Joe Bloggs Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Running Man said: hang on a minute 81mls irrigation and 16mls rain leading into first day jockeys raved about the track so how can 8mls irrigation ruin the track???? 8mls irrigation Thursday night and he says irrigation ruin his cup week WTF Every jockey said track was worn due to that much traffic but was presented in great order considering the amount of races actually didn't Lisa Allpress say after Plushneko won on the rail that of all the time coming to Riccarton that the track was the best its been EVER????? the rail was off due to wear and tear from 28 races like you said try having that many horses and that many races and tell me what track wouldn't be off on rail Well as I've said, our track races every Saturday, plus some midweeks, we've got a cutaway, so you have choices, the rail is as good as 6 off.......it's the skill of the curator, having great admin and management and telling loud mouth trainers or bullies with agendas to F off.........and backing yourselves.........make of that what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 (edited) On 15/11/2020 at 9:50 AM, Reefton said: Looking at the breeding and the names a lot of the owning syndicates Te Akau had there yesterday they would want to win a race or two. When the words 'Breeding Syndicate' appear in rhe ownership one immediately knows they paid top top dollar and when said horse is no longer in possession of his testicles one sort of cringes at the thought of how far down the drain financially the syndicate is. Not to mention the purchase price of a couple they are not taking home with them. For all that the Richards are wonderful people and I admire David Ellis' capabilities in terms of salesmanship but a bit of perspective indicates they should be dominant given the quality of the bloodlines they work with. I would like to withdraw those comments about how much TA paid for those horses. That money has just been put into perspective by an article I just read on Stuff - a Chinese bloke just paid $2.7m for a racing pigeon. Those breeding syndicate horses are a bargain! Edited November 15, 2020 by Reefton 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 On 15/11/2020 at 9:50 AM, Reefton said: Looking at the breeding and the names a lot of the owning syndicates Te Akau had there yesterday they would want to win a race or two. When the words 'Breeding Syndicate' appear in rhe ownership one immediately knows they paid top top dollar and when said horse is no longer in possession of his testicles one sort of cringes at the thought of how far down the drain financially the syndicate is. Isn't there still a Winnie provided tax break on such colts? I might add that you seem to get a better deal with TA than with Fortuna! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 15, 2020 Author Share Posted November 15, 2020 On 15/11/2020 at 12:00 PM, Reefton said: The TA hype might irritate me but you still have to admire the goals they set and the way they strive to achieve them I find them less irritating than Gai Waterhouse and Rogie's "this is the best horse I've had and is going places" everytime one of his horses wins has worn thin long ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) How do I get a share in one of them racing pigeons? just bought a house and it only cost me twice what I thought it was worth so looking for some place to spend the left over cash. Edited November 16, 2020 by curious 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 17 hours ago, the galah said: I once worked with her for a short time some time ago.. I thought she was very down to earth and just a nice lady. Didn't seem pretentious at all. I sometimes read these comments and think they are a bit unkind. I guess if they didn't win as many they would not be on the tv so much. I was there and while she was wearing a bright outfit that stood out I didn't think KFE was over the top at all. The one time I did end up near her she was fairly bubbly but the TA team had just won the Group one - I would have been fairly bubbly myself in the circumstances. Many years ago when I had a share in a horse with them Karyn was great to deal with. To be in the role she is she has to have people skills and she looks to me to have those in spades as do all the Richards family so looks to me that TA have that side well and truly covered 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Isn't there still a Winnie provided tax break on such colts? I might add that you seem to get a better deal with TA than with Fortuna! I am not a bloodstock expert but I would say if your business is in breeding horses then the young ones you breed and buy would be treated as trading stock which means that you would get an inherent deduction for tax purposes when one of them has a massive drop in value(ie gets gelded,dies, is sold or slaughtered) I am not going to try to explain it and bloodstock have their own set of rules but pretty confident there would be a claim. Same as if you are a fashion retailer say and buy a line that proves a dud - you will get an inherent deduction for the loss incurred. The specialist tax rules relate more to the stallions and mares brought for breeding(ie that are going to be used to