Stakes

[curious]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Each to their own but if what you say is true then it is a sad indictment on the state of New Zealand racing.  Note it doesn't pay its way from a punting revenue perspective.

Probably one of the worst examples of that (cost:revenue) even though it might be good fun to attend.

Edited August 10, 2020 by curious

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, curious said:

Probably one of the worst examples of that (cost:revenue) even though it might be good fun to attend.

Yes and the rest if the country subsidises the sales piss up.

[Joe Bloggs]

49 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

I went up to the Karaka Millions night this year and I would say it was the best race meeting by a mile that I have attended for a number of  years. It is a great concept that has absolutely worked. 

I'm not paying for your 'big night out',  the industry has been riddled with backslappers and sycophants for years, any closed race series owned by a select few is on the nose, spread the moula around, you'll get long term people and long term benefits.

[All The Aces]

Don't kid yourself, you don't pay anything for me.

You want to spread the moolah around and race for small stakes.

isn't this the reason you are talking about sending your horses North and flying them to Australia to race in the bush.

 

 

[curious]

8 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

You want to spread the moolah around and race for small stakes.

I want to race for stakes that are generated by revenue from the events, even though they may be small. That's the only way we can have a sustainable industry. Siphoning off revenue to fund restricted races, breeders and sales companies isn't sustainable.

[All The Aces]

11 minutes ago, curious said:

I want to race for stakes that are generated by revenue from the events, even though they may be small. That's the only way we can have a sustainable industry. Siphoning off revenue to fund restricted races, breeders and sales companies isn't sustainable.

2 races that create more media and public interest together with huge turnover than most other meetings in NZ.

FYI.  NZTR stump up a total of $3,830,000 for the 14 Iconic races with clubs adding $2,700,000.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

You and people like you are the very reason racing went south, you drive grassroots people out of the game you may as well varnish the coffin. I've been in committee rooms where most of the blowhards wouldn't know which end kicks.

I wanted to support NZ racing, our financial commitment proved that, but we got sick of Petone ruining our love for the game and our bank account. The very fact as an owner they made you pay for a jockey, nom, acceptance fees and then treated you like a leper at the course made us angry. The northern cartel was unaffected, to a point they still are, being able to arrive at the track in the latest Range Rover, in the Harris Tweed and pretend that everything was rosy? then kick in to keep Peters in a position of power?? or he thought he was, yeah, great stuff.

So many good Kiwi's bailed out of NZ, Tommy H, one of the largest supporters of NZ racing, why tip in millions when in reality you are rewarding mediocrity. You are entitled to your view on NZB and the closed race series, however, in my opine it alienates the majority of racing people, the AKL society set [once a year racegoers] and the B grade celebrities that haunt the marquis, yep, they love the evening, and the breeders that hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and the bloodstock agents fuelled up on Bollinger and adrenaline, yep, it's the highlight of their calendar year.

I'm hoping against hope that there is a change of senior management there, the revenue that will come from overseas betting will not save the industry, they may have instituted some cost cutting and they spruik stakes are holding, but they have slashed the races, it's akin to a plane that's run out of avgas and they are gliding, so the crew are in the hold throwing cargo out the door to prolong the glide and the eventual crash.......

Anyway, my opinion wont change things, at least I have options, most don't and it's only their love and passion for the horses and the industry they have known since childhood and thats what keeps them active and alive........

[nomates]

37 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

You and people like you are the very reason racing went south, you drive grassroots people out of the game you may as well varnish the coffin. I've been in committee rooms where most of the blowhards wouldn't know which end kicks.

I wanted to support NZ racing, our financial commitment proved that, but we got sick of Petone ruining our love for the game and our bank account. The very fact as an owner they made you pay for a jockey, nom, acceptance fees and then treated you like a leper at the course made us angry. The northern cartel was unaffected, to a point they still are, being able to arrive at the track in the latest Range Rover, in the Harris Tweed and pretend that everything was rosy? then kick in to keep Peters in a position of power?? or he thought he was, yeah, great stuff.

So many good Kiwi's bailed out of NZ, Tommy H, one of the largest supporters of NZ racing, why tip in millions when in reality you are rewarding mediocrity. You are entitled to your view on NZB and the closed race series, however, in my opine it alienates the majority of racing people, the AKL society set [once a year racegoers] and the B grade celebrities that haunt the marquis, yep, they love the evening, and the breeders that hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and the bloodstock agents fuelled up on Bollinger and adrenaline, yep, it's the highlight of their calendar year.

I'm hoping against hope that there is a change of senior management there, the revenue that will come from overseas betting will not save the industry, they may have instituted some cost cutting and they spruik stakes are holding, but they have slashed the races, it's akin to a plane that's run out of avgas and they are gliding, so the crew are in the hold throwing cargo out the door to prolong the glide and the eventual crash.......

