Davis Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 4 hours ago, Brodie said: Basil is a believer that there doesnt need to be a whip! He is one of the very few in harness racing that doesnt think there should be whips! Oz hasnt banished wips quite the opposite, they are even more aggressive and vigorous than NZ! Basil clearly doesnt eat meat as he feels for all animals! I don't think whips are needed either mate. One of the Scandinavian countries, Norway I think, banned whips and trotting there is thriving. I would like to see a trial and have three or four months without whips and see how things work out. Animal rights are to the fore these days, but harness racing probably will be the last targeted because these days it is little more than a cottage industry and flies under the radar of the likes of SAFE etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Roman said: You also get fined for yelling "CHARGE!!!!!" as the mobile pulls away, as you blast the gate. So you cant yell at a horse either... So it's alright for a certain starter to bellow RIGHT!!! loud enough to scare the wildlife in the area including me. But a driver is not allowed to urge his mount at the start. Interesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Davis said: So it's alright for a certain starter to bellow RIGHT!!! loud enough to scare the wildlife in the area including me. But a driver is not allowed to urge his mount at the start. Interesting? It's usually VERY Quiet at the start , with drivers wanting to take position As Quickly As Possible, without OVERTAXING , OVER-EXERTING , or OVER EXCITING their steeds. not a lot of noise at all. At the other end of the race is a different Story. 'Bellowing bulls' springs to mind , in Oz anyway. At the gallops Damien Oliver sounds like a screaming BANshee .....lol He is VERY loud indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 6, 2021 Author Share Posted January 6, 2021 16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Racing Victoria (Thoroughbreds) promoted a series of races recently without consuling trainers and Jockey's. The backlash was so great that they had to backtrack and cancel the idea. And yet where they've tried it on a longer-term basis, there's apparently no problem: https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/a-whip-free-day-of-racing-in-norway/ 14 hours ago, Unhinged said: They did make it pretty clear for the first month it would be a big learning curve for the stipes and drivers and there were plenty of warnings. I would be very interested in your report for the next couple of months and maybe put in total drives. Good work Basil. They did indeed, which I think is fair enough. The worrying thing is that for many drivers on the above list, the transgression rate (and non-penalties) has increased in Nov/Dec. For example, 7 of K Newman's 9 violations occurred during that time, as did 5 of K Butt's 6, 5 of S Ottley's 7, 7 of R Holmes' 10, and so on. Perhaps the New Year will see the stewards grow a pair and start enforcing the rules. In any event, I'll do as you suggest and report back in a couple of months. Just as interesting is the names that aren't on the list — no B Orange, no T Williams, no M Purdon and no N Rasmussen (although, ironically, she was one of the three to cop a suspension on Show Day). The cream rising to the top again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Basil, maybe the stewards will grow a pair and admit that there was nothing wrong with the original rule? Where is your paraphernalia that says that SAFE were concerned about the harness whip use? Still waiting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Basil said: And yet where they've tried it on a longer-term basis, there's apparently no problem: https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/a-whip-free-day-of-racing-in-norway/ They did indeed, which I think is fair enough. The worrying thing is that for many drivers on the above list, the transgression rate (and non-penalties) has increased in Nov/Dec. For example, 7 of K Newman's 9 violations occurred during that time, as did 5 of K Butt's 6, 5 of S Ottley's 7, 7 of R Holmes' 10, and so on. Perhaps the New Year will see the stewards grow a pair and start enforcing the rules. In any event, I'll do as you suggest and report back in a couple of months. Just as interesting is the names that aren't on the list — no B Orange, no T Williams, no M Purdon and no N Rasmussen (although, ironically, she was one of the three to cop a suspension on Show Day). The cream rising to the top again... Good Work Basil Indeed......hahaha You're not becoming UNHINGED on this topic are you ??? either A / the stewards aren't 'doing the job' to your satisfaction B/ Heaps of drivers don't drive as well as you like with the whip rules (and have learning difficulties) C/ Whip work is your favourite subject (and I can see from your 'research' and the posts here is a BUGBEAR topic.) D/ All of the above. D is the answer !!! Gammalite says If you ban whips, deafeners, yelling, (anything that makes the horse Go Forward when you want it to,) the races will not be viable. i.e NO PUNTER will back anything that doesn't at least' look like' they are trying to Win . These Drivers are amazing mate and doing the very Best they can ? (for a living and your entertainment) they don't deserve your criticism . (sorry,.... but GAMMALITE is Always on the Drivers side hehe) I agree that the stewards are STUFFING UP with the penalties.....lol . Fancy suspending and fining Sam O and Tim Williams (2 of your very best) in that Dec 11 th Group 1 race. What a lot of BOLLOCKS !!!!! lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, Brodie said: Basil, maybe the stewards will grow a pair and admit that there was nothing wrong with the original rule? Where is your paraphernalia that says that SAFE were concerned about the harness whip use? Still waiting! I am