Reefton Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, Weasel said: Reefton, having read your various replies, it seems you are determined to see the Anderton / Tiley comparison as some kind of criticism of Anderton. It's not. ATA (and I, and others) simply are of the view that a move by Corey Campbell to the North Island and Tiley/NGH mentoring would be better than saying in the south. It doesn't matter how many Group 1s Tiley has trained. He has a superior record as a jockey; the Nth Is has more horses, meeting and opportunities for young jockeys, and the South needs more help from experienced senior jocks a la Walsh (who cant be everywhere at ones). so can you give me a list of all these top line apprentices Tiley has produced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzenza365 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Reefton said: so can you give me a list of all these top line apprentices Tiley has produced? Two of the best Tudors of apprentices in the past where B Deacon and K Gray,neither as far as i know where jockeys.J Lalor was D Walsh boss,never rode and of course the Skeltons and as far as i know L Pratt never rode. I believe C Campbell is not the finished product as yet and he may be ready in a year to test the water in the NI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, muzenza365 said: Two of the best tutors of apprentices in the past where B Deacon and K Gray, neither as far as i know where jockeys. Deacon and Gray gave their apprentices opportunity, they had no idea about race riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, billy connolly said: Deacon and Gray gave their apprentices opportunity, they had no idea about race riding. Maybe we need a few more mentors to help the south island apprentices, your knowledge on tracks and riding maybe of help to some of them, ever thought of having ago,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Reefton said: so can you give me a list of all these top line apprentices Tiley has produced? You are still missing the point ..and so the Mustelid shall give up at this point and point his snout in a more rewarding direction (anywhere will do). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, Weasel said: You are still missing the point ..and so the Mustelid shall give up at this point and point his snout in a more rewarding direction (anywhere will do). I think you are missing the point You lot have been telling me what a great man with apprentices Nigel Tiley is - I merely asked for some examples of the top line apprentices he has produced. Perfectly reasonable question given he is apparently all things to all men in that area. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Lord help me... ATA simply mentioned in an early post: Get him up North with Nigel Tiley or someone of that ilk and the he could be ok. You've taken it as a slight on the South Island/Brian Anderton etc etc and therefore are missing the point. I dont give a toss if Corey hooks up with Tiley, O'Sullivan, Sharrocck, NGH or whoever ...THE POINT IS he's more likely to acquire the skills he needs to be successful if he moves north. The standard of riding in the South Island is known to be very poor right now and David Walsh can't be everywhere at once! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 6 hours ago, Weasel said: Lord help me... ATA simply mentioned in an early post: Get him up North with Nigel Tiley or someone of that ilk and the he could be ok. You've taken it as a slight on the South Island/Brian Anderton etc etc and therefore are missing the point. I dont give a toss if Corey hooks up with Tiley, O'Sullivan, Sharrocck, NGH or whoever ...THE POINT IS he's more likely to acquire the skills he needs to be successful if he moves north. The standard of riding in the South Island is known to be very poor right now and David Walsh can't be everywhere at once! I asked you for a list of the top line apprentices Nigel Tiley has produced. This ATA bloke was holding him up as someone with vastly more skills as an apprentice master than the legendary Brian Anderton(to be fair Corey Campbell will be apprenticed to Shane not Brian but Shane was a fair rider himself in his time who would have been a legend but for weight). I believe it is a fair question given the capabilities attributed to Tiley. The reality is that to my knowledge Tiley is yet to produce a decent apprentice so the list is a very short one and yet you lot assure us that the bloke is all things to all men. Sharrock has a fair record maybe but his apprentices don't always cover themselves in glory either. You will need a bit more substance to your argument if you want to take me on than hero worship of the bloke. As Morty said a lot of the very best apprentice mentors were never jockeys themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Reefton said: I asked you for a list of the top line apprentices Nigel Tiley has produced. This ATA bloke was holding him up as someone with vastly more skills as an apprentice master than the legendary Brian Anderton(to be fair Corey Campbell will be apprenticed to Shane not Brian but Shane was a fair rider himself in his time who would have been a legend but for weight). I believe it is a fair question given the capabilities attributed to Tiley. The reality is that to my knowledge Tiley is yet to produce a decent apprentice so the list is a very short one and yet you lot assure us that the bloke is all things to all men. Sharrock has a fair record maybe but his apprentices don't always cover themselves in glory either. You will need a bit more substance to your argument if you want to take me on than hero worship of the bloke. As Morty said a lot of the very best apprentice mentors were never jockeys themselves. hero worship?? For goodness sake, ATA simply said ..and I quote him again ..Tiley or someone of that ilk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 35 minutes ago, Weasel said: hero worship?? For goodness sake, ATA simply said ..and I quote him again ..Tiley or someone of that ilk... Maybe he needs guidance from Brian Anderton ... 'or someone of his ilk' I doubt Tiley or Sharrock or O'Sullivan or anyone else for that matter would be able to tell BJ Anderton too much that he doesn't already know about race riding, staff training or management, horse training, racing administration. Stud Management or anything else in this little industry of ours. That is why he is a Hall of Famer(and bloody well should be Sir Brian for services to this industry). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Mr Anderton's overall record has already been acknowledged Reefton if you care to read hence he is a Hall of Famer, however if it was on riding alone I very much doubt he would be in there. Just to jog your memory from page 1. "That well could be, however it won't be as a jockey per se. Mr Anderton will be remembered more so as a trainer, breeder and racing administrator rather than as a jockey other than his claim to fame as the regular rider of Kumai in the 60s. Mr Anderton won 398 as a jockey mainly over the fences in his riding career and this post is no disparagement of the great man." "However Nigel Tiley has infinitely more experience and at international level than Mr Anderton ever had. Nigel Tiley has been a top class jockey in NZ, Sydney, Hong Kong and Singapore. He has also ridden in England and France including the Arc De Triomphe." I note that you also seem to place Mr Anderton above Lance O'Sullivan as a rider also, a rider who had 2479 wins, won the NZ Jockey Premiership 12 times, 62 G1 wins, won races in 7 countries and who incidentally is a Hall Of Famer also, due to his record solely as a jockey. You think that Corey Campbell wouldn't benefit as a jockey from coming North and is better placed in the South Island where the riding is of poor standard. You seem to be the only one on this thread of that opinion. I note you use the name Reefton, I wonder how far the Skelton brothers would have gone had they not left the West Coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshu Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Totally agree with you there reefton. There would be lucky to be one to be one person in New Zealand that has as much knowledge as Brian Anderton in as many aspects in the racing game. The amount of people that he has helped in his life time aqquire knowledge about the thoughbred would be in there 1000s. Not only that but you would never ever find a truer gentleman anywhere in New Zealand. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, theshu said: Totally agree with you there reefton. There would be lucky to be one to be one person in New Zealand that has as much knowledge as Brian Anderton in as many aspects in the racing game. The amount of people that he has helped in his life time aqquire knowledge about the thoughbred would be in there 1000s. Not only that but you would never ever find a truer gentleman anywhere in New Zealand. hear hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 and still the pointless comparisons go on ...ATA's comments were not comparing Anderton with Tiley..or anyone. Why can't you get that?He was suggesting the greater opportunities that would come for Campbell if he moved North. More meetings, more rides, more tuition, more winners, more exposure to more industry experts...none of this is in any way disrespecting a legendary Hall of Famer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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