Track closures

[Freda]

I realise that this has become a bit of a pet topic for me,  so I have to apologise if I repeat myself.

Firstly,  despite the push to do so,  I cannot see any cost savings to ensue from a track closure - unless,  of course,  it requires a 'do - up ' needing funding.  Costs of getting horses to a distant meeting,  sure,  but as long as horses are entered, and a club is solvent,  why arbitrarily shut it down?

The meeting payments that are given to a club for the purpose of running a meeting will still continue, as long as that club carries on racing activities at another track - so no savings there.

The costs of providing TAB facilities and all the other paraphanalia,  big and small, still will need to be met of course,  wherever races are held.

I accept that those costs will be reduced if meetings are held at city venues consistently, reducing the need for transport of equipment and personnel..however, I see on the Weigh-In programme,  that Oamaru and Timaru are still down for closure.  I attended a meeting at the CJC where Bernard Saundry was present,  to discuss the allweather track option.  Along with all the other topics, the one that appeared clear, was the fact that the allweather at Riccarton could only be justified by transferring meetings from those 'closed' tracks.  

So,  if these tracks are still on the 'to close' roster,  and the allweathers have been put on hold,  where do those races get held?  I may be thick,  but I can't rationalise the two stances.

Of course, once stakes drop  [ how can they not?] it probably won't matter.   The end of racing as we know it looks closer all the time.

 

[Mark D]

Its never made any sense Freda.

[Kopia]

Freda your'e not alone. I believe 'track closures' as per Messiahara report are nothing but a smokescreen. The BIG issues in NZ racing are stakemoney, and stakemoney. Closing a track will not result in more stakemoney. And while on the matter of tracks, it was interesting to hear Bernard ( call me Bernie ) on Weigh In refer to the Cambridge ' synthetic'.  This is being touted as a 'temporary' panacea to the shit tracks currently operating in the north. But even if it does become operational ;'sometime' it won't help horses above a certain ability level. Won't be suitable for Premier racing..will it? Why don't NZTR and RITA bully the Auckland RC as they are bullying smaller clubs  with their threats of closure, lower stake money etc. Its clear that if Ellerslie are going to continue hosting ' premier' races they just have to provide a consistant, safe racing surface. And that my friends is a Strathayr. So the ARC should stop pissing around spending money patching the track and get serious about a track that can take racing 12 months of the year. OR is the ARC one of the clubs Guerin and Bernie referred to as ' not talking to anyone'...?  I think I know the answer to that question.

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

So,  if these tracks are still on the 'to close' roster,  and the allweathers have been put on hold,  where do those races get held?  I may be thick,  but I can't rationalise the two stances.

 

There is a declining number of horses racing.  It is like the red herring about abandonments - they were budgeted for.  If every scheduled race meeting had been held i.e. no abandonments then the stakes funding deficit would have been greater.

So in short those closed course meetings don't really need to go anywhere.  They just won't be held.

Then if you look at it from an overall industry perspective you are costing the industry more - why?  Because you have closed cost effective tracks to race less races at more expensive to run tracks.  For example I don't see the passionate volunteers travelling miles to help at working bees at Riccarton.

[Freda]

No,  certainly not. 

[Reefton]

I have said it so many times - there is no need for NZTR or RITA or whatever other powers that be to tell us we have to close.  The public(by not attending and/or betting on our meetings) and the owners and trainers(by not entering horses at our meetings) will tell us when our time has come.  It's called economics - if there is no demand for our product(the 'product' being the running of a racemeeting) then we will wave the white flag.

And God knows didn't I point out some examples of where clubs should accept that their public, owners and trainers etc are trying to tell them something in our venue review submission.

While it has not happened regularly up to this point it is only  a matter of time before meetings start getting cancelled due to lack of numbers.  If we (RJC) are the unfortunate ones(and that is not beyond the bounds of possibility) I will not be persevering.  The very very limited amount of enthusiasm for this game I retain will certainly not survive a raceday where we get only 60 nominations or a $20k oncourse turnover.

