Blood Doping?

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Have I missed something?

Another channel suggesting we are slandering.

[hesi]

 

Hi Scoob, sooner or later people involved with the whole thing are goin to get pissed at the rubbish these guys are spouting and they will be routed out and I would say slander & defamation will be the order of the day for the lot of em.......I would imagine they're bein watched as we speak, I just don't get why? jealousy is a very negative wasteful emotion no point to it, and it's not like the process is not available to all trainers out there right? so whats the point? just pissin n moanin, and they would probably do it even if there was nuthin to moan about oiy vey 

 

Cheers Iraklis

Couldn't help but think the writing style is reminiscent of someone near and dear to us all

 

Edited July 4, 2018 by hesi

[Flagship uberalles]

45 minutes ago, hesi said:

 

Hi Scoob, sooner or later people involved with the whole thing are goin to get pissed at the rubbish these guys are spouting and they will be routed out and I would say slander & defamation will be the order of the day for the lot of em.......I would imagine they're bein watched as we speak, I just don't get why? jealousy is a very negative wasteful emotion no point to it, and it's not like the process is not available to all trainers out there right? so whats the point? just pissin n moanin, and they would probably do it even if there was nuthin to moan about oiy vey 

 

Cheers Iraklis

Couldn't help but think the writing style is reminiscent of someone near and dear to us all

 

I see the village idiot still hasn't got the G fixed on his keyboard...... 

[Newmarket]

43 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

I see the village idiot still hasn't got the G fixed on his keyboard...... 

Yeah... well,,,, wooop wooop I never use that letter much.... too excited, mmmm did ya see that needle near that horse..., well.... it’s gonna run quick now.... what about rocks.... thought they were in my head...but no it’s racing on the track....who said the horse was dumb.....I’m getting excited again.....that’s just me, gotta go pee. Woo woo wooop 

Cheers Iraklis

[Newmarket]

1 hour ago, hesi said:

 

Hi Scoob, sooner or later people involved with the whole thing are goin to get pissed at the rubbish these guys are spouting and they will be routed out and I would say slander & defamation will be the order of the day for the lot of em.......I would imagine they're bein watched as we speak, I just don't get why? jealousy is a very negative wasteful emotion no point to it, and it's not like the process is not available to all trainers out there right? so whats the point? just pissin n moanin, and they would probably do it even if there was nuthin to moan about oiy vey 

 

Cheers Iraklis

Couldn't help but think the writing style is reminiscent of someone near and dear to us all

 

Just goes to show how different both sites are. This site people can debate having differing views, and the thread still up and open. So good, that everyone on other site spends more time over here, than starting topics themselves.

No surprise, this thread would have been shut down ages ago over there, softy pants scoobs would have done what he was told. 

[Blossom lady]

1 hour ago, hesi said:

 

Hi Scoob, sooner or later people involved with the whole thing are goin to get pissed at the rubbish these guys are spouting and they will be routed out and I would say slander & defamation will be the order of the day for the lot of em.......I would imagine they're bein watched as we speak, I just don't get why? jealousy is a very negative wasteful emotion no point to it, and it's not like the process is not available to all trainers out there right? so whats the point? just pissin n moanin, and they would probably do it even if there was nuthin to moan about oiy vey 

 

Cheers Iraklis

Couldn't help but think the writing style is reminiscent of someone near and dear to us all

 

Wouldn't worry about him. He's 6 cans short of a six pack. Lol

[hunterthepunter]

14 minutes ago, Blossom lady said:

Wouldn't worry about him. He's 6 cans short of a six pack. Lol

sandwhich  sort of a picnic lol

[Flagship uberalles]

7 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Yeah... well,,,, wooop wooop I never use that letter much.... too excited, mmmm did ya see that needle near that horse..., well.... it’s gonna run quick now.... what about rocks.... thought they were in my head...but no it’s racing on the track....who said the horse was dumb.....I’m getting excited again.....that’s just me, gotta go pee. Woo woo wooop 

Cheers Iraklis

I'm sayin nothin!!   

[Portfolio]

10 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Yeah... well,,,, wooop wooop I never use that letter much.... too excited, mmmm did ya see that needle near that horse..., well.... it’s gonna run quick now.... what about rocks.... thought they were in my head...but no it’s racing on the track....who said the horse was dumb.....I’m getting excited again.....that’s just me, gotta go pee. Woo woo wooop 

Cheers Iraklis

Hilarious. 

