Chief Stipe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Huey said: I hear it is well underway. Well he has to finance his new computer system and expanded marketing department somehow. I dont see it coming from punter revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 22 hours ago, Tesio said: Supply and demand is pretty fundamental to economics Reefton ‘Supply and demand’? Is that the same supply and demand that saw Riccarton run three weekday meetings a couple of years back and not crack $30k in oncourse turnover? And battle to get 60 horses for any of the meetings. Clearly on industry days (with the same ‘crap’ stakes you lament at Westland) there is limited demand (and limited supply of horses) for their meetings. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Huey said: Because they do not have a fundamental understanding of how the sport really operates, what they see at Ellerslie & Riccarton during carnivals is how they think it is. Yes and history tells us that that focus has brought down large civilisations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 22 hours ago, Tesio said: Supply and demand is pretty fundamental to economics Reefton Yes and so is rate of return. And the rate of return to the industry on the capital value of those valuable tracks is abysmal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 22 hours ago, Tesio said: (that could be the pot calling the kettle black) my favourite Raceday in NZ is actually Kurow. Well there you go. I have it on reasonably good authority that the Kurow JC has also taken steps to stop NZTR getting their grubby little paws on their asset. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Reefton said: Well there you go. I have it on reasonably good authority that the Kurow JC has also taken steps to stop NZTR getting their grubby little paws on their asset. Yep and the % of community involvement in supporting the club and attending the race meetings would far outweigh Ellerslie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 20 hours ago, nomates said: You just don't get it , they all need each other , the strength of the industry and the big players are underpinned by the strength of the small players . This industry was great once , because of the strength of all the parts of it . Read what i said earlier , there are no All Blacks without all the clubs , no matter how small , playing their part . It's the same for racing . We are now in the shape we are in because for too long now they have been taking more and more or giving less and less to the lower and middle tier clubs and given more and more to the larger clubs , who for the large part are still financially struggling for all that aid . This model can only survive for so long . You go on and on about owners , and i am on your side there , but why do you think the industry is struggling to retain the owners they have , far less increase the numbers . The strength of the industry was underpinned by the multitude of owners with small club affiliations . No one on here is going to change your mind , clearly you are another supporter of the theory that smaller clubs have been " sucking the industry dry " . The biggest fallacy in the industry . Good luck to you , your going to need . Quite right Nomates we do need everybody and I am not seriously suggesting we can do without the major Clubs. But when people focus on us small Clubs as the reason for the industry ills then they need a bit of reality pointed out. The fact is that racing is probably the wealthiest sport in NZ (in terms of real estate - golf would be the only one within coo-ee)but that capital value is not being used the way it should. As I have said so often Riccarton could grab its insurance payout for that stand, negotiate to get a huge chuck of money for the site and move out to WestMelton or Darfield, build a model facility, have a couple of hundred mill in the bank and be able to run three or four million dollar races a year. People only turn up to the place once or twice a year so why do you need to be in the guts of the city. Their track is rooted and their buildings have seen better days. MOVE ! Even better if they could get Addington to join them. Harold Park did it. In Ellerslie’s case they have this big plan but wouldn’t you cash up the really valuable asset and redevelop Avondale? Or cash them both up and find somewhere North or South for a model facility. They could run a million dollar race every week. And ironically if those big clubs bit the bullet they would actually achieve the Messara aim anyway - pretty soon the owners would stop going to the likes of Reefton because we could not compete stakes wise. Which at the end of the day I would accept because it is true economics in action. I always said the owners and trainers will tell us when it is time to go being when they stop sending horses there. And at the moment (touch wood) that is not happening. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yep and the % of community involvement in supporting the club and attending the race meetings would far outweigh Ellerslie. Exactly. Riccarton and Ellerslie both prove the ‘familiarity breeds contempt’ adage. Nobody wants to go there apart form three or four days a year. I have nothing against the CJC really(most of the committee I have met are decent blokes and have been very welcoming the odd time I get into their committee room and Tim and his crew have never done me any harm) but live and let live I say. Don’t crush the RJC to fund those guys - let them stand on their own two feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Huey said: So your solution is to kick everyone who doesn't train at Cambridge, Riccarton ,Awapuni or Pukekohe to the kerb? Reducing venues will not sustain or increase horse numbers, if that was the case why are country/picnic venues still a huge part of Aus racing? Please don't tell me you think like NZTR, in that the horses trained elsewhere will just magically turn up at these venues they are favouring, it won't happen. At any rate the demise has begun in haste and a once great industry will soon only be a shadow of its former self. Huey, when have i said to kick everyone who doesn’t train at the big clubs? That’s ridiculous......some of you guys on here are so blinded that is impacting your thought process. We still need county racing .....for god sake who disagrees with that. But can you tell me the balance is right? Is the number of venues balance right? Let s get back to what started this, hoki, kumara, greymouth, Reefton.........what is even the population of Reefton...is it even a 1000 people? Do we need racing on the coast, yes....but in the say format that is has been done for the past donkey years....no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 What format would you suggest then Tesio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tesio said: Let s get back to what started this, hoki, kumara, greymouth, Reefton.........what is even the population of Reefton...is it even a 1000 people? The population of Reefton is a damn sight more than Kumara which is 309. