Maybe they should have put the AWT at Matamata: Race Meeting 10-02-20 Abandoned after Race 3

[Chief Stipe]

Mmmm  Matamata abandoned after race 3 after horse slips at 700m.

Track inspection shows 100m "slippery patch".

Are any tracks in the Waikato up to scratch?

[Joe Bloggs]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

Mmmm  Matamata abandoned after race 3 after horse slips at 700m.

Track inspection shows 100m "slippery patch".

Are any tracks in the Waikato up to scratch?

What happened to a pre-racing inspection? doesn't matter what the peno says, that slippery section had to have been there before racing began, surely...what if some arsehole had of dug a trench? an activist, god forbid, before every Raceday there should be an inspection of the racing surface, every track, everywhere...for man and beast sake...we do it before track work everyday nowadays, I bowled a sheep over galloping one morning at Hawera, from that day on, the track manager drove around checking the fence etc....they do it everyday at Flemington and The Goldie, so I suppose and hope it's done not only before track work, but before the first.

[Chief Stipe]

I think the usual problem occurred.  A dry period followed by light rain/drizzle on the day.

I doubt an inspection would have found the issue if the drizzle occurred during the first three races.  One other consideration is that one horse slipped - in the past that wouldn't have abandoned a meeting.  Rightly or wrongly there is zero tolerance nowadays.

[Reefton]

 

Surely not!

According to NZTR they plastered water all over the track in the days leading up to the races

Don't tell me that the watering was inconsistent therefore creating some patches that were wetter than others??

Or is the soil structure stuffed?

Oh woe is me - I don't know what to think

[Freda]

Years of under investment in infrastructure, what can be expected?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

 

Surely not!

According to NZTR they plastered water all over the track in the days leading up to the races

Don't tell me that the watering was inconsistent therefore creating some patches that were wetter than others??

Or is the soil structure stuffed?

Oh woe is me - I don't know what to think

Reefton I realise you are pissed off because your investment with Pitty is subject to the vagaries of the Riccarton Turf track but....

It is the same issue.  Yes there has been no investment in our turf tracks and at the end of the day it comes down to the soil structure.  As I said in our private conversation - Caulfield were able to put 6mm of rain on the track last Saturday on raceday morning and present a good track for everyone.  Except Sir Dragonet!

As I've said to you the only way to keep our stuffed tracks within range is to mechanically rip them and then keep the moisture level up so that you can fine tune with irrigation.  Otherwise the track gets away on you and irrigating during hot days at the last moment does nothing.  The grass looks green but it only takes a little bit of drizzle to make the track in some parts a skating rink (in my opinion H&S stops meetings that in the past would have continued).  Now the reason that some parts don't absorb the water at the same rate is because the SOIL STRUCTURE is stuffed.

Your only solution is to NOT IRRIGATE!  But that wouldn't have helped on Saturday because there was light drizzle on the day.  Same result I'm afraid.

[Joe Bloggs]

Doesn't Royalty inhabit Matamata?  How could such an incident eventuate in the presence of Royalty? 

On second thoughts, the famous or infamous troughs debacle took place nearby so anythings possible. 

Can anyone tell me though, your thoughts not withstanding Chief, is there pre racing track inspections over there? the entire track I mean, not just walking distance from the stewards/jockeys room...what if some bastard dropped a concrete slab near the fence in the back straight or deliberately laid spikes across the track? 95% chance it would never happen, but surely it's the right thing to do?

[Chief Stipe]

28 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Doesn't Royalty inhabit Matamata?  How could such an incident eventuate in the presence of Royalty? 

On second thoughts, the famous or infamous troughs debacle took place nearby so anythings possible. 

Can anyone tell me though, your thoughts not withstanding Chief, is there pre racing track inspections over there? the entire track I mean, not just walking distance from the stewards/jockeys room...what if some bastard dropped a concrete slab near the fence in the back straight or deliberately laid spikes across the track? 95% chance it would never happen, but surely it's the right thing to do?

I'm not sure.  Our Stipes don't seem to do much.

Very few of our Trainers or Jockeys bother to walk the track in the morning of a race meeting.  Who is the Top Aussie Jockey that always walks the track with an umbrella?

