Gammalite Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 9 minutes ago, Brodie said: They pick up on it pretty quickly Gamma as $200 registers as a BIG BET!!! They freeze it and kill the div! That's painful then. If you an't get on why not use opponents then like Laddie's, Bet365, points Bet, there is quite a few going and some must mimic the tote odds to get their markets.? Kerr got on with them companies apparently , with the larger bets ? or are you connected to harness and the RIU will come calling lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: That's painful then. If you an't get on why not use opponents then like Laddie's, Bet365, points Bet, there is quite a few going and some must mimic the tote odds to get their markets.? Kerr got on with them companies apparently , with the larger bets ? or are you connected to harness and the RIU will come calling lol. Opened several accounts in Oz, Gamma. Centrebet, Sportsbet and Ladbrokes. Ladbrokes and Centrebet didnt take any harness bets from me after a couple of months, so I brought money back. Sportsbet I have open but dont bother now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 24 minutes ago, Brodie said: Opened several accounts in Oz, Gamma. Centrebet, Sportsbet and Ladbrokes. Ladbrokes and Centrebet didnt take any harness bets from me after a couple of months, so I brought money back. Sportsbet I have open but dont bother now that's tough. at least you gave it a go. maybe a child of yours could open one and then you use it? But go slightly smaller so you don't get them barred with too much winnings hehehe? I would use my son's if that happened to me with the banning certain bets. Actually Ladbrokes banned him from entering any promotions any more at all, because he won one of them. A day prize of $1000 for getting best total with a pick every race with $10ew at Flemington $20ew on captain . His captain won at $15 so he jagged the win over the nation. can't enter anything promotional now, just won't take his entry if he tries on-line. Shame on them ! being worth millions and pick on a promotion winner. wonder if Mitch Kerr has any tips how to get the bets on hehehe.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gospel of Judas Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 Remember people with big data, data mining and tracking software. Can see many things and look into movements of bets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 20 hours ago, AndrewFitzgerald said: Tickets to our Boys Get Paid Area at the Jewels launching this week Karrots. Get your mates a ticket with us and we'll show him a good time in with the lads - Will send you ticket link when available from Cambridge mr fitz to win race one Sunday? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 On 4/20/2021 at 4:52 PM, AndrewFitzgerald said: Tickets to our Boys Get Paid Area at the Jewels launching this week Karrots. Get your mates a ticket with us and we'll show him a good time in with the lads - Will send you ticket link when available from Cambridge OMG yes please, that would be cool. If you PM me link and then I can send to my mate once I have it. Actually an employee of his, is a bit of a punter apparently. So maybe he could go along with him. But if you only have 1 space he is tots fine for him to just go alone and meet you etc, he's quite social. Ill text my mate now to let him know 😄 Thank you! 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 On 20/04/2021 at 9:29 AM, hunterthepunter said: karrots are you going to the jewels with p4p? is p4p allowed on a racecourse before the 30th of july? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 minute ago, Rangatira said: is p4p allowed on a racecourse before the 30th of july? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZRacing Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Quote My point is you are right to say lessons can be learnt, but to deflect blame onto the TAB,when Kerr himself provided no evidence of it to the JCA,seems unreasonable. Why the NZ tab anyway,what about the Australian agencies. The NZ TAB and any other NZ operated gambling organisation has stringent procedures to follow with regard to prevention of problem gambling,even more so when they are a Crown Entity with a NZ monopoly presence. Kerr became a Junior Driver in 2009 18 year old and that is the year he opened a NZ TAB betting account. In December 2014 Kerr was fined $650 for taking a 4 bet multi to return $6,221 which included a horse he was driving. Kerr stated he was unaware of the rule change in April of that year which barred drivers from betting on his race drive or any other race runner. Kerr had an obligation to familarise himself with that new rule or any others that impacted on his driver and training licensing. Broke the rule through his own negligence and owned up to it. The following statement from the JCA makes one wonder when they make a statement like the one below in justifying a decision on a the above rule breach do they gather their words of wisdom from people in