Anyway, my opinion wont change things, at least I have options, most don't and it's only their love and passion for the horses and the industry they have known since childhood and thats what keeps them active and alive........

I can tell you Joe there ARE plenty of coal face participants at the end of their tether with the way NZ racing has been mismanaged and are starting to move out of their racing interests . Racing in the CD is in a gradual decline , has become more pronounced over the last 5 or so years , i would say in 10 years the size of CD racing could easily halve or more . It is becoming a desert , many of the people still hanging in there are simply doing so as they have few options outside of racing and are hoping for a miracle .

[Freda]

I don't know what is worse - those participants ' hanging in'  while fully aware of the downhill slide we are on...or those in blind denial of what is actually happening.

  There are few at Riccarton [ that I have heard ] that seem to have any idea how bad things are, or how the 'bailout' was not the game-changer that they think it was.

Even our administrators think that we [ racing ] pay so much tax to the govt that we are entitled to yet more assistance.

[All The Aces]

15 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

You and people like you are the very reason racing went south, you drive grassroots people out of the game you may as well varnish the coffin. I've been in committee rooms where most of the blowhards wouldn't know which end kicks.

I wanted to support NZ racing, our financial commitment proved that, but we got sick of Petone ruining our love for the game and our bank account. The very fact as an owner they made you pay for a jockey, nom, acceptance fees and then treated you like a leper at the course made us angry. The northern cartel was unaffected, to a point they still are, being able to arrive at the track in the latest Range Rover, in the Harris Tweed and pretend that everything was rosy? then kick in to keep Peters in a position of power?? or he thought he was, yeah, great stuff.

So many good Kiwi's bailed out of NZ, Tommy H, one of the largest supporters of NZ racing, why tip in millions when in reality you are rewarding mediocrity. You are entitled to your view on NZB and the closed race series, however, in my opine it alienates the majority of racing people, the AKL society set [once a year racegoers] and the B grade celebrities that haunt the marquis, yep, they love the evening, and the breeders that hold hands and sing Kumbaya, and the bloodstock agents fuelled up on Bollinger and adrenaline, yep, it's the highlight of their calendar year.

I'm hoping against hope that there is a change of senior management there, the revenue that will come from overseas betting will not save the industry, they may have instituted some cost cutting and they spruik stakes are holding, but they have slashed the races, it's akin to a plane that's run out of avgas and they are gliding, so the crew are in the hold throwing cargo out the door to prolong the glide and the eventual crash.......

Anyway, my opinion wont change things, at least I have options, most don't and it's only their love and passion for the horses and the industry they have known since childhood and thats what keeps them active and alive........

Funny you make mention of Tommy. He races horses in both of the Karaka Millions races.  

[Joe Bloggs]

Yes he does, he's looking for a return on his investments, they buy to sell and race the ones HK don't want.......however he is one of hundreds of expats racing horses in Oz and beyond, if the joint had of been managed better I bet so many would have chosen to race the horses in the place they were both born!........Don't defend the indefensible, racing is in a parlous state, and as investment dwindles it will get worse.

Other posters get it, why are you in denial, it is fixable, slow but sure, not however with people that ignore the blatantly obvious, if the TAB goes under again, and it surely will, the government will have to do the hand out thing again. It's the only first world racing jurisdiction that needs and accepts Gov handouts.....

ATA, Aderns GOV is a soup kitchen, and the queue stretches around the corner, take a stool and take a seat, you'll be an old man by the time you get to the counter.

[All The Aces]

My argument is about the two Karaka Million races which you brought up, not the industry overall.  You are moaning about two races when there are well over 4000 races run each year.

Whether you like it or not those two races attract a huge amount of media attention both within racing and non-racing media within NZ and abroad. Interest in that night is huge as evident by attendance and turnover.

I know for a fact that Tommy had two aimed for the 2yo race and three for the 3yo. In the finish one lined up in the 2yo and two in the 3yo. He is not the only one looking for a return on investment.

Answer this. If you buy a horse at Karaka will you be boycotting the Karaka Million races given your view.    

 

 

[Joe Bloggs]

I wouldn't buy at Karaka full stop. We breed to race! Grass roots supporters of a once brilliant industry, we don't flog ours to HK, we race em, all of em if they're good enough.

There are hundreds like us I'm guess, where there used to be thousands, do you own one? or three or 14 as we did?

I'll never support a closed shop series if I find out the industry throws in hundreds of thousands of our money, you are eating the paint off the wall and support this? blow me over with a feather.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, All The Aces said:

My argument is about the two Karaka Million races which you brought up, not the industry overall.  You are moaning about two races when there are well over 4000 races run each year.

Whether you like it or not those two races attract a huge amount of media attention both within racing and non-racing media within NZ and abroad. Interest in that night is huge as evident by attendance and turnover.