against the whip but I don't think SAFE will target harness racing because the sport has a low profile and following. It is more likely they will target gallops. Greyhounds for other reasons. But if whips are banned in gallops, harness would have to follow suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 5/01/2021 at 5:50 PM, Brodie said: Brodster, has no problem with the original rule and SAFE has no problem with it either. The Dickheads that a agrere protesting about a few greyhounds being put down and Rodeo’s need to pull their heads in! They would be better spending their time protesting about human issues!! were do SAFE say they have no problem with this? i was curious and tried finding were they condone this but cant fnd this anywere. were did you see or find that? i do however agree with your sentiments on whip use. whips nowadays are so heavily padded. i am more involved with thoroughbreds however the use of a whip, ofcourse not to bash the horse, but for safety and education is paramount. however many horses are different. i have raced horses were i have told the jockey not to be overzealous whith the whip, some horses you can get the best out of by being kind. and ofcourse we have had others that try and cheat their way out of a race and need a reminder and ofcourse respond. different strokes.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Davis said: I am against the whip but I don't think SAFE will target harness racing because the sport has a low profile and following. It is more likely they will target gallops. Greyhounds for other reasons. But if whips are banned in gallops, harness would have to follow suit. We are all still waiting for Basil to produce something from SAFE saying that they were concerned with the harness whip use on horses!! Basil wont produce it because there isnt anything Basil, is there?? Yes, if the harness whip is banned then most of the serious punters will give it away big time! As I keep saying, SAFE is an organisation that should be mlre concerned with their fellow human beings rather than animals! Greyhounds for a start wont get to live at all, as they wont be bred if there was no racing for them! Basil are you a SAFE supporter?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MarkyMark said: were do SAFE say they have no problem with this? i was curious and tried finding were they condone this but cant fnd this anywere. were did you see or find that? i do however agree with your sentiments on whip use. whips nowadays are so heavily padded. i am more involved with thoroughbreds however the use of a whip, ofcourse not to bash the horse, but for safety and education is paramount. however many horses are different. i have raced horses were i have told the jockey not to be overzealous whith the whip, some horses you can get the best out of by being kind. and ofcourse we have had others that try and cheat their way out of a race and need a reminder and ofcourse respond. different strokes.... MarkyMark, when the stupid policy re the 10 hits came in, they interviewed someone from SAFE that said that anything to protect animal welfare was good!!! That same person said that they had no issues with the harness whip as it was not on their agenda!!!!!! They had other agendas they were working on like, chickens and pigs etc! But yes, Rennell panicked and thought they would bring in this blatantly dumb rule without any consensus from the people that it affected!!!!! Why bring anything to SAFE’s attention as if it was a major issue?? I can tell you now, NZ has a helluva lot bigger issues than pandering to SAFE or like! Edited January 7, 2021 by Brodie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Basil said: And yet where they've tried it on a longer-term basis, there's apparently no problem: https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/a-whip-free-day-of-racing-in-norway/ They did indeed, which I think is fair enough. The worrying thing is that for many drivers on the above list, the transgression rate (and non-penalties) has increased in Nov/Dec. For example, 7 of K Newman's 9 violations occurred during that time, as did 5 of K Butt's 6, 5 of S Ottley's 7, 7 of R Holmes' 10, and so on. Perhaps the New Year will see the stewards grow a pair and start enforcing the rules. In any event, I'll do as you suggest and report back in a couple of months. Just as interesting is the names that aren't on the list — no B Orange, no T Williams, no M Purdon and no N Rasmussen (although, ironically, she was one of the three to cop a suspension on Show Day). The cream rising to the top again... stick to your day job of hugging trees basil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 19 hours ago, Brodie said: We are all still waiting for Basil to produce something from SAFE saying that they were concerned with the harness whip use on horses!! Basil wont produce it because there isnt anything Basil, is there?? Following an earlier series of Brodie porkies on this matter, I wrote to SAFE a couple of years ago and posted their response on this forum. For the benefit of those who, like Brodie, have memory difficulties, here's the relevant bit of it again: 'Hi SAFE A quick (hopefully) question. A couple of claims have recently been made on a racing forum about SAFE’s attitude towards the use of the whip in harness racing: “S.A.F.E. We’re not even damn interested in the harness whip, they said have said that!” “A lady from SAFE stated that the harness whip was not on S.A.F.Es agenda!” Could you please confirm or deny the truth of these statements. Thanks and cheers, Basil to which they replied Hi Basil Thank you for getting in touch with your query about racing. SAFE is opposed to the use of whips in horse racing, including harness racing...It’s unacceptable to allow the use of this painful practice for the purposes of ‘entertainment’. Please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions. Kind regards, Paris Waterworth Supporter Engagement Assistant Wellington Volunteer Coordinator PO Box 28110 Kelburn Wellington 6150 04 472 9311 | safe.org.nz' In a prescient observation, I noted that Brodie would undoubtedly "continue to deny" SAFE's position — which he has! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 7, 2021 Author Share Posted January 7, 2021 22 hours ago, Gammalite said: Good Work Basil Indeed......hahaha You're not becoming UNHINGED on this topic are you ??? either A / the stewards aren't 'doing the job' to your satisfaction B/ Heaps of drivers don't drive as well as you like with the whip rules (and have learning difficulties) C/ Whip work is your favourite subject (and I can see from your 'research' and the posts here is a BUGBEAR topic.) D/ All of the above. D is the answer !!! Gammalite says If you ban whips, deafeners, yelling, (anything that makes the horse Go Forward when you want it to,) the races will not be viable. i.e NO PUNTER will back anything that doesn't at least' look like' they are trying to Win . Gammalite obviously didn't read this... https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/a-whip-free-day-of-racing-in-norway/ Call me pedantic, but I always prefer evidence to predictions. Anyway, you, Brodie and others are getting emotional and straying away from the fundamental point here. The facts are these: 1. On 1 October 2020, HRNZ introduced a new whip rule (which even horse bashers like Brodie approved of), citing a commitment to horse welfare. 2. In the subsequent 3 months, a minority of leading drivers have proven unable to get to grips with this rule. 3. The stewards have been remarkably lenient in enforcing this rule. Now it seems to me there's a big danger here. If you claim to be doing something for ethical reasons, and then don't follow through on the 'something', you risk ending up with major egg on your face. In this case, the much-maligned (on here) Martin Van Beynen has already written an article on the 'something': https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/123318974/harness-racing-drivers-protest-new-rule-depowering-the-whip It doesn't take much imagination to imagine the fun he could have with possession of the above 3 facts. Is that what anybody wants? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 25 minutes ago, Basil said: Gammalite obviously didn't read this... https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/a-whip-free-day-of-racing-in-norway/ Call me pedantic, but I always prefer evidence to predictions. Anyway, you, Brodie and others are getting emotional and straying away from the fundamental point here. The facts are these: 1. On 1 October 2020, HRNZ introduced a new whip rule (which even horse bashers like Brodie approved of), citing a commitment to horse welfare. 2. In the subsequent 3 months, a minority of leading drivers have proven unable to get to grips with this rule. 3. The stewards have been remarkably lenient in enforcing this rule. Now it seems to me there's a big danger here. If you claim to be doing something for ethical reasons, and then don't follow through on the 'something', you risk ending up with major egg on your face. In this case, the much-maligned (on here) Martin Van Beynen has already written an article on the 'something': https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/123318974/harness-racing-drivers-protest-new-rule-depowering-the-whip It doesn't take much imagination to imagine the fun he could have with possession of the above 3 facts. Is that what anybody wants? Thank you for the explanation. I have just finished looking up what SAFE is, the world does need Animal Rights Groups for sure. I guess what Brodie is saying (and myself) was that taking a hand off a rein in a race , is so 'Minor" in the great scheme of things. So PEDANTIC is indeed what I was thinking , so apologies for any offending comments. You are saying it is infringing the 'Rules' and should be sanctioned, hence your report of un-penalised Drivers. FAIR enough I spose. Stewards/stipes actions are ALWAYS debateable , Just look through the threads BOAY and you can see. !! hehehe The whip debate continues, AND you are correct , Manydrivers don't learn actually, I wrote somewhere about how many jocks and drivers 'retired' due to Whip rules changes. I finished a race with the reins in one hand 90% of the time, same as others in the 90's. Hard to change to some pansy rules they brought in and that ended careers. so a touchy subject with me sorry. Animal Activists have been helping Oz recently!!, The Big Abbotoir at Brisbane had people charged with animal creulty and horses are being 'Homed 'now after retirement from racing , rather than being 'Dogged" Horrid shit place in the world that abbotoir is. Animal Activists should take a look at the Grand National at Aintree, absolutely Jaw Dropping those videos, wow!! makes taking one hand off the rein so petty to me, (And Brodie, who says more important human issues to worry about he could tell you about) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Basil said: Following an earlier series of Brodie porkies on this matter, I wrote to SAFE a couple of years ago and posted their response on this forum. For the benefit of those who, like Brodie, have memory difficulties, here's the relevant bit of it again: 'Hi SAFE A quick (hopefully) question. A couple of claims have recently been made on a racing forum about SAFE’s attitude towards the use of the whip in harness racing: “S.A.F.E. We’re not even damn interested in the harness whip, they said have said that!” “A lady from SAFE stated that the harness whip was not on S.A.F.Es agenda!” Could you please confirm or deny the truth of these statements. Thanks and cheers, Basil to which they replied Hi Basil Thank you for getting in touch with your query about racing. SAFE is opposed to the use of whips in horse racing, including harness