I won't bore you with yet another of my horse racing stories.  But I always walked the track when I could and of all the tracks I walked Ellerslie and Te Rapa were the worst.  

[Joe Bloggs]

Craig Williams and Kerrin McEvoy love their brolly's....many of the Syd jocks walk the straight, Kathy O'Hara I've seen, not so much up in QLD...I read a story whereby an activist organisation flew a drone over the track and dropped 6'' nails!!! then advised the stewards, the races were abandoned, however, what happens the day they do that and don't call the track/press? horrific thought? absolutely, plausible? you betcha...should be mandatory track inspections, saves lives and law suits.

[Chief Stipe]

Ah JJ Flash - are you no longer capable of posting?  I guess that happens when you frequent an echo chamber.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Reefton I realise you are pissed off because your investment with Pitty is subject to the vagaries of the Riccarton Turf track but..

It is the same issue.  Yes there has been no investment in our turf tracks and at the end of the day it comes down to the soil structure.  As I said in our private conversation - Caulfield were able to put 6mm of rain on the track last Saturday on raceday morning and present a good track for everyone.  Except Sir Dragonet!

As I've said to you the only way to keep our stuffed tracks within range is to mechanically rip them and then keep the moisture level up so that you can fine tune with irrigation.  Otherwise the track gets away on you and irrigating during hot days at the last moment does nothing.  The grass looks green but it only takes a little bit of drizzle to make the track in some parts a skating rink (in my opinion H&S stops meetings that in the past would have continued).  Now the reason that some parts don't absorb the water at the same rate is because the SOIL STRUCTURE is stuffed.

Your only solution is to NOT IRRIGATE!  But that wouldn't have helped on Saturday because there was light drizzle on the day.  Same result I'm afraid.

My 'investment with Pitty' is a pittance but I am sick of being told that horses were in the worst of the ground and accordingly never had a hope.

And I am not particularly anti irrigation - I am anti inconsistent irrigation too close to raceday which clearly happened at Matamata if only one part of the track was affected and has been consistently happening at Riccarton for the last few meetings.

This issue does not occur when it rains in Christchurch save for the old issue of them all wanting to be on the outside where the vehicles travel and which got very little irrigation at all.  If Matamata had been irrigated consistently then all things being equal the entire track should have been in this dangerous state.

Or did it just rain on one portion of the Matamata track?

If they don't want to be careful when they irrigate to make sure it is consistent across the entire track don't do it

And not irrigating across the entire track at Riccarton now leads to the situation where trainers don't want to gallop horses on the rock hard outside of the course proper - there apparently being no other real option with the AWT being laid - and getting abused by track staff for complaining.  The Riccarton 'soil structure' might be stuffed but that is the result of 'experts' in soil structure who laid it in the first place.  And a combination of it being stuffed and clearly being inconsistently irrigated(whether down to the wind or to irrigation gear that doesn't work properly) makes for a lottery especially when the fields are big.  In the two year old race there two weeks ago they all came down the centre - hardly a great look on one of NZ's premier tracks.

The CJC has form in the area of not having consistent tracks - do I have to mention Rangiora?

 

 

 

[Mark D]

Yes for years the Waikato has been held up as the example for the rest of the country.  But the fact is they are no better and maybe worse than everyone else.  Millions of the industry money has been wasted at Matamata over the years so they decide to put an AWT at Cambridge so money can be pissed up against the wall there as well - just so none of the big breeders miss out.

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, Mark D said:

Yes for years the Waikato has been held up as the example for the rest of the country.  But the fact is they are no better and maybe worse than everyone else.  Millions of the industry money has been wasted at Matamata over the years so they decide to put an AWT at Cambridge so money can be pissed up against the wall there as well - just so none of the big breeders miss out.

All that aside they are still dominating NZ racing.

[All The Aces]

So whats wrong with the track at Cambridge?

please note there will be no trials at Cambridge on 23 February.  

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

So whats wrong with the track at Cambridge?

please note there will be no trials at Cambridge on 23 February.  

Not enough sand.

[Freda]

In conversation with a Cambridge trainer - it seems that the condition of the AWT surface has improved markedly following recent rain.   

