Interesting Stipes reports to come! Both from Hastings and Ellerslie! Incorrect Weight Allocated to Two Horses - Club Official informs Stewards AFTER Horses Leave for Start!

[Chief Stipe]

Anyone know what the weight muck up was at Hastings causing the 15 min race delay?

Race 3 Hastings - Heart Of Hawke’s Bay 1400

Approximately fifteen minutes prior to the race it was brought to the attention of the Stewards by a club official that horses MAZABEEL and RANGER may have been allotted incorrect weights under the conditions of this set weight race.  It was then verified that both these horses should have been allocated 59kg rather than the 58kg advertised. After the Stewards had determined that the weights should be corrected accordingly trainer T Pike requested a ruling from the Judicial Committee who ruled that the weights for the two runners should remain at 58kgs. As a result the race ran 15 minutes late.

 

The Great Northern - 3 horses at one fence.  THEN a couple of people playing golf on the course!!!

[Mark D]

Just typically poor administration on both counts.  Didn't see the incident (watching Morphetville) but thought on the first round that the "golfers" were too close to the action.

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Mark D said:

Just typically poor administration on both counts.  Didn't see the incident (watching Morphetville) but thought on the first round that the "golfers" were too close to the action.

I've always wondered why the driving range and short golf course is allowed to open on raceday's.  LOL the way I hook or slice the ball no one would be safe!

[Mark D]

And - I think - in relation to Hastings - that the argument was that the top two horses as two win horses should have been weighted one kg higher than their carded weight of 58 which presume had been (incorrectly) shown since Wednesday.  Took that long for the stipes to wake up.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Mark D said:

And - I think - in relation to Hastings - that the argument was that the top two horses as two win horses should have been weighted one kg higher than their carded weight of 58 which presume had been (incorrectly) shown since Wednesday.  Took that long for the stipes to wake up.

You're kidding me?  FFS.  I thought it might have been what happened in OZ where two stable runners were saddled incorrectly but still ran.

[Freda]

Never good to see horses come to grief...and a breakdown as well.

I have to wonder whether 'chasing on such fast ground was instrumental in the accidents.

[nomates]

The handicapping issue is purely symptomatic of the administration of NZ racing .

[Chief Stipe]

Race 3 Hastings - Heart Of Hawke’s Bay 1400

Approximately fifteen minutes prior to the race it was brought to the attention of the Stewards by a club official that horses MAZABEEL and RANGER may have been allotted incorrect weights under the conditions of this set weight race.  It was then verified that both these horses should have been allocated 59kg rather than the 58kg advertised. After the Stewards had determined that the weights should be corrected accordingly trainer T Pike requested a ruling from the Judicial Committee who ruled that the weights for the two runners should remain at 58kgs. As a result the race ran 15 minutes late.

[Chief Stipe]

How the hell did the JCA allow them to race with only 58kg's?  When they should have been racing with 59kg?  What a farce!!!!

(Where's Thomaas?  He'd have a field day with this cock up!).

[Happy Sunrise]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I've always wondered why the driving range and short golf course is allowed to open on raceday's.

I just watched the replay and there seem to be people everywhere. How safe is that? Not very when you have people on the track. Defies belief.

4 hours ago, Freda said:

Never good to see horses come to grief...and a breakdown as well.

I have to wonder whether 'chasing on such fast ground was instrumental in the accidents.

I think jumping should be phased out in the next 3 to 4 years. It is detrimental to the entire industry to see horses fall, breakdown and be destroyed. 

[curious]

[curious]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

How the hell did the JCA allow them to race with only 58kg's?  When they should have been racing with 59kg?  What a farce!!!!

(Where's Thomaas?  He'd have a field day with this cock up!).

How could they do anything else? Money had been bet on those horses at the carded weights.

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, curious said:

How could they do anything else? Money had been bet on those horses at the carded weights.

Back up there.  Tue Stewards said change the weights.  It took an appeal by Tony Pike to the JCA to overturn it.  Do we know on what basis the JCA made their decision?  "Oh the punters have already punted at those weights so we'll override the T's and C's of the race."

It also seems strange that the error was pointed out AFTER the jockeys were weighed out the first time.

I think your justification is wrong even though you haven't explained it well.  Compare it to the fact jockeys often ride overweight and this isn't declared until the day.  Often the punter hasn't a clue because that information is rarely changed "on the card.*

[Chief Stipe]

Case in point - ARC Great Northern Hurdle yesterday.

MASTER COURTSMAN (B Lammas) - B Lammas was permitted to ride 1kg overweight as no other rider was available.  Slow to begin. Jumped indifferently throughout.

Actually pity Thomaas isn't all over this!

[Chief Stipe]

As for the Golfers!

Before jumping the double on the second round a member of the public had made his way onto the course before being directed away by riders. Auckland Racing Club is to make further inquires into the incident.

With regard to that who were the people standing right next to the Kenny Browne Brush?  One was wearing a singlet and didn't look that official.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Back up there.  Tue Stewards said change the weights.  It took an appeal by Tony Pike to the JCA to overturn it.  Do we know on what basis the JCA made their decision?  "Oh the punters have already punted at those weights so we'll override the T's and C's of the race."

It also seems strange that the error was pointed out AFTER the jockeys were weighed out the first time.

I think your justification is wrong even though you haven't explained it well.  Compare it to the fact jockeys often ride overweight and this isn't declared until the day.  Often the punter hasn't a clue because that information is rarely changed "on the card.*

There is provision in the rules for the overweight situation, not for changing an incorrect carded weight I don't think.