racing...It’s unacceptable to allow the use of this painful practice for the purposes of ‘entertainment’. Please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions. Kind regards, Paris Waterworth Supporter Engagement Assistant Wellington Volunteer Coordinator PO Box 28110 Kelburn Wellington 6150 04 472 9311 | safe.org.nz' In a prescient observation, I noted that Brodie would undoubtedly "continue to deny" SAFE's position — which he has! Basil, for FS!!!!! You wrote that to SAFE, and that was their response!!!!! You are a clown if you think they were going to write anything else, than that! They also dont like people standing on snails, or catching mice, or over feeding seagulls!!!! Show us the literature or paraphanalia that showed that SAFE had a problem with the harness whip!!!! You can not because there isnt any, is there BASIL, you are the porkie teller!!,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 8, 2021 Author Share Posted January 8, 2021 18 hours ago, Brodie said: Basil, for FS!!!!! You wrote that to SAFE, and that was their response!!!!! You are a clown if you think they were going to write anything else, than that! They also dont like people standing on snails, or catching mice, or over feeding seagulls!!!! Show us the literature or paraphanalia that showed that SAFE had a problem with the harness whip!!!! You can not because there isnt any, is there BASIL, you are the porkie teller!!,, This is exquisite, even by Brodie standards: BRODIE: SAFE isn't concerned about the use of the whip in harness racing. SAFE: SAFE is opposed to the use of the whip in harness racing. BRODIE: SAFE isn't concerned about the use of the whip in harness racing. It's like talking to the pie warmer... Anyway, since sensible discussion on this thread seems to have largely dried up, it seems like a good place to stop until such time as new numbers are available. Tune back in for the next edition of Basil_Facts, hopefully early in March. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 36 minutes ago, Basil said: This is exquisite, even by Brodie standards: BRODIE: SAFE isn't concerned about the use of the whip in harness racing. SAFE: SAFE is opposed to the use of the whip in harness racing. BRODIE: SAFE isn't concerned about the use of the whip in harness racing. It's like talking to the pie warmer... Anyway, since sensible discussion on this thread seems to have largely dried up, it seems like a good place to stop until such time as new numbers are available. Tune back in for the next edition of Basil_Facts, hopefully early in March. Basil you have not shown us a single thing in wring from SAFE that says that they have or had the harness whip on their agenda!!!!! You say you got someone saying that they didnt like it after you wrote to them!!! ! FFS, I reiterate a spokesperson for SAFE on TV stated that the Harness whip was not on their agenda they had other things on their agenda!!!! On their website where does it show the use of the harness whip to be concerning for them? I could put it on here that I wrote to them and they said that they lime the harness whip use! What you stated ks a nothing, Basil and you know that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 I think whoever formulated the present whip "guidelines" had arthritis in his elbows! Grab a stick, sit in a chair like you were in a sulky, then try to weild the whip without bending your arm. You can't get much purchase can you? Yes they allow the elbow to move through a few degrees - how do you know how many degrees you have gone through? Then imagine you are going over 40 kph in a tight finish in a race - at least there are a few stipes who have never driven in a race (or if they may have - never had this restrtiction when they did) who can accurately tell if a driver is or isn't abiding by the rules. For g...'s sake HRNZ it's time to arrange a meeting/workshop with the Drivers Association to formulate a rule that is both simple to apply and simple to administer. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarded driver Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Shree is one of the dumbest.what her drives last year she gives them none and she's dumb.doesny or carnt win a race 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 29 minutes ago, retarded driver said: Shree is one of the dumbest.what her drives last year she gives them none and she's dumb.doesny or carnt win a race She can probably spell better than some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retarded driver Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: She can probably spell better than some. Since when does spelling matter.does it make you have a less IQ no.does it make you money on the punt being a good speller.nice pot shot I like cause if you cannot take it don't dish it out.all the best Cheif no hate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 39 minutes ago, retarded driver said: Shree is one of the dumbest.what her drives last year she gives them none and she's dumb.doesny or carnt win a race fuck off noddy lol she winning races won the cup at mot the other day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 58 minutes ago, retarded driver said: Shree is one of the dumbest.what her drives last year she gives them none and she's dumb.doesny or carnt win a race I'm looking for Forbs, have you seen him anywhere? You both reside in Oz right?Maybe you have seen him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mardy Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 hour ago, retarded driver said: Shree is one of the dumbest.what her drives last year she gives them none and she's dumb.doesny or carnt win a race Oh god...there is a clueless Retard on the loose again.People if you see him...smack him in the face to knock some sense into him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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