Bodes well for the wet winter/early spring conditions in the Cambridge region .

But - this surface is NOT supposed to need irrigation.  Someone get it wrong again?

[Freda]

13 hours ago, Reefton said:

My 'investment with Pitty' is a pittance but I am sick of being told that horses were in the worst of the ground and accordingly never had a hope.

And I am not particularly anti irrigation - I am anti inconsistent irrigation too close to raceday which clearly happened at Matamata if only one part of the track was affected and has been consistently happening at Riccarton for the last few years.

If they don't want to be careful when they irrigate to make sure it is consistent across the entire track don't do it.

To be fair to the oft-maligned track manager, it would be very difficult indeed to get consistent application with the system currently in place - and also, factoring in strong winds which are part and parcel of the Canterbury  summer weather patterns.   Either a stinking north-easterly [ beloved of your good self ]  or a howling nor'wester.

13 hours ago, Reefton said:

And not irrigating across the entire track at Riccarton now leads to the situation where trainers don't want to gallop horses on the rock hard outside of the course proper - there apparently being no other real option with the AWT being laid - and getting abused by track staff for complaining. 

Thankfully, that situation has been ameliorated - for now.  The outside strip [ down the chute only ]  has presented beautiful going this week.    Other problems [ like the housing development across the fence starting machinery with flashing lights as you try to get onto the track itself ]  are not really CJC matters, although certainly making things difficult for some horses.

13 hours ago, Reefton said:

 

The Riccarton 'soil structure' might be stuffed but that is the result of 'experts' in soil structure who laid it in the first place.  And a combination of it being stuffed and clearly being inconsistently irrigated(whether down to the wind or to irrigation gear that doesn't work properly) makes for a lottery especially when the fields are big.  In the two year old race there two weeks ago they all came down the centre - hardly a great look on one of NZ's premier tracks.

The CJC has form in the area of not having consistent tracks - do I have to mention Rangiora?

Both a result of flawed reconstructions - and short cuts.

13 hours ago, Reefton said:

 

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

16 hours ago, Reefton said:

The Riccarton 'soil structure' might be stuffed but that is the result of 'experts' in soil structure who laid it in the first place.

FFS Reefton it was laid 23 years ago!  

I have no idea who consulted on or did the track renovation 23 years.  However after 23 years it needs to be done again which is on par with the Metrop tracks in OZ.  Actually compared to them it is well overdue.  Also I'm sure that the constraints under which they had to work limited the scope of doing a good job e.g. financial constraints and minimal downtime.

Take Flemington for example - in 2007 they spent A$12m on renovating the main track. This is what they did:

The turf was laid on 300mm of a specialist soil profile designed so that it would retain 9% moisture. "The soil came from Nyora in Gippsland (approximately three hours drive south west of Melbourne)," explained Mick. "We did a lot of testing during the reconstruction; we tested all the material in and out, twice, and if it didn't comply it was rejected. A third of the material was rejected and had to be reblended; so, it was costly but, in the long run, it will prove to be cheap."

Under the soil profile is 100mm of bluestone and below that a total of 25km of herring bone drainage. These feed into a collector drain that has a pumped storm water system attached. The previous system relied on gravity and the course was at the mercy of the river level to drain in the event of flooding. "All the drainage runs across the track at a 45 degree angle, so any rain falling from the outside of the track has got to cross four drains to reach the collector drain on the inside," Mick continued. "In the new track we have also designed in a fall of 1.5% in the home straight, 4.5 % on the first bend, 2% on back straight, and 2.5%/3.5%/2.5% transitional on the top turn, which also evens out the running for the horses, particularly on the bends."

Every 6 months they perform turf renovation timed after their Spring Carnival and Autumn Carnival.  There is 7 weeks between the last meeting of the Spring Carnival and the next meeting.  Now this is a track that can take 52mm on Melbourne Cup Day and still race.  

We mow the track down to 60mm, sweep up the grass, and then hollow tine core the track at 80 x 80mm spacings to a depth just below the thatch. We sweep up the cores and remove them, then top dress the track with the exact same sand that is in the track currently. We then verti-drain the entire track to a depth of 190mm, brush the sand into those holes, oversow the track with Perennial Ryegrass and Kentucky Bluegrass and then fertilise according to our soil reports. Finally we irrigate and let the track rest from there and recover.

