Karrots Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) Sorry forgot to include the Star too. As a comparison, the Star have only 2 which is far more reasonable in my eyes. So actually combining the 2 together we are at a count of 7 articles in what approx 6 ish weeks so far. 10 is actually looking quite likely. https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-sport/star-racing/canterbury-trainer-facing-horse-doping-charges https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-sport/star-racing/harness-racing’s-heartland-blighted-raids-and-unsavoury-publicity (included in article) Edited March 19, 2021 by Karrots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 51 minutes ago, the galah said: Whats the aussie who bought Smokin By from m kerr thinking. He bought a 7 win horse from 23 starts,that was good enough to start in the nz cup. He pays good money for it,takes it to aussie,only to find it immediately is not competitive, even when it drops back in grades. So he sells it cheap. Now that fella must feel totally ripped off when he learns about what is being said about the kerr stable. could have been worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Here's my take on it. These guys are journo's and have to print this stuff as it comes along. Part of their job. As Galah says they are sort of telling the public, these cheats/rule breakers ARE being weeded out , and Punished too. ! a good thing. As some like Brodie say , they are overdoing it. Too much rehashing. Putting a picture of McGrath (7 years DQ) with a Big trophy was sending a BAD MESSAGE. A picture tells a thousand words, and that picture was just saying to me that 'Cheats Prosper in Harness Racing" not a good image to keep projecting, for the sport at all. And also (JUST like the presence of a booze bus that Doesn't catch anyone on the road) the RIU and Inca have 'played a part' even if Chief is saying what a joke. Surely with their presence and dealing with McGrath types, the Industry is in good shape (cheat wise) as everyone would of backed off a bit with illegal activity. So I think Galah would be right in saying Harness more 'Clean' than ever, and Alford a rare abnomily. The KERR thing sounds particularly nasty as would be driving good folk out of the industry getting ripped off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Galah, some very fair points, however it is the gutter journalism by VB and SS and the rehashing and crucifying of harness racing that is abhorrent here! Yes I appreciate there have been some astonishing turnarounds in horses form etc. and that also includes The Spitfire! I am certainly not questioning Amber Hoffmans training ability however! The Inca BS has cost the industry heavily financially and publicity wise and yet still nothing! Yes I do not condone any cheating but FFS who is it that is feeding this muck raking stuff to The Press? inside job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 On 18/03/2021 at 3:52 PM, Davis said: McGrath has broken the rules at least three times so he should be gone for good? NO allan beck broken the rules 3 times got fine 8grand should he have got 8years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 16 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: NO allan beck broken the rules 3 times got fine 8grand should he have got 8years? was he cooperative on all 3 occasions ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rangatira said: was he cooperative on all 3 occasions ? Has he even had 3 occasions? Is hunter getting him mixed up with kevin townley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Just now, the galah said: Has he even had 3 occasions? Is hunter getting him mixed up with kevin townley? he might be on it early 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 On 18/03/2021 at 2:17 PM, Basil said: The sad fact of the matter is that too many harness participants got away with far too much for far too long, and now the chickens are coming home to roost: 100+ years of overly-friendly reporting has been replaced by something a bit more honest. If the harness industry wants to change that, it needs to take its head out the sand, stop scapegoating a 'few greedy cheating individuals', and recognise that there's a deep and systematic problem which needs to be rooted out. In short, The Galah is right and no amount of playing-the-victim is going to change that. Totally agree, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 3 hours ago, the galah said: Well i will tell you what i think Brodie. I think the press reporters know there is more to come and they are keeping this subject on the boil. They ,and those who decide what they print deem it news worthy. Isn't it about time you started filling in the dots.How about lets look at it from a horse performance point of view,which the press have not really touched on so far. Well those who have been the subject of the stories are. Matt anderson. Now i'm sure brodie you started a thread on the horse Noble mistress after matt anderson took over the training of this struggling non win trotter after it won by 10 lengths at addington in a very fast time. You questioned how could that happen. Who's a close associate, mitchell kerr. Anderson was Mitchell kerrs regular driver.Anderson also drove