Kumara

[Chief Stipe]

Hokitika or Westland Racing Club WAS and for that matter still is one of the longest racing clubs in NZ.  It was founded in 1865!  That is 155 years ago!

[Tesio]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are you taking the piss or do you actually believe what you are posting?  Do you have a horse racing with Pitty?  The Westland Racing Club supported the industry for decades WITHOUT any support from the industry.  They did it with local community support and nothing else.  They WERE the industry.  They should BE the industry.  Obviously you have no understanding of history nor respect for it.

Who decides what the stakes are?  Not Hokitika!  However you are happy to pitch up with your horse on a substandard track which is detrimental to the health of your horse because NZTR decides who has what stakes?  Their decision has nothing to do with with what the races produce in terms of revenue.

Are you a BGP member?

No horses with Pitty.

So The $132k The Westland Club received from NZTR last season does not does not constitute any support from the Industry? I note the Westland club only paid out $91k in stakes that season, leaves a bit left over for the club to operate didn’t it......one of the worst ratio’s in the country....and it was like that every year. So to claim the club had no support from the Industry is a bit rich.

‘They were the industry”.....that’s a bit off point, who trains horses in Westland or the coast for that matter? Once again not thinking from a owners point of view....who is smack in the middle of the industry.

No Hoki doesn’t set minimum stakes.....but they have the option to pay more club money to boost stakes....if it was such a wonderful club why didn’t they do that?

BGP - no not me, but i have more investment per month in this industry than probably most people on this site do.

 

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Tesio said:

So The $132k The Westland Club received from NZTR last season does not does not constitute any support from the Industry? I note the Westland club only paid out $91k in stakes that season, leaves a bit left over for the club to operate didn’t it......one of the worst ratio’s in the country....and it was like that every year. So to claim the club had no support from the Industry is a bit rich.

 

Back up there sunshine!  You haven't subtracted how much the club had to pay BACK for the privilege of racing.  Go look at the figures and start again.

What's more I can tell that you aren't your "average" owner but you are being fed the bullshit propaganda from NZTR.

[Tesio]

20 minutes ago, Huey said:

I thought  all these types of fools had disappeared, FFS get educated! 

I think 40 years in this industry has me above average educated champ

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Tesio said:

I think 40 years in this industry has me above average educated champ

Well you haven't shown that yet.

[Chief Stipe]

25 minutes ago, Tesio said:

So The $132k The Westland Club received from NZTR last season does not does not constitute any support from the Industry? I note the Westland club only paid out $91k in stakes that season, leaves a bit left over for the club to operate didn’t it......one of the worst ratio’s in the country....and it was like that every year.

Worse than who?

I'll tell you better than WHO!

Cambridge JC - they are the guys that just got the benefit donation of $10m to build a new track.

Greymouth JC.

Masterton

Oamaru

Reefton

Riverton

Rotorua-BOHP

South Waikato

Taupo

Thames

Waikouaiti

Wairarapa

Whakatane

Woodville

Now these clubs all got shit days and had to pay the same fees BACK to NZTR for the over priced broadcasting arrangement.

So I think the 40 years you have had in the industry has been with your head in the sand!

[Chief Stipe]

Oh and while you are reviewing the stats Tesio check out revenue generated per stakes paid.  That is the bottom line.  

I'm waiting champ!

Or do you work in Real Estate?

[Tesio]

12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Back up there sunshine!  You haven't subtracted how much the club had to pay BACK for the privilege of racing.  Go look at the figures and start again.

What's more I can tell that you aren't your "average" owner but you are being fed the bullshit propaganda from NZTR.

‘Race Meeting Expenses’ paid for by ‘Industry Profit distribution’.........in summary the Industry is paying for the race meeting.......that same Industry you claim didn’t support Westland club.

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Tesio said:

‘Race Meeting Expenses’ paid for by ‘Industry Profit distribution’.........in summary the Industry is paying for the race meeting.......that same Industry you claim didn’t support Westland club.

Fuck you really are starting to piss me off.  Have you reviewed every annual return on the Incorporated Societies website for each of these clubs?  I have.  I can tell you that you are talking shyte.  Go have a squiz!