Not sure who Iraklis is, but you have summed him up pretty well. Luckily, he has   rc management on same level to have conversation with. 

[Happy Sunrise]

How long do the benefits of the treatment last for?

[Chief Stipe]

Regenerative Therapy Review: ACS for Horse Joints

February 1, 2018 By Kentucky Equine ResearchEven if an owner coddled a foal from birth, allowing him to work and play on only the best footing, chances are he will still develop osteoarthritis (OA) at some point in his life. This explains why OA, a progressive, painful degeneration of joints that often limits a horse’s ability to perform Osteoarthritis usually develops whenever abnormal stresses or abnormal joint anatomy occurs.

• Foals are sometimes born with abnormally shaped bones or joints, such as incomplete ossification or hardening of the small cuboidal bones in the knee or hock;
• Foals can develop angular limb deformities or other developmental orthopedic diseases such as osteochondritis dissecans (OCD);
• Horses may experience trauma to a joint not only during training or competing but also meandering in a pasture or cavorting with peers; and
• Normal wear and tear on the musculoskeletal system from a lifetime of exercise in an ageing horse.

“Although no cure has been identified, multiple research-based strategies exist to help minimize or delay the development and severity of OA,” explained Kathleen Crandell, Ph.D., a Kentucky Equine Research nutritionist. “Appropriate nutrition, including the use of oral joint health supplements prior to any trauma or wear and tear can help protect joints throughout a horse’s life.”

KER offers several joint supplements that could fit the bill, including:

• EO•3 contains marine-derived omega-3 fatty acids that possess inherent anti-inflammatory properties;
• Synovate HA features hyaluronic acid to help lubricate horse’s joints; and
• KER•Flex includes glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate (Glucos-A-Flex in Australia).

Medical options include administration of anti-inflammatory drugs and regenerative therapies, including stem cells and autologous conditioned serum (ACS), also known as IRAP or interleukin-1 receptor agonist protein therapy.

In a nutshell, ACS uses a small volume of blood collected from the patient to treat its own joint disease (the word autologous means self-derived). After letting the blood clot, the resulting serum, or liquid portion of blood, is mixed with special beads included in a commercial ACS kit. This incubation process stimulates the production of anti-inflammatory molecules, most importantly IRAP. This “conditioned” serum is then injected into the target joint of the horse to inhibit inflammation.

Studies support this technique, showing that horses with experimentally induced OA treated with IRAP had a significant improvement in lameness as well as microscopic evidence of healing joint tissues.

“Maintaining an appropriate body condition score throughout a horse’s life and keeping horses active also play important roles in supporting joint health,” Crandell reminded.

[Chief Stipe]

Medications Impact Autologous Treatment Options in Horses

January 10, 2018 By Kentucky Equine Research Staff

Veterinarians use regenerative therapies to manage certain musculoskeletal conditions in horses. These therapies, which include stem cells, autologous cultured serum (ACS), and platelet-rich plasma (PRP), employ the injured horse’s own cells to treat the condition. Collected samples can be stored for future use. What if your horse was either on medication or had an underlying condition at the time of sample collection? How does that affect future use of the sample?

Consider the following scenario:

Your horse has osteoarthritis (OA), a common yet painful and progressive degeneration of the lining of articular cartilage found at the end of long bones. Your veterinarian recommends a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) such as phenylbutazone (bute) or even an injectable product such as firocoxib. That same vet also recommends ACS. This involves collecting a sample of the horse’s blood and incubating it with specially designed beads to stimulate the production of anti-inflammatory molecules such as interleukin-1 receptor agonist proteins (IRAP). Those IRAP-rich samples can then be directly injected back into your horse’s affected joints, and some can also be saved for future use. Down the road, your horse is a little sore before competition and you know an NSAID cannot be administered, but ACS can. So your vet dives into her freezer to unearth the ACS. What if the sample contains a trace of the NSAID that your horse was on when the sample was collected? Will it result in a positive drug test?

“Various governing bodies, such as the United States Equestrian Foundation (USEF), the Association of Racing Commissioners International (ARCI), and the Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI), have strict rules and penalties regarding allowable levels and withdrawal times; therefore, this is a valid and important question,” emphasized Laura Petroski, B.V.M.S., veterinarian for Kentucky Equine Research (KER).