Yet these wankers who sit in these positions of authority try to arbitrarily tell us who should and shouldn't stay.  They are supposed to be shit hot business people but they lack basic understanding of the way economics works(lets not get on the topic of how they vastly oversubsidise stakes in certain sectors of this industry)

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

I know this is from a different code but from my perspective we are all in this together.  It was interesting at the weekend that Mevthen Harness couldn't race on their grass track on Sunday due presumably to the status of the repairs they were undertaking.  So on the Saturday they made a decision to negotiate another venue.  The race meeting was held successfully at Ashburton.

This is the perfect use of resources although no doubt it will be used as an argument to close Methven down!

Would a galloping meeting been able to transfer as quickly?  The only difference in terms of moving raceday infrastructure would be starting gates.  Some how I don't see it happening as seamlessly as it did for Methven Harness.  Afterall, and Reefton may correct me on this, they couldn't move Kumara to Greymouth or Reefton when Kumara's track wasn't up to speed.

[nomates]

God i'm getting sick of this topic , simply because the circles (noose) are getting smaller and smaller . The bit that pisses me off the the most is the life blood is being sucked outa the industry 'fast' and they just don't seem to get the bigger picture . Saundry kept saying this could take 4/5 years , to bloody long , we're on our knees now . I can't tell you the number of people in know that simply have gone from multiple horses to a small share in one or none . These were hands on owner trainers in a lot of cases . Mostly older with no intention of getting back in , i'm one . All horses gone , it's great , no more early mornings getting up to feed horses or clean paddocks . My wife loves it , money not spent in last year went on 6 week overseas trip to UK , after christmas the renovations that have been on hold are getting done , happy wife , fantastic life . But don't get me wrong if i'd seen any and i mean any light at the end of the tunnel i'd still be involved . Thru all the talk of track closures and synthetic track , which as most people know will solve nothing , the one thing they could have done but haven't even considered doing is what any struggling business does first in times of  hardship " retrench " . John Allan considers it a success that he has stemmed the flow of staggering  industry costs from going any higher . It was mentioned on weigh in that costs to run NZRB ( RITA ) and the individual codes have risen from 11 million to 24 million . Saundry never even flinched , why hasn't he and JA looked toward their own business models and start trimming the fat . Last i heard 124 people on $100k or more , sorry but even i could go in and streamline their model and make some savings for this struggling industry . Why is Saunders and JA sitting around just waiting for legislation and other people to help their businesses , can't they come up with some of their own initatives , they have enough people on great money , brain storm , at least show us your trying something other than standing around shrugging and holding your hands up . PLEASE , PLEASE , PLEASE , i'm suffocating . 

[Reefton]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I know this is from a different code but from my perspective we are all in this together.  It was interesting at the weekend that Mevthen Harness couldn't race on their grass track on Sunday due presumably to the status of the repairs they were undertaking.  So on the Saturday they made a decision to negotiate another venue.  The race meeting was held successfully at Ashburton.

This is the perfect use of resources although no doubt it will be used as an argument to close Methven down!

Would a galloping meeting been able to transfer as quickly?  The only difference in terms of moving raceday infrastructure would be starting gates.  Some how I don't see it happening as seamlessly as it did for Methven Harness.  Afterall, and Reefton may correct me on this, they couldn't move Kumara to Greymouth or Reefton when Kumara's track wasn't up to speed.

Kumara ignored the offer of the facility!  There was no issue with moving it - that i was aware of -  just they didn't want to.  But in the past we tried to move to Greymouth one year when the trotters hammered our track but the TAB refused to co-operate.  Some BS story about driving hours.  Wrong excuse when we had two truck drivers and a trucking company owner on our committee.   They were driving straight past Omoto to get to the next venue Kumara.

Starting gates movement is easy in our case.  Jam them on a lowbed truck and bingo!