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 41 minutes ago, Reefton said: ‘Supply and demand’? Is that the same supply and demand that saw Riccarton run three weekday meetings a couple of years back and not crack $30k in oncourse turnover? And battle to get 60 horses for any of the meetings. Clearly on industry days (with the same ‘crap’ stakes you lament at Westland) there is limited demand (and limited supply of horses) for their meetings. Not that bad for its worst day.....compared to Westland 1 and only big day that could only achieve $49k on course and 74 horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tesio said: Not that bad for its worst day.....compared to Westland 1 and only big day that could only achieve $49k on course and 74 horses. Difference was Westland had money in the bank and because of the actions of NZTR and co, with the passive support of the likes of you, they now don’t have the money in the bank and it(the money) is lost to the NZ racing industry. And there are people beating about it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tesio said: Huey, when have i said to kick everyone who doesn’t train at the big clubs? That’s ridiculous......some of you guys on here are so blinded that is impacting your thought process. We still need county racing .....for god sake who disagrees with that. But can you tell me the balance is right? Is the number of venues balance right? Let s get back to what started this, hoki, kumara, greymouth, Reefton.........what is even the population of Reefton...is it even a 1000 people? Do we need racing on the coast, yes....but in the say format that is has been done for the past donkey years....no. I haven’t got the calculation because I am not home but on a proportionate basis on population and turnover Ellerslie should be turning over (I think) $40m on course per Raceday. They are a dollar or two away. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tesio said: Not that bad for its worst day.....compared to Westland 1 and only big day that could only achieve $49k on course and 74 horses. LOL I suggest you don't go down the path of comparing on-course turnovers nor horse numbers. You might be stunned if you widened your analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, curious said: What format would you suggest then Tesio? Curious....I don't confess to having the magic solution.....but i do accept drastic change is needed, unlike many on here. As i mention previously, West Coast racing has shot itself in the foot, thanks to Westland Club. West Coast racing actually has a strategic advantage.....thing called a social licence. Very hard for NZTR TO SHUT DOWN RACING IN A REGION...but if all west coast clubs keep operating on a individual basis with their heads in the sand, then they will be picked off one by one. Presenting a united proactive proposal to NZTR on what a CHANGED FUTURE might look like on the West Coast could be a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tesio said: Presenting a united proactive proposal to NZTR on what a CHANGED FUTURE might look like on the West Coast could be a good start. Yes and that wouldn't have involved Kumara in the future for any number of reasons. But Messara and NZTR deemed it to be "special" for what reasons many of us can't fathom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tesio said: Curious....I don't confess to having the magic solution.....but i do accept drastic change is needed, unlike many on here. As i mention previously, West Coast racing has shot itself in the foot, thanks to Westland Club. West Coast racing actually has a strategic advantage.....thing called a social licence. Very hard for NZTR TO SHUT DOWN RACING IN A REGION...but if all west coast clubs keep operating on a individual basis with their heads in the sand, then they will be picked off one by one. Presenting a united proactive proposal to NZTR on what a CHANGED FUTURE might look like on the West Coast could be a good start. No they bloody well won’t be picked off one by one. Not if I have anything to do with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Anyway enough of this bullshit.... Last night I am in the Pub in Cromwell and a bunch of Irish blokes are there having great craic(or however you spell it). Get talking to one and discover he is a racing man. Ever been to the races on the Coast I say. ‘Yes’ he says ‘I love going to Reefton every year’. Next thing I have a potential sponsor on my hands. Said I will meet up at the races today but bit worried about the potential hangover subsequent! Nice to see that someone loves us. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Irish would be your first language wouldn't it Reefton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I rather go to a coast meeting any day, atmosphere great, tracks close to the action, you don't need to watch the races on a big screen, happened to be in christchurch the day of the galloping cup, was intended to go, but was sold out with no gate sales, one time I would have pissed off, but this occasion, it was like oh well, be people everywhere, many not all racing racing supporters, few drunk ones as well,, 40$ to get in, horses miles away, have to watch them on the big screen, and those pictures not that clear, so all in all had few bets, watched them on my phone and had a good look around the city, funny how things change, once I'd be breaking a leg to get in, instead I will try to attend a couple of the coast meetings, amongst work commitments, and I'm 100 percent sure i will have a much more enjoyable time. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Irish would be your first language wouldn't it Reefton? Well the name is Molloy and Mum’s name was Doolan so I’d say there is a fair chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) Incidentally any BOAYers coming to the Coast let me know so the appropriate hospitality can be extended(at my meeting at least) Edited November 28, 2020 by Reefton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Yes and that wouldn't have involved Kumara in the future for any number of reasons. But Messara and NZTR deemed it to be "special" for what reasons many of us can't fathom. Because Winston liked getting on the piss there. And all the drunks (non racing I might add) telling him how great it is he saved the Club. Wouldnt be surprised he turns up there in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesio Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Reefton said: Yes and so is rate of return. And the rate of return to the industry on the capital value of those valuable tracks is abysmal. Your forgetting a key component of Rate of Return .....capital growth. What’s the value of those tracks now days? If they are Industry tracks, then I would say their ROR to the industry is doing pretty OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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