Stakes

[Joe Bloggs]

34 minutes ago, Bid said:

May not be the point but talk to anyone who has a horse not getting a start for several weeks and paying training fees and they'd be more than happy to be running. If anything it's the opposite to giving them the finger, to me it's saying sorry we can't cater for your horse in your specified race but you can have this option if you like. 

Bid I think you are missing it altogether, I've said SAT class horses, if you have a SAT class horse why the hell would you race for 5K to the winner, thats rocks for brains stuff....if you have horses of limited ability you take whatever is on offer, thats a given......if you've got a good one, get it out to Oz or SING even, as long as you plan to repatriate from Asia.

Tommy H has had some results already by getting his out, he's had enough....so have we.

[Freda]

3 minutes ago, barryb said:

I don't intend to be that much of a slow learner,  looks like I wont be getting a bike.

 

A bike....jeez,  I have just finished reading about Nancy Wake, I bet she never wanted to ride a bike, ever again, after the war.

[nomates]

41 minutes ago, Bid said:

May not be the point but talk to anyone who has a horse not getting a start for several weeks and paying training fees and they'd be more than happy to be running. If anything it's the opposite to giving them the finger, to me it's saying sorry we can't cater for your horse in your specified race but you can have this option if you like. 

And this is exactly what they are relying on , they are taking the piss with the most important component of racing , OWNERS . This problem is because they programmed 1 meeting a week in the CD for most of AUG/SEPT , finally and as usual waking up slower than the rest of the fecking industry and putting on an extra meeting at Otaki . Everything they do is like they are stuck in treacle .

[Joe Bloggs]

5 minutes ago, barryb said:

I don't intend to be that much of a slow learner,  looks like I wont be getting a bike.

 

What, we were slow learners? supporting a great lady trainer? and an up and coming young trainer for 2 and 4 years respectively? You are probably right, we should have never done that, according to your doctrine, we should have just sent them straight to Oz? We should have known NZ was doomed, we should never have trusted what was put out in the press by Jackson, Purcell, Allen and Saundry, we did trust them you see Barry, poor fool us.

[barryb]

1 minute ago, Joe Bloggs said:

What, we were slow learners? supporting a great lady trainer? and an up and coming young trainer for 2 and 4 years respectively? You are probably right, we should have never done that, according to your doctrine, we should have just sent them straight to Oz? We should have known NZ was doomed, we should never have trusted what was put out in the press by Jackson, Purcell, Allen and Saundry, we did trust them you see Barry, poor fool us.

Bang on JB, some great Aussies you mention there.

[Joe Bloggs]

They'd have to be laughing all the way to the bank wouldn't they,  they've got more dosh in their bank accounts than NZ TAB I reckon. I know who's finished in front there and Bernies not finished yet.

[Weasel]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

A bike....jeez,  I have just finished reading about Nancy Wake, I bet she never wanted to ride a bike, ever again, after the war.

she wanted to find a few more Nazis to kill! Come back, Nancy, we need you!

[Freda]

On 20/08/2020 at 2:43 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

Bid I think you are missing it altogether, I've said SAT class horses, if you have a SAT class horse why the hell would you race for 5K to the winner, thats rocks for brains stuff....if you have horses of limited ability you take whatever is on offer, thats a given......if you've got a good one, get it out to Oz or SING even, as long as you plan to repatriate from Asia.

Tommy H has had some results already by getting his out, he's had enough....so have we.

Don't blame ya.   Anyone who has the options to do so, I think would be.  Obviously, though, for many that isn't viable, with family, finance, and other considerations. 

But this notion of ' Saturday'  and  'midweek' classes is all wrong for NZ, yet  keeps getting traction.

The only way I can see it working is to have maidens, and [ say ]  R 62, 68 midweek and at modest stakes.  Let the higher rated horses have the weekends and better money.   That way there are opportunities to race, as well as work towards a better sort of option.

  Years ago - and you would recall this - clubs 'tiered' themselves, to what they could afford.  The  provincial clubs had their day, but happily catered for the lesser lights, and the handicapper reflected this when/if a country Cup winner went to the city.  But handicapping and systems have changed, and not necessarily all for the good.  Horses like Over the River, winner of multiple handicaps, is one standout under todays model - but few have his durability.    Yesteryear, many good but not top-class horses could win open races around the smalls, but would never be competitive in a city class handicap.     One such horse I recall [ County Antrim, raced by Richard Taggart, brother of trainer Barrie ] won races like the Westport Cup, Wyndham Cup,  etc....then the tinkering started.  Too many open races, they said.  So those 'cup' races became Cl 3 handicaps with the open races pushed towards the city clubs.   Richard, knowing full well how slim the chances were of him racing a Grp winner,  said, when Bob is finished, I won't race another one.  They're stuffing racing.  How right he was.

Then things got changed again.  Races like the Kumara Nuggets became ' iconic' handicaps, with significant injections of prizemoney.  Now all the big guns attacked, and again, the country handicapper got left in the cold.   More changes and rearrangements since, but the steady dismantlement of systems that worked had done the damage.

The Aus model of city [ midweek and Saturday ] provincial, country and bush/non-tote works really well,  but we just don't have the numbers, the geography, or the organisational skills to make it viable.  You would think that the Aussie imports we have employed might have an idea, but seemingly not.