 

[Freda]

I think that the problem with Kumara, Reefton, was that they could shift the races,  but they couldn't shift the party.

The party has become more important than the races.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

I think that the problem with Kumara, Reefton, was that they could shift the races,  but they couldn't shift the party.

The party has become more important than the races.

no question about that Pam.  But my concern was the bloody stakeholders who missed out  on a raceday(many of them had travelled a long way).  The next year when a lot of them decide not to come to the Coast I know which club would have missed out on the missing horses and it wouldn't be Kumara!

The issue really is very few Kumara Committee people are real racing enthusiasts and they did not think about the people who had spent a lot of dosh to get nags to the circuit just, as you said , the piss up they missed out on.

[Chimbu]

In Part 2 of the Weigh In interview I saw Mick Guerin mention Stratford wanting to race at Hawera. The reply from Bernard was they were offered the opportunity to race at New Plymouth and declined, but may decide to do so in future years, thus SRC won't race this year and the date has been re-allocated (to TRI).

I wish Mick Guerin had continued the line of questioning by asking him why Stratford weren't permitted to race at Hawera given that Hawera was willing to host the Stratford day.

If unable to race at home any longer, then racing at Hawera is much more palatable to the SRC than taking the day north to New Plymouth is. The town of Stratford has much more natural & historical affinity to South Taranaki than North Taranaki and the Hawera course is also closer to Stratford by 10mins/10km approx.. I sincerely believe that non-racing Stratford people seeking a great picnic day out may consider travelling to Hawera for their annual day at the races, but few (if any) would ever go to New Plymouth as it doesn't have the same 'country' atmosphere that they seek.

So many in the Taranaki still want to know why is Bernard is dictating where in the Taranaki the SRC must race if they wish to retain their raceday? Why were Stratford not allowed to race at the Taranaki course of their choice? To those that I talk to his entrenched stance is mystifying.

[Shad]

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

no question about that Pam.  But my concern was the bloody stakeholders who missed out  on a raceday(many of them had travelled a long way).  The next year when a lot of them decide not to come to the Coast I know which club would have missed out on the missing horses and it wouldn't be Kumara!

The issue really is very few Kumara Committee people are real racing enthusiasts and they did not think about the people who had spent a lot of dosh to get nags to the circuit just, as you said , the piss up they missed out on.

Haven't Kumara always been a stand alone club, not wanting to work with any of the other coast clubs, or am I wrong.

[Reefton]

21 minutes ago, Shad said:

Haven't Kumara always been a stand alone club, not wanting to work with any of the other coast clubs, or am I wrong.

Doesn't really apply any more.  Shared Secretary and I think they realise that they cannot survive on their own.  Ten years ago they thought they could but a succession of boots up the arse(figuratively) with cancellations, almost going broke and struggling to get committee has sobered them up a bit.

To be fair the CJC were quite an aloof bunch twenty years ago too but things change.

 

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Chimbu said:

In Part 2 of the Weigh In interview I saw Mick Guerin mention Stratford wanting to race at Hawera. The reply from Bernard was they were offered the opportunity to race at New Plymouth and declined, but may decide to do so in future years, thus SRC won't race this year and the date has been re-allocated (to TRI).

I wish Mick Guerin had continued the line of questioning by asking him why Stratford weren't permitted to race at Hawera given that Hawera was willing to host the Stratford day.

If unable to race at home any longer, then racing at Hawera is much more palatable to the SRC than taking the day north to New Plymouth is. The town of Stratford has much more natural & historical affinity to South Taranaki than North Taranaki and the Hawera course is also closer to Stratford by 10mins/10km approx.. I sincerely believe that non-racing Stratford people seeking a great picnic day out may consider travelling to Hawera for their annual day at the races, but few (if any) would ever go to New Plymouth as it doesn't have the same 'country' atmosphere that they seek.

So many in the Taranaki still want to know why is Bernard is dictating where in the Taranaki the SRC must race if they wish to retain their raceday? Why were Stratford not allowed to race at the Taranaki course of their choice? To those that I talk to his entrenched stance is mystifying.