[Reefton]

On 12/02/2021 at 8:23 AM, Chief Stipe said:

FFS Reefton it was laid 23 years ago!  

I have no idea who consulted on or did the track renovation 23 years.  However after 23 years it needs to be done again which is on par with the Metrop tracks in OZ.  Actually compared to them it is well overdue.  Also I'm sure that the constraints under which they had to work limited the scope of doing a good job e.g. financial constraints and minimal downtime.

 

Yes and we all know it was rooted from day one

For years the crossing in particular was throwing up clods

You have no idea who was consulted?  Well I bet it wasn't Canterbury farmers

The worst thing is it will have cost millions and the industry will have paid for it under the old amenities fund regime(like they paid for all the major NZ racetrack do ups and facilities)

Hard for NZTR to justify paying to fix it now they are just spending multi millions on a CJC AWT(even if neither the CJC or NZTR are paying for it)

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

You have no idea who was consulted?  Well I bet it wasn't Canterbury farmers

So you don't know either.  FFS it is a bloody turf racetrack not a paddock!

Easy for Reefton and their farmers when you had stuff all rsce meetings or horses trained on it for decades.

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

Hard for NZTR to justify paying to fix it now they are just spending multi millions on a CJC AWT(even if neither the CJC or NZTR are paying for it)

Something we agree on.  So nothing is going to change.  Suggest you send your horses to OZ.

[Tesio]

I’m not a fan of AWT racing, but the way the nz tracks are playing at the moment, at least the AWT may provide a more even playing field. Take Riccarton on Sat and Trentham the other week, its a joke our so called premier tracks are presented like that. No NW winds or excess rain at riccarton leading up to last Sat so why was the track so off on the inside? Sprinklers left on maybe??

[Chief Stipe]

52 minutes ago, Tesio said:

I’m not a fan of AWT racing, but the way the nz tracks are playing at the moment, at least the AWT may provide a more even playing field. Take Riccarton on Sat and Trentham the other week, its a joke our so called premier tracks are presented like that. 

The NZ tracks have been "playing" this way for years.  Doesn't matter what the Track Managers do they can't present good tracks because the tracks are fundamentally stuffed.

56 minutes ago, Tesio said:

No NW winds or excess rain at riccarton leading up to last Sat so why was the track so off on the inside? Sprinklers left on maybe??

Wrong.  They irrigated on Tuesday in anticipation of forecast rain the next day.  That's good practice as you can't guarantee how much rain you will get so you irrigate to make sure that any rain is absorbed into the soil rather sitting on the top.  They then got 19mm of rain on the Wednesday.

The track being "off on the inside" is nothing to do with irrigation or rain - the soil is stuffed and the turf is sub-optimal because of it.

[Gammalite]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The NZ tracks have been "playing" this way for years.  Doesn't matter what the Track Managers do they can't present good tracks because the tracks are fundamentally stuffed.

Wrong.  They irrigated on Tuesday in anticipation of forecast rain the next day.  That's good practice as you can't guarantee how much rain you will get so you irrigate to make sure that any rain is absorbed into the soil rather sitting on the top.  They then got 19mm of rain on the Wednesday.

The track being "off on the inside" is nothing to do with irrigation or rain - the soil is stuffed and the turf is sub-optimal because of it.

Sadly, I think you can add EAGLE FARM QLD to your NZ list of stuffed tracks too , Chief.

They've been trying to fix it , replace it,  dig it up , put it back down , everything since 2014. and still not right.. 

such a beautiful traditional racecourse too, and now some trainers won't race there...

[Chief Stipe]

35 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Sadly, I think you can add EAGLE FARM QLD to your NZ list of stuffed tracks too , Chief.

They've been trying to fix it , replace it,  dig it up , put it back down , everything since 2014. and still not right.. 

such a beautiful traditional racecourse too, and now some trainers won't race there...

They went for a cheap option first, then a cheap fix option, and then another cheap fix....... Would have been better to do it properly in the first place.