for jesse alford. Mitchell Kerr. This stable has long been the subject of innuendo relating to horse performances. The one off turnaround in form by arcano at addington was the subject of a bit of a yarn topic. Well who did Kerr also help out. steve dolan. Steve dolan. The amazing win by the horse tall poppy at timaru. that day it jogged 2000m in 2.25 horse,winning by 12 lengths and looked like it could have just kept running at the finish. When stewards received information that Dolan had in fact given the horse to kerr to train for a few days,and failed to notify authorities,dolan was fined. Remember dolan got that 10 start non win pacer form southland last year, and won by about 18 lengths at addington. I have previously started a thread on a the performance of his horses. Jesse alford. Well M Anderson was a driver he often used. The win by the Alford horse at ashburton in 2.55 by a big space was a jaw dropping improvement on its previous runs before joining his stable.Now hes been caught. So why is cam jones now the focus of the articles. I don't know. What i do know is M kerr and matt anderson were the drivers of the cam jones horse no nuke skipper,who provided jones with most of this seasons wins. Who is have the press said is lobbying to get matt anderson back into harness racing. Peter jones and ken spicer. Peter jones related to cam jones.Ken spicer former boss at hrnz. Who has been Nigel Mcraths main supporter. Ken Spicer. There you go. I have filled in some of the dots for you Brodie. I'm not even privy to what the press know. What i have just written is common knowledge. And as i have just said earlier. They no doubt have far more to write,its just whether it sees the light of day. Brodie,you and others can keep telling everyone its all a witch hunt,i don't think so. Well said, Held To Ransom also adds to puzzle. No secret that that majority of charges over the last few years, come from the same group, from the same area. Coincidence or not? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: And also (JUST like the presence of a booze bus that Doesn't catch anyone on the road) the RIU and Inca have 'played a part' even if Chief is saying what a joke. Surely with their presence and dealing with McGrath types, the Industry is in good shape (cheat wise) as everyone would of backed off a bit with illegal activity. So I think Galah would be right in saying Harness more 'Clean' than ever, and Alford a rare abnomily. But what did they catch? Any evidence of race fixing? How many performance enhancing drugs uncovered? SFA! About the worst they have got is recreational drug use and dealing. No more or less than if you put any industry under surveillance. As for the "booze bus" effect aka deterrent - really? Doesn't the fact that they have caught SFA send the opposite message? That is it appears to be relatively easy to get away with race fixing and performance enhancing drugs. Of course that assumes that there is a "systemic and endemic problem going right to the core" of harness racing. I would say that that assumption is in fact not correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Aren't we still waiting for some BIG result from INCA? When is it coming Galah/Newmarket you seem to have the inside info? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: was he cooperative on all 3 occasions ? 2 occasions . so 8years for telling a member of the Riu to F off ? this is how inconsistent the Riu are with fines ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: he might be on it early your fuckwit lance don't drink 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: your fuckwit lance don't drink i so wish i didn't drink i lose so much sleep wondering what gibberish i have posted the previous night Edited March 20, 2021 by Rangatira 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: As for the "booze bus" effect aka deterrent - really? Doesn't the fact that they have caught SFA send the opposite message? That is it appears to be relatively easy to get away with race fixing and performance enhancing drugs. Of course that assumes that there is a "systemic and endemic problem going right to the core" of harness racing. I would say that that assumption is in fact not correct. A very good deterrent really. Without random breath test The roads would be full of people 'risking' those extra drinks and being over the limits . Not catching anyone? proof it is working. The RIU a very good deterrent. . without investigations, sampling etc, The tracks would be full of people 'risking' those extra touch-ups to horse and going over the limit, or a punt on a fix race (a criminal offence so good to have police involvement), Not catching anyone? proof it is working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 8 minutes ago, Gammalite said: The RIU a very good deterrent. . without investigations, sampling etc, The tracks would be full of people 'risking' those extra touch-ups to horse and going over the limit, or a punt on a fix race (a criminal offence so good to have police involvement), Not catching anyone? proof it is working. Yes but the fact is there has been next to nothing found. No proof of "systemic widespread drug use"! Same with race fixing. Zilch, zip, nada! INCA SFA! Now as I said once the Allford case came to light - what was it that he was administering that he thought would not be detected by normal swab and blood testing? IF the RIU had already identified prohibited substances from raceday samples then it is a dereliction of duty and a serious blight on their integrity to sit on the results. If that really is the case and you approve of that approach to maintaining integrity in racing then that would be it for me with regard to racing. Going to be really interesting to see what comes out of the inquiry in Victoria. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: wondering what gibberish i have posted the previous night  And then there are some that don't need any booze to post gibberish on a regular basis lol. Not meaning you Ranga 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Aren't we still waiting for some BIG result from INCA? When is it coming Galah/Newmarket you seem to have the inside info? Are you for real? FFS, why do you think people have left the game all of a sudden? How many people, at the top of the tree, have suddenly handed the reigns to somebody else?? Come on , dont be so stupid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Are you for real? FFS, why do you think people have left the game all of a sudden? How many people, at the top of the tree, have suddenly handed the reigns to somebody else?? Come on , dont be so stupid Where is the evidence of systemic corruption? If it was that widespread there would be something. As for people leaving well who has actually left? Not a huge number is it. I seriously doubt you are for real as you continually fail to post any proof. All you do is say "look at such and such a race. Oooohh something dodgy going on there!" But you have no evidence! You are as bad as Galah with your "join the dots". Even today you insinuate that something was wrong at the All Stars stable because "their horses this year haven't been able to sit three wide and win!" Which is a nonsensical statement without any evidence. You then rubbish a good measure of performance the UDR's for the only reason that data doesn't back up your baseless assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 59 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Are you for real? FFS, why do you think people have left the game all of a sudden? How many people, at the top of the tree, have suddenly handed the reigns to somebody else?? Come on , dont be so stupid can't see them being overly concerned about inca, certainly not to the extent of handing the reigns to someone else 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Where is the evidence of systemic corruption? If it was that widespread there would be something. As for people leaving well who has actually left? Not a huge number is it. I seriously doubt you are for real as you continually fail to post any proof. All you do is say "look at such and such a race. Oooohh something dodgy going on there!" But you have no evidence! You are as bad as Galah with your "join the dots". Even today you insinuate that something was wrong at the All Stars stable because "their horses this year haven't been able to sit three wide and win!" Which is a nonsensical statement without any evidence. You then rubbish a good measure of performance the UDR's for the only reason that data doesn't back up your baseless assertion. Somehow i don't think you would be much good as a punter. If you haven't been able to notice the difference in the performance of the all star horses,then your not much of a judge of race replays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robalan Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 reins drive, reigns rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 1 hour ago, the galah said: Somehow i don't think you would be much good as a punter. If you haven't been able to notice the difference in the performance of the all star horses,then your not much of a judge of race replays. Based on this comment it would seem you haven't done any analysis just working on what you have "seen". Hardly a good punting strategy. Was it you not earlier in the season that was using UDR's to support your view? But as soon as I pointed out that when taking into consideration other statistics the UDR's for the Allstars team wasn't as bad has your "sight" determined that measure was dropped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Based on this comment it would seem you haven't done any analysis just working on what you have "seen". Hardly a good punting strategy. Was it you not earlier in the season that was using UDR's to support your view? But as soon as I pointed out that when taking into consideration other statistics the UDR's for the Allstars team wasn't as bad has your "sight" determined that measure was dropped. We see things differently. I have total faith in my judgment. But to use the UDR and win numbers. 2016 131 wins udr .5063 2017 110 .4493 2018 122 .4762 2019 115 .4828 2020 81 .4540 2021 53 .4067 Hayden cullen 2021 12 .4004 2020 win numbers were lower because of covid. So there has been a reduction in the udr and win numbers. It will interesting to see the end of season figures. Edited March 20, 2021 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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