May I suggest you go back and your homework.  Obviously you are a mouthpiece for someone because I'm assuming you are an intelligent person however what you are saying is not backed up by the facts.

[Tesio]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Worse than who?

I'll tell you better than WHO!

Cambridge JC - they are the guys that just got the benefit donation of $10m to build a new track.

Greymount JC.

Masterton

Oamaru

Reefton

Riverton

Rotorua-BOHP

South Waikato

Taupo

Thames

Waikouaiti

Wairarapa

Whakatane

Woodville

Now these clubs all got shit days and had to pay the same fees BACK to NZTR for the over priced broadcasting arrangement.

So I think the 40 years you have had in the industry has been with your head in the sand!

I dont think claiming your ratio is better than these clubs is summing to pin on the wall. NOT exactly the best benchmark some of those clubs....and then factor in their is approx 60 clubs in NZ.

And crying over the $10m for Cambridge....FFS look at the horse population demographic.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Tesio said:

‘Race Meeting Expenses’ paid for by ‘Industry Profit distribution’.........in summary the Industry is paying for the race meeting.......that same Industry you claim didn’t support Westland club.

Expert - tell me what does the club pay BACK to NZTR to hold the meeting?

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Tesio said:

And crying over the $10m for Cambridge....FFS look at the horse population demographic.

The same club that until now raced at Te Rapa - didn't even have to maintain that track!  What's more with the HUGE horse population needed a Government handout to build a new training track because their grass track was fucked.  Why the hell couldn't they fund it themselves?

[Chief Stipe]

Next.  Tesio is lucky Reefton is either having dinner or down at the track preparing for the next meeting or at the local.

[Tesio]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Expert - tell me what does the club pay BACK to NZTR to hold the meeting?

Not as much as the Westland Racing Club paid to “suppliers and employees” for 2020....$254,100...........up a fraction form only $51,367 the previous year.

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Tesio said:

Not as much as the Westland Racing Club paid to “suppliers and employees” for 2020....$254,100...........up a fraction form only $51,367 the previous year.

Oh ok now you are doing your homework.  May I ask what is your motivation?  What is YOUR self-interest?

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Not as much as the Westland Racing Club paid to “suppliers and employees” for 2020....$254,100...........up a fraction form only $51,367 the previous year.

Now this is interesting. Can you show me where you get these numbers from the attached filing.

 

westland_2020.pdf

[Tesio]

Just now, Chief Stipe said:

Oh ok now you are doing your homework.  May I ask what is your motivation?  What is YOUR self-interest?

To be honest with you Chief.......I’m just sick and tired of people looking backwards......not prepared to change (that includes NZTR) , doing things on the back of entitlement and because they have always been done that way. This industry is screwed if we don't drastically change. Owners are forgotten about in the general industry debate.....me i just have a simple business and breed to race......am i still going to keep doing that... yes. Will i race my 2yr old crop in the Sth island next year....prob not. I’m just as critical with CJC and their crap race programming for 2yr olds and 3yr olds.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Tesio said:

I’m just sick and tired of people looking backwards.

So tell me anything that has been done recent is actually "looking forwards"?  Explain why.  If you are breeding quality stock then you seriously need to look to Australia.

[nomates]

19 minutes ago, Tesio said:

‘Race Meeting Expenses’ paid for by ‘Industry Profit distribution’.........in summary the Industry is paying for the race meeting.......that same Industry you claim didn’t support Westland club.

And by paying for the club to host the meeting the TAB garners revenue which they then redistribute back to the codes to host more meetings . The wheel that keeps the industry afloat , barely at the moment . There have been plenty of studies done showing return for cost and they all show that the small meetings return more to the industry for each dollar invested than any of the big clubs . The smaller clubs aren't moaning at that equation , they are just happy to have their day in the sun .

Every big sport is underpinned by the lower grades , the All Blacks a classic example , the are the best because of all the lesser grades of rugby that produce revenues as well as giving the players a pathway , that go back to HQ that funds the ABs . English football is the same .

None of racings small players begrudge their lesser position but don't get pissed if they fight back when unfairly treated .

