Has The Optimist become The Pessimist?

[Joe Bloggs]

19 minutes ago, Huey said:

I see all the comments about the Asset Grab have proved the smokescreen everyone knew they were and are set to fragment the industry even more:

Latest RITA update 

Legislate to vest club assets to code regulatory bodies, Reduce the number of venues and Upgrade facilities and tracks of remaining venues with funds from closed venues. There has been an enormous amount of work done in the venue space in an attempt to give the industry the tools it needs to tackle the hard decisions and successfully resolve them. RITA has provided feedback to the DIA on the need to build on the existing work programme, and if any legislative changes are required they are subject to a clear and transparent process between Codes and Clubs, but we await Government’s direction on this matter. In the interim, RITA continues to work with the Codes on the Future Venue Plan with a meeting expected to be scheduled over the next few weeks.   

How does that work? They can't ''vest'' assets if the club own their assets, the gov can make statuary acquisitions, and make adequate compensation, usually at market rates, but even they are questionable, therefore a challenge to the courts is in the offing, of course there needs to be a will and that's the conundrum........pro bono needed, no doubt.

[Huey]

10 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

How does that work? They can't ''vest'' assets if the club own their assets, the gov can make statuary acquisitions, and make adequate compensation, usually at market rates, but even they are questionable, therefore a challenge to the courts is in the offing, of course there needs to be a will and that's the conundrum........pro bono needed, no doubt.

Agree but certainly  appears to be planned all along, no money elsewhere so the only silver bullet.  Look out Avondale and others an industry the has performed poorly through poor management and lack of stockholder involvement in managing the industry wants you to foot the bill for more absurd ill thought out strategy. As I said many a fool will welcome this. 

[Joe Bloggs]

What credibility they had was shot to bits when there were no retrenchments Huey, any business that is haemorrhaging looks to cut costs, beginning with voluntary and then mandatory retrenchment. In the private sector, usually, once the auditors are done and the books don't balance, well serious questions are asked, you can be as creative as you like with accounting, but in the end if it doesn't add up, it doesn't add up, and thats the biggest worry, or should be, where the hell does the buck stop once the Grimms fairy tales are discovered...in the guise of the annual report.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

The 'cartoon' races actually saved racing in NSW...to a point, The Labour state Gov handed over somewhere around 150mil to AJC/STC on condition they merger, and give up the rights to the animated horse racing......it worked, NSW never looked back, the racing minister was Kevin Greene, a legend who now holds a place on the ATC board.......Nathan Hopeless could and should have met Mr Greene and asked for advice, NSW is thriving, NZ will always be the breeding ground of champions, but quadrupeds, or All Blacks but that's 30 legs and doesn't count really.

That's interesting , never knew they had them in Aussie . My point was more about how much interest there was in them . Apparently they also have form guides for the races . I think i'll stick with the real one's . Some might say we do have a cartoon section in the racing industry already and have had for quite a few years , i'll leave it for people to decide for themselves which part of racing they think that might be .

[nomates]

2 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

What credibility they had was shot to bits when there were no retrenchments Huey, any business that is haemorrhaging looks to cut costs, beginning with voluntary and then mandatory retrenchment. In the private sector, usually, once the auditors are done and the books don't balance, well serious questions are asked, you can be as creative as you like with accounting, but in the end if it doesn't add up, it doesn't add up, and thats the biggest worry, or should be, where the hell does the buck stop once the Grimms fairy tales are discovered...in the guise of the annual report.

Iv'e being saying this for years , would have thought this was step 1 when your business is struggling . I'm no accounting whiz so maybe someone such as Reefton could answer this , could NZRB/NZTR be considered to be trading insolvant when they are spending money they don't have ? . Be interested to hear a professional opinion .

[Joe Bloggs]

15 minutes ago, nomates said:

Iv'e being saying this for years , would have thought this was step 1 when your business is struggling . I'm no accounting whiz so maybe someone such as Reefton could answer this , could NZRB/NZTR be considered to be trading insolvant when they are spending money they don't have ? . Be interested to hear a professional opinion .

Hear hear!

[Reefton]

Under the Companies Act  a director cannot legally allow a  company to trade while it cannot pay its bills in the ordinary course of business(lest they be personally liable) but not sure how a statutory body works.  I am sure Sir Peter Vela will have his butt well covered so  would say they are protected.  They are probably including in their assets all NZ's racecourses so they will say no our assets exceed our liabilities.  Slippery accountants can do anything - look at them revaluing NZ Railways to create $3.5 billion of Grant Robertson's surplus yesterday. What bullshit!

[Freda]

Is NZTR a statutory body then? 

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Freda said:

Is NZTR a statutory body then? 

NO

[Freda]

I'm surmising that Reefton is alluding to RITA with his reference to Sir P V..... but the land grab is specifically targeted to galloping clubs and therefore,  I would have thought,   been in the province of NZTR.

Jackson and Saundry had track closures on their hit list long before the Messara report saw the light of day.

[Reefton]

I was talking about NZRB/RITA not NZTR.  NZTR presumably is guaranteed the funding level agreed is it not?