I know for a fact that Tommy had two aimed for the 2yo race and three for the 3yo. In the finish one lined up in the 2yo and two in the 3yo. He is not the only one looking for a return on investment.

Answer this. If you buy a horse at Karaka will you be boycotting the Karaka Million races given your view.    

The issue I have is not with the races but the industry subsidising the stakes.  Why should they when they are restricted to those who purchase yearlings at NZB's sales AND pay up the entry fee on purchase i.e. a sweepstake race.

Why can't NZB, the breeders and the purchasers fund it themselves?  What do the breeders actually put back into the industry from their sales earnings?

Meanwhile the rest of us still keep the industry going by maintaining the revenue gathering races that fund the largesse of a few.  Including it seems yourself.

They even want these races to be Group races when in my opinion because of their restrictions they shouldn't even be Listed races.

[All The Aces]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

Why can't NZB, the breeders and the purchasers fund it themselves?  What do the breeders actually put back into the industry from their sales earnings?

 

Are you serious. There is a host of races sponsored by Breeders along with a host of horses raced by them also.   

[nomates]

19 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

 

Are you serious. There is a host of races sponsored by Breeders along with a host of horses raced by them also.   

The NZ breeding industry is doing a damned sight better than the NZ racing industry so i know which one is in a position to subsidize a race open only to the horses sold by those breeders .

The breeders are the first to moan if anyone moots a subsidy on any horse sold to overseas buyers to help subsidize the NZ racing industry .

[Chief Stipe]

29 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

 

Are you serious. There is a host of races sponsored by Breeders along with a host of horses raced by them also.   

Yes.  Anyone can enter those other races but not the Karaka promotional sweepstakes.  There is a difference.

[All The Aces]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes.  Anyone can enter those other races but not the Karaka promotional sweepstakes.  There is a difference.

Again ad nauseum  Those two races do more to promote NZ racing than virtually anything else. 

Focus on the positives not the negative.   

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, All The Aces said:

Again ad nauseum  Those two races do more to promote NZ racing than virtually anything else. 

Focus on the positives not the negative.   

You are not listening.  I agree the two races are good what I dont agree with is them being funded by the industry.  They are not available to all to race in.

Thinking about it a bit more it isnt NZB nor the breeders that part fund it but the buyers who buy the ticket in the sweepstake.

[Huey]

10 hours ago, All The Aces said:

Again ad nauseum  Those two races do more to promote NZ racing than virtually anything else. 

Focus on the positives not the negative.   

Having said that would it matter if they were 1mill or 250k so long as all the hype, marketing & promo with a twilight Saturday racemeeting in summer was still all part of it? 

[nomates]

I see Ruakaka has been postponed till Sunday , why not xfer it to a Waikato , Tauranga track to ensure it definitely goes ahead . Cant see the level 3 only lasting 3 days . They need to be smarter .

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, nomates said:

I see Ruakaka has been postponed till Sunday , why not xfer it to a Waikato , Tauranga track to ensure it definitely goes ahead . Cant see the level 3 only lasting 3 days . They need to be smarter .

Why not apply to the Government for an exemption?  Afterall horses from south of Auckland are just going to travel on the motorway through Auckland and not stop.  Your plan will be another nail in the Ruakaka coffin - if you move the meeting south of Auckland AND there is no travel exemption granted then Ruakaka based horses/trainers are stuffed.

Another issue of course will be trainers that are caught inside the Level-3 area - from south of Pukekohe to north of Wellsford. 

However I'm picking it will all be moot by Friday.  I can't see how this latest outbreak can be contained.

Racing should be preparing to follow the Victoria Racing's protocols to allow racing to continue.  NZ Racing cannot sustain a countrywide Level-3 lockdown.  If our code administrators are on the ball they will putting in new protocols ASAP AND lobbying Government.  Get Winnie on the hotline and tell him unless he gets some new protocols and exemptions approved then he will be needing to find another $100m to get the industry alive.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[nomates]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

For the betterment of the wider industry they need to ensure the meeting goes ahead , that means moving it . Exemptions etc are going to take time .

[Joe Bloggs]

I hope Adern takes advice, they aren't clever enough to sort this themselves, only caveat, DO NOT CALL DAN ANDREWS MS ADERN, please!!!!

[Chief Stipe]

34 minutes ago, nomates said:

For the betterment of the wider industry they need to ensure the meeting goes ahead , that means moving it . Exemptions etc are going to take time .

Not necessarily.  Winnie and the industry's great leaders on the phone and some good rationale arguments and you could do it.  Surely our industry leadership was prepared for this eventuality and had strategic plans in preparation?

Why should Ruakaka take one for the team AGAIN?  When they have already given an arm and a leg.  It is simple.  Is transporting horses on a horse float any different to transporting potatoes and onions from Pukekohe to Northland?