the industry eg owners,trainers & punters or do they gather it at their weekly knitting club meetings. They have to stitching us up quoting this: Quote Breaches of this nature can create a perception that goes to the heart and integrity of racing. Serious racing offence provisions are in place to protect this integrity and are paramount for public confidence in racing and the administration of racing. If a driver could only bet on his runner in a race there won't be any concerns from owners,trainers or more importantly punters if the driver has his hard earned on himself to win. Public confidence and integrity won't be harmed. If a Trackside presenter said to a driver in the race preview lead up comments "how confident are you that you can win the race" and he turned around and said "I have $500 to say I will". Any punter watching will be adding him into any exotic or other bet they are taking. Driver bet rubber stamps 100% public confidence on integrity on this runner. Also a great way to weed out the drivers who are poor race judges. Unbelievably if a trainer has a $1.50 favourite in a race and he thinks it can't win as either travelled badly, didn't eat up or worked like it is going to need an oxygen mask at the 100m and his mate has a $10 shot who tells him we will beat you tonight the $1.40 fav trainer if a punter will have something on his rival. Your rule change involves both trainers and drives from betting in the race. A NZ Thoroughbred trainer once came on Trackside and when asked about his runners chances played it down after it won the race crowed he cleaned up. Different code but same end result integrity and public confidence hit hard. The Betting Expert claims Kerr opened and closed NZ TAB accounts from 2009 - 2016. The above betting situation was in 2014 and the bet was placed in Kerr's NZ TAB account. He has actively been betting with the NZ TAB now for 5 years very strange and can't fathom why a person would do that. If the NZ TAB allowed Kerr to do this for whatever reason whats the reasoning behind the following quote? Quote 49. The Committee received expert evidence which may have relevance to each of the 4 charges as it relates to possible financial issues of the Respondent. It is evidence of B D Payn, an expert Betting Analyst employed by the RIU. The essence of his evidence was (a) Between 2009 and 2016 the Respondent had opened and closed a number of accounts with the New Zealand TAB Betting Expert ha the above comment is nothing short of embarrassing and piss poor in providing factual evidence to support his claims. The JCA Panel has shown neglect in responding to the claims presented. The charges on Kerr relate to the previous two years of betting involving around $1,000,000. The JCA Panel was told in 2016 Kerr stopped betting with the NZ TAB. They are saying the Betting Evidence received may have relevance relating to possible financial issues of Kerr. One relevance which may be relating to financial issues was the opening and closing of TAB accounts. If the Betting Expert is saying this why did the NZ TAB allow this to happen? The JCA was happy to quote the previous 2 years of Kerr's betting with Ladbrokes so to support this open/close financial impact as possible relevance you have to state the figures of loss's each year. If I am on the JCA panel I am asking the Betting Expert why didn't you request the figures from Ladbriokes for 2016-17? Umm those figures of any loss's may also have relevance to proceedings. Then I would ask him Kerr ceased betting with the NZ TAB in 2016 you have stated those years he did showed a pattern of possible financial issues due to open/close of accounts. Surely as a Betting Expert all drivers,jockeys and trainers are tagged on the NZ TAB's betting system you monitor for integrity reasons so when a trainer/driver like Kerr after 7 years of showing patterns of possible financial issues relating to his gambling dissappears of the radar you request your contacts in the Australian betting Industry such as Labrokes who as you state the NZ TAB has a formal agreement to tag Kerr on their system and advise accordingly. This was the year Kerr became a driver as well as driving so red light there. Quote The multiple individual victims – as many as 50 – although precise number are hard to ascertain How can you possibly ascertain precise numbers when your only quoting the last 2 years which is obviously due to the owners who finally had enough and blew the whistle. The reply the concerned person received 9 years ago after informing the NZ TAB that they were concerned his betting was out of control and he needed to be offered addiction guidance was nothing short of unbelievable. 