produce trading stock rather than being trading stock themselves). If you have a colt or mare you bred yourself I think there is a point where they transfer from 'racing' to 'breeding' stock. Of course if you breed it yourself then you have not paid a huge price for it(assuming you own the stallion as well of course) so will not be looking for huge tax breaks. Unlike if you spend $10m buying a stallion - you might be wanting for a writeoff or two. In the case of horses being raced of course there are rules about what you can and can't claim. No deduction for racing expenses but there are some allowed for feed and upkeep. Like I say I am not an expert having had very few clients tied up in that sort of activity. Mr Notts on the other channel is a specialist I know(and happened to be at Riccarton on Saturday as well I might add and has the good taste to be a member of that exclusive organisation the Reefton Jockey Club) From where I sit I think you might be right about Fortuna versus Te Akau but (1) you have a middleman with Fortuna and (2) while Te Akau charge (well in my experience years ago) only the price paid for the horse they extract an extra or two. Still you should go in with your eyes open and David Ellis is a businessman there to make money not friends. I have certainly seen far worse when it comes to prominent syndication organisations in NZ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 23 hours ago, Running Man said: hang on a minute 81mls irrigation and 16mls rain leading into first day jockeys raved about the track so how can 8mls irrigation ruin the track???? 8mls irrigation Thursday night and he says irrigation ruin his cup week WTF Every jockey said track was worn due to that much traffic but was presented in great order considering the amount of races actually didn't Lisa Allpress say after Plushneko won on the rail that of all the time coming to Riccarton that the track was the best its been EVER????? the rail was off due to wear and tear from 28 races like you said try having that many horses and that many races and tell me what track wouldn't be off on rail Think you'll find Plushenko came through 5 widths off the rail...then veered in towards the finish... But...whatever wherever...the point surely is ALL readings taken up the straight should have been made available to Punters after they were taken before 7.30! Ive been hammering this for years and Pitty agrees...so much so he asked the previous CEO to provide such and "just f in do it ffs" Result....Oatham of the hopeless RIU said... "na, Punters will get confused" Actually John no....they have an absolute right to know whether the uneven irrigation system has created a rail bias...or not... Which is what the previous Te Rapa track manager admitted...."the rail has better drainage and is nearly always firmer than further off the rail" Just the opposite at Whanganui in winter...the rail's a death zone...yet they take readings to the 4.5M Mark from the rail...and ignore the running line...where the entire field races 5M from the outside fence How f'd is that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 How hard was it to put the rail out 3m all round? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 17 minutes ago, Thomass said: Think you'll find Plushenko came through 5 widths off the rail...then veered in towards the finish... What are you privy to the Stewards vision that hasn't been posted yet? Rubbish anyway - it "veered in" at the 400m!!! That's a long way from the finish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: How hard was it to put the rail out 3m all round? Yea that too! Albeit....anywhere they inserted it...Punters have the ABSOLUTE right to know where their fake irrigation went.... ...weather it got blown over the fence into the Roses or all the way to the 'get pissed area'... ...just give Punters the info...and we'll work it out from there... None of this Oatham b/s of "Punters will get confused" Thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Thomass said: Yea that too! Albeit....anywhere they inserted it...Punters have the ABSOLUTE right to know where their fake irrigation went.... ...weather it got blown over the fence into the Roses or all the way to the 'get pissed area'... ...just give Punters the info...and we'll work it out from there... None of this Oatham b/s of "Punters will get confused" Thanks John Thomarse are you going to keep posting crap? A penetrometer reading wouldn't have told you that the inside was worn. Nor would that information have helped the punter. Especially if none of the Jockey's had bothered to walk the track nor think nor not follow the leader. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Thomarse are you going to keep posting crap? A penetrometer reading wouldn't have told you that the inside was worn. Nor would that information have helped the punter. Especially if none of the Jockey's had bothered to walk the track nor think nor not follow the leader. Who knows? Rodely interviewed him..."we've put the sods back into place...outed the rail around the top where it's worn out...taken a few core samples which shows good moisture...everything's hunky dorey" The new Going Stick readings could have shown the 'core samples' to be all over the show...we'll never know if that contributed or not... Pitty told his Jockeys "its wet, come down the outside...like all of the other winners" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Thomass said: Pitty told his Jockeys "its wet, come down the outside...like all of the other winners" Why would Jockey's listen to Pitty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, Thomass said: Pitty told his Jockeys "its wet, come down the outside...like all of the other winners" Well i backed 3 Pitman horses and none of the jockey's listened to him if that was what he instructed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why would Jockey's listen to Pitty? Cameron certainly didn't. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: How hard was it to put the rail out 3m all round? The bit i don't get , they put the rail out on the bend till the 400/450 and left the straight in the true position . Odd decision to start with but definitely in retrospect . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, nomates said: The bit i don't get , they put the rail out on the bend till the 400/450 and left the straight in the true position . Odd decision to start with but definitely in retrospect . Yeah, agree there. If saving ground was the idea, why not have the rail out a bit for the first day, in to allow fresh ground the second day, then right in to allow more fresh ground against the rail. Seems to me to be going the wrong way...but there may be a good reason that I can't think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, nomates said: Well i backed 3 Pitman horses and none of the jockey's listened to him if that was what he instructed . Yep Sammy Wynne "to be sure Sammy...put yer oideers away that the rail is da shorrrrtest way hoime...oi Kay" Straight Sets...fell out...went to the rail...finished with a wet sail doiwn da oitside to be sure Where it wasn't wet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Freda said: Yeah, agree there. If saving ground was the idea, why not have the rail out a bit for the first day, in to allow fresh ground the second day, then right in to allow more fresh ground against the rail. Seems to me to be going the wrong way...but there may be a good reason that I can't think of. Then you have a wider strip that could be worn. At the end of the day the protests of a bias are exaggerated. The inside was worn but Riccarton is a big track and you didn't have to run on it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 16, 2020 Author Share Posted November 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thomass said: Where it wasn't wet! How do you know it was "wet" on the inside? The complaints were that it was "worn"...... If irrigation created a bias then why did this not happen on the first day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, Freda said: Yeah, agree there. If saving ground was the idea, why not have the rail out a bit for the first day, in to allow fresh ground the second day, then right in to allow more fresh ground against the rail. Seems to me to be going the wrong way...but there may be a good reason that I can't think of. I think most tracks with a carnival work on moving rail out as meeting progresses , if it rained after the first 1/2 days and the rail was being moved inward then the inside would be all but unused for last day/days if wet enough and horses would still be chewing up the wider parts of the track . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Man Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: How do you know it was "wet" on the inside? The complaints were that it was "worn"...... If irrigation created a bias then why did this not happen on the first day? no one will have the answer to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Man Posted November 16, 2020 Share Posted November 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Thomass said: Think you'll find Plushenko came through 5 widths off the rail...then veered in towards the finish... But...whatever wherever...the point surely is ALL readings taken up the straight should have been made available to Punters after they were taken before 7.30! Ive been hammering this for years and Pitty agrees...so much so he asked the previous CEO to provide such and "just f in do it ffs" Result....Oatham of the hopeless RIU said... "na, Punters will get confused" Actually John no....they have an absolute right to know whether the uneven irrigation system has created a rail bias...or not... Which is what the previous Te Rapa track manager admitted...."the rail has better drainage and is nearly always firmer than further off the rail" Just the opposite at Whanganui in winter...the rail's a death zone...yet they take readings to the 4.5M Mark from the rail...and ignore the running line...where the entire field races 5M from the outside fence How f'd is that? your not very smart if you agree with pitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 17, 2020 Share Posted November 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, Running Man said: your not very smart if you agree with pitty Big statement given how many winners he has trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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