While both NSAIDs and ACS remain important tools in the management of OA, along with nutritional supplements, using ACS “spiked” with an NSAID could result in serious repercussions. One research group* conducted a study and experimentally created the above-described scenario. They treated horses with firocoxib, prepared ACS following treatment with that NSAID, and later injected the ACS into the horses’ joints. Blood samples were subsequently collected and analyzed like any blood sample would be for equine competitions.

“The researchers found the amount of firocoxib in the ACS sample did not appear to be large enough to result in detectable systemic concentrations of the medication,” shared Petroski.

Nonetheless, the researchers noted, “Although we have determined that intra-articular administration of ACS derived from horses following two oral doses of firocoxib at a 24-h interval does not affect plasma concentrations of firocoxib, we cannot extrapolate this evidence to horses with maximal plasma concentrations of firocoxib that occur with longer term use (≥10 days) or to other medications. Further evaluation of different medications is required and should be pursued. The information gained from this study is vital for protecting the horse and the associated equestrian team from therapeutic drug administration resulting in an inadvertent positive test.”

While considering various options for joint health and managing OA, don’t forget that experts also recommend supplements containing glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate, omega-3 fatty acids.

“Always choose quality joint supplements, such as KER•Flex, Synovate HA, and EO•3 to support joint health,” Petroski advised.

In Australia, look for Glucos-A-Flex as well.

*Ortved, K.F., M.B. Goodale, C. Ober, et al. 2017. Plasma firocoxib concentrations after intra-articular injection of autologous conditioned serum prepared from firocoxib positive horses. Veterinary Journal. 230:20-23.

[Chief Stipe]

Equine Intra-Articular Osteoarthritis Treatment Options

Pharmacological osteoarthritis therapy focuses on preventing or reducing pain and improving joint function.

By World Equine Veterinary Association    |    Oct 7, 2017    |    Anatomy & Physiology, Arthritis & Degenerative Joint Disease, Article, Horse Care, Injuries & Lameness, Muscle and Joint Problems, Musculoskeletal System, Older Horse Care Concerns, Sports Medicine, Vet and Professional, Vet Convention Reports, World Equine Veterinary Association

     

High-dose tiludronate resulted in only transient and mild changes in a few joint and cartilage health parameters. 

Photo: Alexandra Beckstett

By Raquel Baccarin, DVM, PhD, WEVA Regional Ambassador for Brazil and South America

---

Epidemiologic data collected from more than 100,000 horses revealed that articular lesions are the most frequent reason owners seek veterinary care for their animals (Pennell et al., 2005). Among equine joint diseases with the greatest impact and clinical relevance in orthopedics, osteoarthritis (OA) remains the most devastating. The condition is often associated with poor performance, early retirement, and a significant financial burden for owners of affected animals.

In humans, OA is classically defined as an age-related joint disease that is one of the main causes of pain and dysfunction in elderly individuals. However, in horses, the condition also affects young animals, indicating that age is not an essential factor for OA development in equids.

Equine OA is a painful and debilitating disease that can develop rapidly (when secondary to trauma) or slowly (months to years), depending on the etiology (cause). It is common in all types of horses; however, it tends to affect joints with a larger and smaller range of movement in sport horses and leisure horses, respectively.

In recent years, researchers have described equine OA not as a single disease, but as the final stage of destruction of the articular cartilage, with early stages being triggered and perpetuated by many random factors. However, the exact sequence of events leading to OA development remains unclear, and the temporal relationship between subchondral bone (located just under the cartilage surface within a joint) damage, chronic synovial membrane (the joint capsule’s inner lining, which secretes lubricating synovial fluid) inflammation, and cartilage damage remains unknown.

Pharmacological OA therapy focuses on preventing or reducing pain and improving joint function. Veterinarians have administered intra-articular (in the joint) injections of the corticosteroid triamcinolone acetonide (TA), with or without hyaluronic acid (HA), for decades. Triamcinolone provides better pain relief and functionality in the short- and medium-term, but corticosteroid alternatives are needed for horses with chronic OA.

Many studies have shown that administering at least three intra-articular HA injections results in significant improvement in joint pain and function that begins immediately after treatment and lasts for a medium- or long-term period. However, there is no evidence confirming HA injections improve structural damage to articular cartilage.