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Tesio said:

To be honest with you Chief.......I’m just sick and tired of people looking backwards......not prepared to change (that includes NZTR) , doing things on the back of entitlement and because they have always been done that way. This industry is screwed if we don't drastically change. Owners are forgotten about in the general industry debate.....me i just have a simple business and breed to race......am i still going to keep doing that... yes. Will i race my 2yr old crop in the Sth island next year....prob not. I’m just as critical with CJC and their crap race programming for 2yr olds and 3yr olds.

Good Luck.  But just a piece of advice - don't knock those that have actually put some hard yards in the industry nor knock a racing club that was built on community involvement and support over more than 100 years.  At the end of the day we all have something in common and that is the love of the horse and racing it.

I don't mind change but what I hate is change that disenfranchises those who do and may love horse racing to ends up with developments that only serve to help the self-interested few WITHOUT any solid business case.  Be aware of false prophets.  I guess your horses are with a prominent Canterbury Trainer?

I'll add that from experience it is easy to blame someone else for losing money on horses.  At the end of the day no matter what changes you will still lose over time unless you are either very lucky or very smart.  I've been very lucky - they've cost me nothing.  100% winners from every horse I've owned or bred.  I've owned more than one!

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, nomates said:

The smaller clubs aren't moaning at that equation , they are just happy to have their day in the sun .

Yes exactly and they are low cost delivery models as opposed the the BIG clubs.

[nomates]

9 minutes ago, Tesio said:

To be honest with you Chief.......I’m just sick and tired of people looking backwards......not prepared to change (that includes NZTR) , doing things on the back of entitlement and because they have always been done that way. This industry is screwed if we don't drastically change. Owners are forgotten about in the general industry debate.....me i just have a simple business and breed to race......am i still going to keep doing that... yes. Will i race my 2yr old crop in the Sth island next year....prob not. I’m just as critical with CJC and their crap race programming for 2yr olds and 3yr olds.

You need to go back and catch up with some of the discussion on this site , plenty of discussion about the requirement for change , major change . The leaders of the industry that your are supporting are the ones lacking forward vision , same old same old , season after season . Would love for you to tell me one major initiative that has made a dramatic change within the galloping code to come out of NZTR HQ in the last god knows how many years . I wont hold my breath waiting for you come back with one , i know the answer .

As for owners no one has championed the plight and complete disregard that the powers that be have for them than myself , they have shown no initiative on how to grow the ownership pool or even retain the ones they have . I agree with your comment about them being the forgotten ones , but they are not at NZTR , no they are the first point of contact when they up costs as seen in the latest jockey fee increase .

I to have 40 years in the industry and there are many on here with more , the one common thread between us is our love and passion for the horse and the industry . We all want solutions .

[nomates]

Well Chief , i thought i would say nothing and leave it to Reefton , but no , you couldn't wait , in you went boots and all . Well said .

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

Well Chief , i thought i would say nothing and leave it to Reefton , but no , you couldn't wait , in you went boots and all . Well said .

Not shy.

[Freda]

Well said indeed.   

Tesio, I - we - share your disgruntlement about the direction of the industry, but, as others have pointed out, it is not the small clubs which deserve your ire.

One or two points in addition;   your gripe about 'shit stakes' at Westland. That was not the fault of the club, I know  they had the money, and wanted to put on a high-staked day, but were not allowed to.

Many times they wanted to run more races, or divide some when horses were eliminated - but weren't allowed to do that either.

Funding /turnover distributions have been changing over the years, for your 40 and more, small clubs have had their portion of 'payback' altered, time and time again, for the purpose of propping up the big clubs, the most uneconomic of all.

Don't forget the funding was not a gift - small clubs ran meetings [ with huge community and voluntary help ]  to contribute to the whole, but certainly have not had a fair suck of the sav.

Travel for rubbish money?  it has never been compulsory.  Dave Kerr, many, many years ago, refused to travel to provincial days, generally - he said then it was too expensive.  If they can't race at Riccarton, he said, they aren't good enough to have in work.  Your involvement is long enough to have been well aware of that.