Re the land grab well that is a whole separate issue and not related to the current financial mire in which RITA/NZRB finds itself.  If the land is grabbed though I would say NZRB will be doing the grabbing then passing the filthy lucre on to the codes

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

NO

So what is NZTR?  And incorporated society?

[curious]

8 hours ago, Reefton said:

So what is NZTR?  And incorporated society?

Yep.

https://app.businessregisters.govt.nz/sber-businesses/viewInstance/view.html?id=229a78e05307b6d8bf1b29667f00cb1765d96e860579051d&_timestamp=2447896640324261

[Freda]

 I can see a lot of time spent in the Courts over this land grab...again,  no one will win out of this scenario - IMO.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Freda

[curious]

Can anyone really see the likes of the ARC let alone Reefton signing over there assets to NZTR without a fight?

[Freda]

Nope.

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Can anyone really see the likes of the ARC let alone Reefton signing over there assets to NZTR without a fight?

well the way that discussion document or whatever it was put it the law change was set to be that if a Club gave up its right to race then the Authority(presumably NZRB/RITA) would legally appoint an 'administrator' to oversee the disbursement of the Club assets for the benefit of the NZ Racing Industry(ie sell off the land and assets and put it in the pot).  The ARC wouldn't have to sign over their assets because they didn't/won't relinquish their licences or have them taken off them.  

 

[curious]

If a club no longer has a licence, they will no longer be a member of NZTR, nor come under the legislative powers of the Act (as it stands) will they?

[curious]

I thought the intent was that ALL club assets would somehow be vested in NZTR or Rita or some other body's hands?

 

[nomates]

Give it long enough and things are bad enough they will saying anybody wanting to participate has to sign over their assets . I'm sure it wont ever get that bad . Will it ??

[curious]

2 minutes ago, nomates said:

Give it long enough and things are bad enough they will saying anybody wanting to participate has to sign over their assets . I'm sure it wont ever get that bad . Will it ??

Isn't it kind of that bad and desperate already? Otherwise why would this even be on the agenda?

[Chief Stipe]

Hasn't the ARC already accumulated substantial assets at the expense of the industry?  They have $70m in reasonably liquid assets (not including the track and facilities) that could benefit the industry without closing down too many tracks.  Geez they'd even have enough to fix the Ellerslie track without anymore industry funds being diverted.

[Reefton]

13 minutes ago, curious said:

If a club no longer has a licence, they will no longer be a member of NZTR, nor come under the legislative powers of the Act (as it stands) will they?

Well I suppose the new legislation will legally tie clubs holding raceday permits in to the NZRB.  Then NZRB or whoever controls the Racing Act will then get the admin rights if a Club relinquishes its raceday rights.  Jacinda and Co are not going to kick up when Winston wants to change the law because (1) it will not happen immediately(so communities affected will be protesting long after it is enacted and therefore after their ability to argue)  (2)she probably thinks of the industry as a whole not as a bunch of individual organisations(ie 'it is their money - let them do what they want with it so long as the tax payer doesn't have to prop up the industry')  and (3) the real howls of protest are going to come from places like Reefton where there are no votes.  I cannot see the Avondale community rallying to a "save our Racecourse' campaign  or even a 'hey that is Avondale community money being given to the NZ Racing Industry' lobby.

It is stealth and typical of these people who have driven the industry into the ground and are now looking for a new funding source.  Of course they will have David Ellis, Patrick Hogan, Peter Vela and all their Breeding cronies saying it is a great idea.

[Chief Stipe]

17 minutes ago, Reefton said:

It is stealth and typical of these people who have driven the industry into the ground and are now looking for a new funding source.  Of course they will have David Ellis, Patrick Hogan, Peter Vela and all their Breeding cronies saying it is a great idea.

The sport of Kings and Knights it becomes again.

[Freda]

1 hour ago, curious said:

If a club no longer has a licence, they will no longer be a member of NZTR, nor come under the legislative powers of the Act (as it stands) will they?

That is how I would interpret things.

The mantra is that ' assets have been accrued as a direct result of industry funds '   ....but if a club is NOT licenced,  and its land assets have been acquired through a direct gift,  or leased from a community,  I fail to see how NZRB/NZTR can dictate.

[Reefton]

22 minutes ago, Freda said:

That is how I would interpret things.

The mantra is that ' assets have been accrued as a direct result of industry funds '   ....but if a club is NOT licenced,  and its land assets have been acquired through a direct gift,  or leased from a community,  I fail to see how NZRB/NZTR can dictate.

Our Club had the land long before NZTR or the TAB was ever thought of.  Back in the 1800's.  I believe it was gifted to the RJC who then gifted one half to the Trotting Club

They are desperate and they have the backing of big business people who have sway with politicians(ie the Minister of Racing).  They are demanding their payback for past support.  Trouble is the big businessman doesn't keep this industry going as they are only in it to make a quid - it is the mug punters and the even bigger mug owners who are pouring the cash in(and of course by their behaviour and piss poor service the TAB are chasing the punters away from the sounds of things).  In the case of the mug owners well economics are sending them elsewhere to spend their dosh.