Standard bully boy tactics , my understanding is they want to close Hawera as well and move everybody to New Plymouth . Give it 2 seasons with nearly all Taranaki racing based at NP and the track will be stuffed , then what . They just don't get that most of the tracks are barely handling what they have now . I'm not knocking NP racing by any means , they have great community support , always a great atmosphere when iv'e been there no matter a premier day or industry day .

[Chimbu]

7 minutes ago, nomates said:

Standard bully boy tactics , my understanding is they want to close Hawera as well and move everybody to New Plymouth . Give it 2 seasons with nearly all Taranaki racing based at NP and the track will be stuffed , then what . They just don't get that most of the tracks are barely handling what they have now . I'm not knocking NP racing by any means , they have great community support , always a great atmosphere when iv'e been there no matter a premier day or industry day .

I thought Hawera had a few years before closure (5?), so why not allow SRC to race there in the interim?

Also, isn't it interesting that the Stratford Harness Racing Club are still racing at home this season?

Your point about tracks barely handling the number of race days they have now is relevant and if NP is to be upgraded to cope, where will Taranaki race while that is happening? The Hawera track will only cope with so much, too.

Btw, my issue is not with NP either, though I am not so sure that they still have the same level of community support that they have had in the past. For instance, I know owners that won't ever leave home to go to the races on their home track track, even when their own horses are racing. Same people travel hundreds of km's to follow them to other meetings. There has to be a reason for this

 

[Shad]

11 hours ago, Reefton said:

Doesn't really apply any more.  Shared Secretary and I think they realise that they cannot survive on their own.  Ten years ago they thought they could but a succession of boots up the arse(figuratively) with cancellations, almost going broke and struggling to get committee has sobered them up a bit.

To be fair the CJC were quite an aloof bunch twenty years ago too but things change.

 

That's good to hear, shame their track has never been the same since the supposedly improvements they made all those years ago, only after that did the abandonments start.

[Freda]

For sure, years ago we knew were going to run on a swamp, the weather only decreed the extent of the sogginess.

I recall once it was very firm, a very rare occasion,  but there you are...!

Now it is regularly firm, and can offer slippery conditions....such is progress. 

[Freda]

15 hours ago, Reefton said:

no question about that Pam.  But my concern was the bloody stakeholders who missed out  on a raceday(many of them had travelled a long way).  The next year when a lot of them decide not to come to the Coast I know which club would have missed out on the missing horses and it wouldn't be Kumara!

The issue really is very few Kumara Committee people are real racing enthusiasts and they did not think about the people who had spent a lot of dosh to get nags to the circuit just, as you said , the piss up they missed out on.

I will be interested to see how the altered circuit goes, Hokitika have raced at Kumara before, the results were woeful.   I usually base my team at Hoki, but I feel it is unfair to expect accommodation to be provided when they dont have a meeting there.

[Reefton]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

I will be interested to see how the altered circuit goes, Hokitika have raced at Kumara before, the results were woeful.   I usually base my team at Hoki, but I feel it is unfair to expect accommodation to be provided when they dont have a meeting there.

Plenty of room at Reefton Pam though Hoki advise that they will still have room for horses there.

Re the Kumara comments that just proves what I always say about tracks when they 'renovate' them.  They root them every single time.  Leave them the way God created them.

lets not get too hung up about the Coast in this conversation though - there are a lot of other places just as hard done by as us and Stratford is a classic example

 

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Plenty of room at Reefton Pam though Hoki advise that they will still have room for horses there.

Re the Kumara comments that just proves what I always say about tracks when they 'renovate' them.  They root them every single time.  Leave them the way God created them.

lets not get too hung up about the Coast in this conversation though - there are a lot of other places just as hard done by as us and Stratford is a classic example

 

You're right - my reference to the Coast is merely because I am more familiar with the area than others mentioned.