100% Kerr is responsible for his actions but if the NZ TAB was allowing him to open and close accounts which the betting Expert said could have had implications on his financial situation and they let him load his account and blow his money and never approached him after getting approached from a concerned person as well as seeing a pattern of which may lead to possible financial implications under the Gambling Act and Racing Acts they are stuffed. He can claim the Gambling harm caused by the NZ TAB breaching Acts has mentally impacted on his mental health. The PC anti gambling Brigade would love to be reading about it. Ladbrokes will also be held accountable by the Gambling Commission in Aussie. The KYC there involves bookmakers knowing a customers occupation and his round about salary so in a situation where a bank manger is on roughly 100k a year and he blows hundreds of thousands in a year if the bookmaker doesnt react as required they in the gun big time. The fact the NZ TAB has the 2016-17 Ladbrokes figures and no notification loss wise is a concern. 59. The seriousness of the totality of the Respondent’s actions over an extended period, affecting multiple owners/clients, involving very substantial amounts of money, with egregious, appalling breaches of duties of faith and fiduciary obligations. The respondent can also be replaced with a couple of betting organisations. I wonder when his family realised his gambling was at the problem addiction stage. They say those badly addicted lie well to mask the seriousness of their problem and if family members cant read these warning signs and he gets no prevention and harm help he is basically $$%$$# https://fobcms.tab.co.nz/sites/default/files/2020-12/Harm_Prevention___Minimisation_Policy_2020.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZRacing Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 The sad part is there are a lot like Kerr who need help but don't want to admit that they need help. The financial loss's that Kerr's actions has impacted onto his owners,friends and others was obviously bad and he should have fronted the JCA as that would at least showed some remorse. The 50 odd that were financially impacted from Kerr's action should form a joint action group to seek possible financial recompense from the two betting companies he lost heavily to. And invite any others who may have suffered financially also. One of Kerr's family members or a close friend needs to join also as you would need info on certain matters verified or given. Reading between the lines a half decent lawyer with some gambling Northern Territory regulation knowledge would be a warm favourite to win. A lawyer in NZ with decent racing and gambling knowledge using the right areas to back his claims be favourite option also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 Not as if Ladbrokes hasn't been in trouble before. GVC fined 5.9 million pounds for failings at Ladbrokes By Reuters Staff 2 MIN READ (Reuters) - Britain's GVC GVC.L said on Wednesday it would pay 5.9 million pounds in fines as its Ladbrokes Coral unit had failed to safeguard consumers from gambling addiction and sustained losses. GVC bought bookmaker Ladbrokes Coral for up to 4 billion pounds in 2018. The Gambling Commission found that Ladbrokes Coral did not put safeguards to prevent consumers from gambling harm and money laundering, the National Lottery Commission said, citing some cases where the company could have stepped in. In one case, the commission said the company did not engage with a customer who lost £98,000 over two-and-a-half years. The Commission also said Ladbrokes allowed a customer to gamble without taking steps to verify the source of funds or consider if the customer could afford to spend and lose that amount of money. GVC said it had taken measures towards safer gambling processes including verifying customers’ sources of funds and a near five-fold increase in staffing in its compliance and responsible gambling teams since 2016. Several betting companies, including Bet365, Flutter FLTRE.I, Sky Betting & Gaming and William Hill WMH.L, said earlier this year they would significantly increase funding for problem gambling treatment and safer gambling measures. Reporting by Tanishaa Nadkar in Bengaluru; Editing by Anil D’Silva and Saumyadeb Chakrabarty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Reuters Staff 2 MIN READ (Reuters) - Britain's GVC GVC.L said on Wednesday it would pay 5.9 million pounds in fines as its Ladbrokes Coral unit had failed to safeguard consumers from gambling addiction and sustained losses. GVC bought bookmaker Ladbrokes Coral for up to 4 billion pounds in 2018. The Gambling Commission found that Ladbrokes Coral did not put safeguards to prevent consumers from gambling harm and money laundering, the National Lottery Commission said, citing some cases where the company could have stepped in. In one case, the commission said the company did not engage with a customer who lost £98,000 over two-and-a-half years. The Commission also said Ladbrokes allowed a customer to gamble without taking steps to verify the source of funds or consider if the customer could afford to spend and lose that amount of money. GVC said it had taken measures towards safer gambling processes including verifying customers’ sources of funds and a near five-fold increase in staffing in its compliance and responsible gambling teams since 2016. Several betting companies, including Bet365, Flutter FLTRE.I, Sky Betting & Gaming and William Hill WMH.L, said earlier this year they would significantly increase funding for problem gambling treatment and safer gambling measures. Reporting by Tanishaa Nadkar in Bengaluru; Editing by Anil D’Silva and Saumyadeb Chakrabarty