Chondroitin sulfate (CS) and glucosamine are therapeutic alternatives for OA treatment. Researchers have found evidence suggesting that CS and glucosamine could preserve or even repair damaged articular cartilage. Dietary supplements containing CS are available, as well as intra-articular formulations for managing OA clinical signs in horses. When testing CS in horses, researchers’ initial hypothesis was that it would provide the cartilage with the necessary building blocks to synthesize the extracellular matrix proteoglycans; however, study results were inconsistent and conflicting. Chondroitin sulfate penetration into chondrocytes (cells that make up articular cartilage) was very limited, indicating that CS’s primary effect on chondrocytes is mediated by cell-surface receptors through which it exerts anti-inflammatory effects.

Another therapeutic alternative for OA is polyacrylamide hydrogel (PAAG), which studies showed alleviates lameness and joint effusion in osteoarthritic horse joints. Additional studies are needed to elucidate PAAG’s mechanism of action in improving OA clinical signs.

Blood-derived products such as platelet-rich plasma (PRP), autologous conditioned serum (ACS), autologous processed plasma, and autologous blood can also be administered via intra-articular injection. Most equine clinical studies have shown that PRP has positive effects when used to treat joint injuries; however, these studies have a high risk of bias and PRP products vary greatly in composition, making it difficult to compare their efficacies. Frequently, veterinarians recommend two or three PRP treatments with intervals varying from two to three weeks. Following PRP treatment veterinarians have reported lameness improvement and reduced joint effusion (swelling). Researchers are also working to develop a more effective PRP product by combining it with other molecules such as chitosan and gelatin, and HA used in combination with PRP has shown promise as a future treatment.

Veterinarians commonly use ACS in athletic horses when corticosteroid use no longer shows beneficial effects, mainly in chronic OA cases. Lameness generally improves after the second administration, with resolution occurring after the third or fourth. The effects of ACS treatment typically last three months to a year in joints that are not responsive to other intra-articular therapies. A considerable amount of data suggests that ACS use has beneficial effects, but the findings of experimental and clinical trials are inconsistent.

Several studies have shown that intra-articular mesenchymal stem cell (MSC) injection helps reduce synovial inflammation and results in better cartilage repair from a structural point of view, when compared to other currently available therapies and surgical techniques. In horses, MSC sources include bone marrow, adipose tissue, umbilical cord, umbilical cord blood, amniotic membrane, and peripheral blood. Moreover, researchers have recently shown synovial fluid and membrane to be viable sources of MSCs. The quantity of cells obtained, the capacity for and efficiency of differentiation, the ease of collection, and low risk of complications during collection are important issues to consider when selecting an MSC source. Currently, MSCs derived from bone marrow and adipose tissue are most commonly used in therapeutic approaches.

Veterinarians can use a variety of intra-articular therapies to minimize joint damage, but it is important to identify the most effective treatments for specific equine OA cases. Furthermore, most of the therapies used to treat OA treatment have short-term effects on pain and function, and few have been tested for or exhibit long-term benefits.

Veterinarians should constantly strive to gain more experience in using such therapies, alone or in combination, to provide optimal treatment to horses recovering from joint injuries.

[Chief Stipe]

Reading many articles online about ACS (yes thanks Google) I can't find any that suggest regular treatment during racing.  It is primarily recommended for rehabilitation of horses with chronic injuries that have not responded to other anti-inflammatory treatments.

Is it a preventative treatment?  Some interesting ethical questions arise from that approach.

[Flagship uberalles]

24 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Reading many articles online about ACS (yes thanks Google) I can't find any that suggest regular treatment during racing.  It is primarily recommended for rehabilitation of horses with chronic injuries that have not responded to other anti-inflammatory treatments.

Is it a preventative treatment?  Some interesting ethical questions arise from that approach.

Thanks chief, seems as if it is used now as a preventative treatment on some animals...which as you say does bring up ethical issues...

[Brodie]

16 hours ago, hesi said:

 

Hi Scoob, sooner or later people involved with the whole thing are goin to get pissed at the rubbish these guys are spouting and they will be routed out and I would say slander & defamation will be the order of the day for the lot of em.......I would imagine they're bein watched as we speak, I just don't get why? jealousy is a very negative wasteful emotion no point to it, and it's not like the process is not available to all trainers out there right? so whats the point? just pissin n moanin, and they would probably do it even if there was nuthin to moan about oiy vey 

 

Cheers Iraklis

Couldn't help but think the writing style is reminiscent of someone near and dear to us all

 

Sorry, Hesi, wouldn’t say dear to any of us!