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, curious said:

There is provision in the rules for the overweight situation, not for changing an incorrect carded weight I don't think.

But it is the same outcome. I bet Tony Pike wouldn't have appealed if it had been the other way round i.e. the carded weight was 59 - the T's and C's of the race was 58.  He would have been happy with the Stipes decision!

[Huey]

With regards to the golfers, why isn't the racing club responsible for ensuring safety around this? Surely anyone with any horse sense would know activities like that don't mix with thoroughbreds at the best of times, let alone on race day! Probably lucky it was a jumps race and they could slow down or see them as they approached, heaven forbid a bunch of 2yos running around the place.

Racing club CEO and leadership get lauded for selling, pies,beer, fashion shows & after party but don't get held to account for the most basic requirement of holding a race day i.e. Safety . I'm fed up with everything in NZ racing coming before the actual reason we are having races to race horses, that should be what the course is there for. There is too much focus on other activities occurring at the expense of good basic racing club management-

George Simon and others can call them dickheads or whatever they like , but its time people were held accountable for putting measures in place to ensure this event had little chance of happening, I bet they don't call the leadership out though.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Huey said:

I bet they don't call the leadership out though.

A jockey gets fined for riding overweight who will get fined for the weight stuff up at Hastings?  Normally fines are commensurate with your responsibility and level of management in other industries.  Based on what Lammas got those that stuffed up the Hastings weights should get fined $3,000, 1 year off and a charge of bringing racing into disrepute (or embarrassment?)!

B Lammas MASTER COURTSMAN
Unable to make contracted weight [Rule 330(3)(c)] Suspended 18/10-1/11
incl, 1 day and fined as below

Unable to make contracted weight $300 [Rule 330(3)(c)]

[Chief Stipe]

As expected both incidents glossed over by Weigh In.

Disappointedly, but not unexpected, they glossed over the Weight stuff up at Hastings calling it "just an administrative error made by a clerk somewhere."  FFS!

Meanwhile a Jockey gets 5 days suspension and a $300 fine for riding a 1kg over!

[Chief Stipe]

According to Guerin "this looked a lot worse than it was"!

[Chief Stipe]

But NOW there is a new protocol where the golf course will be closed during the times there are Steeplechase's running.  Not rocket science is it!

[Chief Stipe]

HAWKE'S BAY RI 17 OCTOBER 2020 - R 3 - (REQUEST FOR RULING) - CHAIR, MRS N MOFFATT

Created on 19 October 2020

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Rules:

Committee:

NMoffatt (chair)
NMcCutcheon

Stipendiary Steward(s):

Mr J Oatham - Chief Stipendiary Steward

Name(s):

Mr T Pike - Trainer of MAKZABEEL (1), Mrs D Sweeney - Trainer of RANGER (2), Mr B Saundry - NZTR CEO

Information Number:

A11957

Evidence:

Approximately 10 minutes prior to the start of Race 3 (1:30pm) an Information was lodged with the Judicial Committee requesting a ruling to determine whether weights in the race were correct.

Submission For Decision:

MAKZABEEL (1) and RANGER (2) were contracted by NZTR to carry 58kgs. A short time prior to Race 3 the Stipendiary Stewards were advised by a club official that this weight was incorrect.

Mr Oatham said there was difficulty finding the official programme for the meeting; there did not appear to be one published but looking at conditions for this type of race, a 1 kilo penalty applies for horses who have won two races. Both horses therefore should have been carrying an additional 1 kg bringing their carded weight to 59kgs. It appeared to be a handicapping error, and the Stewards believed the weights needed to be adjusted to what they should have correctly been. Mr Oatham directed that the horses be weighed out at 59kgs.

Mr T Pike, the trainer of MAKZABEEL, requested a ruling from the Judicial Committee as he was not satisfied the weights should be increased.
Mr Pike explained that he did not personally have an issue with it (the weights going up) but the horses involved were the two favourites and a lot of money had been invested on them at the carded weights of 58kgs via fixed odds betting, and the Punters Club. It was an integrity issue and in his opinion, it would not be fair to punters to increase the weights of the two horses so close to the start of the race.

Mrs Sweeney was of the same opinion.

Mr Saundry said the weights had been published, punters had engaged, and he tended to agree with Mr Pike.

Reasons For Decision:

While it was regrettable and unfortunate that such an error had been made, it was not for this Judicial Committee to find out why or how it occurred. We were only required to make a ruling on the weights the two affected horses should carry.

There were two issues to consider; the disadvantage to the remainder of the field who would be 1kg worse off, and the betting public who backed the horses concerned at final-field fixed odds believing them to be carrying 58kgs.

With the knowledge that one group would feel justifiably aggrieved, the Judicial Committee carefully considered all submissions

We determined that the punters’ interests should take precedence. Weights had been declared for 3 days prior, the two horses were favourites, and significant sums of money had been invested on them. The Committee believed it would be grossly unfair on punters, who could be considered the lifeblood of the racing industry, to change weights at this late stage – some 10 minutes before the race.

Decision(s):

The Committee ruled that weights remain the same as the carded weight and directed that both runners be reweighed at 58kgs.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

While it was regrettable and unfortunate that such an error had been made, it was not for this Judicial Committee to find out why or how it occurred. We were only required to make a ruling on the weights the two affected horses should carry.

Isn't it an NZTR issue?  Aka Mr Saundry?

[nomates]

Pike was right and that was my first reaction when i heard them talking about it , fortunately it had no bearing on the result and the resulting redder faces than already had .