[Chief Stipe]

Good post Freda.

Can anyone explain to me why the R65 Benchmark race at Matamata today is worth $22,500 yet the same conditions race at Awapuni is $10,000?

Incidentally the race at Awapuni has a similar average rating of entrants.

Are the horses better in Matamata even though they have the same ratings?

[nomates]

Have always said mdns shouldn't be part of a Saturday programme . And in winter running amateur races on a Saturday is not a good look for your industry either , and i am in no way having a dig at the amateur riders , they have their place , just not on a Saturday .

Saturdays should be promoting your product .

[Freda]

20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Good post Freda.

Can anyone explain to me why the R65 Benchmark race at Matamata today is worth $22,500 yet the same conditions race at Awapuni is $10,000?

Incidentally the race at Awapuni has a similar average rating of entrants.

Are the horses better in Matamata even though they have the same ratings?

To be fair,  I haven't looked at the fields at Awapuni ( apart from the jumps) but is it the only R65 on the card?  If it is an additional race, that might be why.

[Freda]

.  And to hear some talk,  it seems that anything Waikato is automatically superior to elsewhere...🙁

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Freda said:

To be fair,  I haven't looked at the fields at Awapuni ( apart from the jumps) but is it the only R65 on the card?  If it is an additional race, that might be why.

It would appear to be an additional race as the other is a $22,500 + Pearl Bonus race.  However that isn't the point.  If the betting revenue is such that it can support a $22,500 R65 why can't it support a second one?  Secondly there is NO difference in average ratings between the Awapuni and Matamata races.  Yet one races for more than twice the amount.  It makes a mockery of the rating system AND the stakes allocation.

[nomates]

7 minutes ago, Freda said:

.  And to hear some talk,  it seems that anything Waikato is automatically superior to elsewhere...🙁

Wash your mouth out you unwashed SI heathen , and show some bloody respect to your betters .

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, nomates said:

Wash your mouth out you unwashed SI heathen , and show some bloody respect to your betters .

Don't go there nomates.  The Chief Stipe is a proud West Coaster and an honorary Cantabrian. 😉

[Chief Stipe]

Actually thinking about it this weekend is going to be a big loss day for the NZ TAB and NZ Racing.  Are all these jump races and maidens going to attract big betting pools?  5 jumps and at Awapuni today including TWO maiden hurdles.  4 at Te Aroha tomorrow including TWO maiden hurdles!

[Freda]

Don't knock the jumpers,  Chief....

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

Don't knock the jumpers,  Chief....

I'm not knocking the jumpers at all.  But as a punting proposition they are not as attractive to the punter as flat races.  Subsequently less revenue.

[Freda]

15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not knocking the jumpers at all.  But as a punting proposition they are not as attractive to the punter as flat races.  Subsequently less revenue.

Don't seem to be, do they. Yet the jumpers have a huge following in the Uk

[curious]

On 20/08/2020 at 2:02 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

They should have Bid, but they didn't, they show no respect to owners, therefore we had to break the news to our terrific young trainer this morning that he will be one short as ours is booked on the outward bound flight.....2 to follow.

If you have room on the plane I  might put mine on too. Are you going to train them?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Yep.......they've gone full circle, great trainers but everything else.....doomed.........My first runner ever won, in VIC, first runner in ADL won, track record, first runner in SYD ran 2nd and then won by 7 giving Dwayne Dunn his first winner in NSW.......let's hope my first runner in QLD keeps the stats going Curious.......I just had to have another go before I die.....or COVID gets me.....I just hope I remember what to do?

[barryb]

6 hours ago, Freda said:

Don't seem to be, do they. Yet the jumpers have a huge following in the Uk

Yes, the turnover is horrible on jumps racing.

There is 1 key factor at play

1) The time of the day jumps races are run does restrict how much money is bet on them.

[curious]

25 minutes ago, barryb said:

Yes, the turnover is horrible on jumps racing.

There is 1 key factor at play

1) The time of the day jumps races are run does restrict how much money is bet on them.

Yep. If you run them at 10.30 in the morning when everyone is at sports with the kids and the Ozzies are staggering to the kitchen to light up the coffee machine, that's what you'll get.

[Freda]

Which is why a dedicated jumping 'season'  or circuit for jumping days would be grand...but will never happen now.

In fact I'd be very surprised if the National is ever run down here again.

The principal club has sat on its hands and happily hosted the Nationals,  year on year,  but done nothing to foster or support the sport.

[Joe Bloggs]

When you have a CEO that asked the question, do you gallop them every day, what chance do you have. In a country with your weather patterns, jumping should be paramount, with a carnival like Cheltenham.

Promo's, advertising mainstream tele campaigns, faces, faces, did I say faces......Like Myers, Wheeler, Houston, Todd, etc etc.......it's always worked in the UK, it's in their DNA.......but it was allowed to sink in NZ, it's deplorable, for a country that churned out so many Olympic jumping champions maybe there are parallels that could be used, but is it all too late? Is jumping/s fate sealed?

Those champion fencers of days gone by, came to Oz and kicked arse, went to Japan and kicked arse, USA even, and now? I don't see too many point to points being run, a cliche, but very poignant ........the good old days.