The childish digs at a few gets extremely tedious and not sure of his shoe size, but it would be pretty close to his maturity age!

Wish they would just just suck it up and stop commenting about posters that have gone to this better forum.

I agree, there is similar commenting styles which tends to suggest that the other has been site has not got the no. Of posters that they think it still has!

Onwards and upwards for Bit Of A Yarn!

[Flagship uberalles]

Funny,  just looked at shitcafe and I see normal service resumed, "the dice man" has been posing a few questions in the blood topic that mirrors this one, and because he is NOT a sheep a major arse licker, or a certified vegetable, good old Scooby has stepped in and more or less labeled him a trouble maker and shit stirrer.........its time for your medicine iraklis..open wide here comes the train.. choo choo

[hunterthepunter]

actovegin very interesting wonder if it is used for blood doping in horses

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, hunterthepunter said:

actovegin very interesting wonder if it is used for blood doping in horses

Are you saying it is used in NZ?  It was part of the cocktail that Lance Armstrong used however the clinical evidence that it does anything is spurious.

[Chief Stipe]

One thing to consider about ACS is it supposed to be a localised injection into the lesion of the inflamed joint or tendon.  The recommended dose is relatively small so it's ability to increase performance is very doubtful.  However if it does as advertised then the inflammation of the damaged joint will be reduced and the horse will probably experience less pain.  Therefore it will perform better.

 

[hunterthepunter]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are you saying it is used in NZ?  It was part of the cocktail that Lance Armstrong used however the clinical evidence that it does anything is spurious.

not saying its used in nz but is a type of blood spinning and is from calves

[curious]

On 5/07/2018 at 10:57 AM, Chief Stipe said:

Reading many articles online about ACS (yes thanks Google) I can't find any that suggest regular treatment during racing.  It is primarily recommended for rehabilitation of horses with chronic injuries that have not responded to other anti-inflammatory treatments.

Is it a preventative treatment?  Some interesting ethical questions arise from that approach.

Just discovered this thread. What a load of rubbish in some posts and a long established therapeutic treatment, especially for joints and tendons. I think it is also used for acute injuries and early treatment of osteoarthritis because it slows the development of arthritis in joints for example. As you point out in another post CS, one treated blood collection can provide about 50 treatments, so it's not horrendously expensive either. Even if a horse is being treated with other NSAIDs for arthritis, having ACS available means that treatment can replace those right up to raceday and after the required withdrawal time for those other anti-inflammatories. That's why it would be used during racing.

For the idiots who can't read, it is about as far from blood doping as taking an aspirin for a headache. There are no RBCs re-injected and the injections are into the affected joint or tendon (or other tissue), not the blood.

It is true there may be additives, but these are not drugs as someone suggested, and have zero steroidal type effects.

Never heard of it being used as a preventative unless you mean preventative in the sense of preventing or slowing the development of osteoarthritis, for example.

Load of crap and mountain out of molehill stuff.

[curious]

32 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

not saying its used in nz but is a type of blood spinning and is from calves

The only spinning in actovegin is yours. It is extracted from calf blood by ultra-filtration. No spinning involved except as I said, yours.

[Brodie]

On 5/07/2018 at 10:22 AM, Happy Sunrise said:

How long do the benefits of the treatment last for?

What the treatment that Iraklis needs?

[Newmarket]

1 hour ago, curious said:

Just discovered this thread. What a load of rubbish in some posts and a long established therapeutic treatment, especially for joints and tendons. I think it is also used for acute injuries and early treatment of osteoarthritis because it slows the development of arthritis in joints for example. As you point out in another post CS, one treated blood collection can provide about 50 treatments, so it's not horrendously expensive either. Even if a horse is being treated with other NSAIDs for arthritis, having ACS available means that treatment can replace those right up to raceday and after the required withdrawal time for those other anti-inflammatories. That's why it would be used during racing.

For the idiots who can't read, it is about as far from blood doping as taking an aspirin for a headache. There are no RBCs re-injected and the injections are into the affected joint or tendon (or other tissue), not the blood.

It is true there may be additives, but these are not drugs as someone suggested, and have zero steroidal type effects.

Never heard of it being used as a preventative unless you mean preventative in the sense of preventing or slowing the development of osteoarthritis, for example.

Load of crap and mountain out of molehill stuff.

So 50 treatments for just under a grand, yes your right, not too expensive. 

If it’s that good, you would think every trainer in NZ would be trying it. Why aren’t they?