Rangatira Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 hours ago, NZRacing said: If a driver could only bet on his runner in a race there won't be any concerns from owners,trainers or more importantly punters if the driver has his hard earned on himself to win. Public confidence and integrity won't be harmed. If a Trackside presenter said to a driver in the race preview lead up comments "how confident are you that you can win the race" and he turned around and said "I have $500 to say I will". Any punter watching will be adding him into any exotic or other bet they are taking. Driver bet rubber stamps 100% public confidence on integrity on this runner. Also a great way to weed out the drivers who are poor race judges. Unbelievably if a trainer has a $1.50 favourite in a race and he thinks it can't win as either travelled badly, didn't eat up or worked like it is going to need an oxygen mask at the 100m and his mate has a $10 shot who tells him we will beat you tonight the $1.40 fav trainer if a punter will have something on his rival. i get what you are saying but it is nowhere as simple as that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 Excellent couple of post @NZRacing As you may have gathered from my posts I think there should be a number of follow up actions done with regard to the Kerr case which highlighted some serious deficiencies in many racing administration systems. Addressing those issues would have made it a lot harder for Kerr to feed his addiction and protected a large group of innocent people being ripped off. In my opinion there is an opportunity here for the NZ-TAB, HRNZ and the RIU to go on the front foot and publicly announce changes that will close the gaps that are glaringly apparent. A couple of points though. 1 hour ago, NZRacing said: Kerr became a Junior Driver in 2009 18 year old and that is the year he opened a NZ TAB betting account. In December 2014 Kerr was fined $650 for taking a 4 bet multi to return $6,221 which included a horse he was driving. If there are systems in place that enables the TAB/RIU/HRNZ to monitor Driver betting behaviour and obviously raise a flag when an event occurs they surely must have monitoring systems in place for offshore agencies otherwise it would be too easy to beat the system. So if they are doing that how much extra effort would be required to monitor the level of betting (losses) by a licensee? Systems wise it would be SFA. 2 hours ago, NZRacing said: Betting Expert ha the above comment is nothing short of embarrassing and piss poor in providing factual evidence to support his claims. The JCA Panel has shown neglect in responding to the claims presented. The charges on Kerr relate to the previous two years of betting involving around $1,000,000. My reading of that figure was they were referring to LOSSES only i.e. Kerr LOST $1,000,000 over two years. His turnover must have been much much higher than that. 2 hours ago, NZRacing said: Surely as a Betting Expert all drivers,jockeys and trainers are tagged on the NZ TAB's betting system you monitor for integrity reasons so when a trainer/driver like Kerr after 7 years of showing patterns of possible financial issues relating to his gambling dissappears of the radar you request your contacts in the Australian betting Industry such as Labrokes who as you state the NZ TAB has a formal agreement to tag Kerr on their system and advise accordingly. I agree 100%. In my opinion the RIU contribution to the judgement added nothing other than an arse covering exercise by them. There should have been monitoring systems in place that highlighted the amount of money a licensee was gambling. That is perfectly withing the remit of the HRNZ licensee rules, the RIU betting analyst and the gambling problem prevention laws within both NZ and OZ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 3 hours ago, NZRacing said: but if the NZ TAB was allowing him to open and close accounts All very well and good but you miss a major point in all this which is . Did the TAB close his account or accounts. I was told they did a number of years ago so blaming TAB for Kerr's woes is a touch harsh IMHO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZRacing Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Quote https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/dec/17/ladbrokes-wooed-problem-gambler-then-paid-victims-1m 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZRacing Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 https://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article/australian-bank-blames-bookmaker-for-betting-binge-143142 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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