based on traffic', because that is all it is

[hesi]

2 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Never said i didnt like CS….just that he is quick to judge and i am sure that stops a few from posting, needs to be less hostile 

I'm sure it also draws a lot of intelligent people to this site, the appeal of robust but intelligent debate......as opposed to, well I'll let you draw your own conclusions there

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

True, but things change and being fair to all, one site now stands head and shoulders above the others, at least based on traffic although I must say that this thread has excelled 😂

Amazing how much traffic you supposedly get in an Anti-Racing echo chamber.  Have you run a raffle yet to fund the fixing of the electronic timing at Trentham?

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

Take out the word "finally" and you are 100% correct.  

I think that it all started to go wrong when the funding model(s) changed around the time of Garry Chittick's reign as Chairman of the RIB. I am not blaming Garry, simply saying that's about when the funding models started changing and all clubs were forced to live beyond their means. Virtually ever club has had to sell property to survive. Take a look at the housing that now surrounds Ellerslie, Awapuni, Trentham and Riccarton. Then look at the retirement village at Te Rapa, the Hospital at Hastings and oh I forgot, the Hospital and Hotel at Ellerslie.

No wonder they now want Avondale and Levin's money. 

I rest my case!

 

Finally you get it.  However I suspect you think that there was some other magical way of finding the capital to maintain or restore the core racing assets.  Where was the cash coming from?  The taxpayer?

[curious]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Finally you get it.  However I suspect you think that there was some other magical way of finding the capital to maintain or restore the core racing assets.  Where was the cash coming from?  The taxpayer?

It should have come from what the clubs were earning as it always had before.

[Chief Stipe]

10 hours ago, Dark Beau said:

Your statement: Arguably they struggle to maintain what they're got as is, (quote from above) is the biggest load of codswallop I've ever heard.

Firstly they have $1.6 million in the bank and secondly to quote a trainer at the Jump-outs last Thursday, "these have to be the best tie-ups in the North Island except for Ellerslie"

No Levin only have $1.2m in the bank.  The irony of course is that cash came from selling off a large chunk of land.  Then there was some creative accounting involving the three Trusts.   The sums involved jumped between cash in the bank and Trust loans.

Operationally they run at a loss.  Even though they pay a peppercorn rental for the use of Otaki on raceday. 

Levin has done the exact same thing that you all point the finger at other clubs for doing.  Yes Levin has done a wonderful job at providing a jumpout venue.

[Chief Stipe]

36 minutes ago, curious said:

It should have come from what the clubs were earning as it always had before.

That's where you theory falls down.  You assume that the Clubs were ever earning enough to pay their way or put enough in reserve to maintain their assets.  These Clubs looked financial on their balance sheets as their assets valuations increased but the reality is the operating revenue was never enough for the rainy day that was inevitable.  

I'm not talking about a fair return on capital I'm talking about generating enough revenue to maintain the assets.  Volunteers, donations and sponsorship helped build the assets (often even the land has been gifted) but as that source of assistance has dropped away so has the ability of clubs to maintain what they often have been given.

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's where you theory falls down.  You assume that the Clubs were ever earning enough to pay their way or put enough in reserve to maintain their assets.  These Clubs looked financial on their balance sheets as their assets valuations increased but the reality is the operating revenue was never enough for the rainy day that was inevitable.  

I'm not talking about a fair return on capital I'm talking about generating enough revenue to maintain the assets.  Volunteers, donations and sponsorship helped build the assets (often even the land has been gifted) but as that source of assistance has dropped away so has the ability of clubs to maintain what they often have been given.

That I can concede is a valid point.

[Huey]

50 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's where you theory falls down.  You assume that the Clubs were ever earning enough to pay their way or put enough in reserve to maintain their assets.  These Clubs looked financial on their balance sheets as their assets valuations increased but the reality is the operating revenue was never enough for the rainy day that was inevitable.  

I'm not talking about a fair return on capital I'm talking about generating enough revenue to maintain the assets.  Volunteers, donations and sponsorship helped build the assets (often even the land has been gifted) but as that source of assistance has dropped away so has the ability of clubs to maintain what they often have been given.

How can some clubs be expected to earn enough $$ to maintain/improve their assets when the rules of the game are rigged in such a way as to benefit an agenda?

Lots of the smaller clubs or the out of favour clubs have done very well within the landscape they have had to operate in , picking up the scraps to make things work.

It is not a level playing field despite what you think , therefore your expectations of some clubs is very much distorted.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Huey said:

How can some clubs be expected to earn enough $$ to maintain/improve their assets when the rules of the game are rigged in such a way as to benefit an agenda?

A myth.  What specific rules stop Clubs from generating enough revenue from their assets to enable them to maintain them?

5 minutes ago, Huey said:

Lots of the smaller clubs or the out of favour clubs have done very well within the landscape they have had to operate in , picking up the scraps to make things work.

Are you saying the likes of Reefton should get 12 racing dates a year so they can be profitable?

5 minutes ago, Huey said:

It is not a level playing field despite what you think , therefore your expectations of some clubs is very much distorted.

Lovely generalisation - would you care to elaborate?  Not that I'm lecturing or anything just asking for some detail rather than anecdotal rubbish.  The way I see it there is a negative group (getting smaller) in racing that are feeding off myth, consipiracy and misinformation.  To make it worse they are wallowing in nostalgia about how it used to be.