amateur drivers.

[the galah]

I'm doing a brodie here,but watching a couple of those drivers in race 1 tonight makes you wonder if they should be driving.Put a small bet on ally mae,clealy the best performed,but couldn't put much on because its drivers record is poor. Well,that desparate for the fence early that it all but breaks a couple of times, Through luck finds itself in a position where it could get a lovely run on the outer,but 5 back the fence apparently the better option. Then that desparate to get a run in the straight it runs over several markers and eventually looking more like a kangaroo as it jumps them.Suspension coming up i would think,but really how does he get to drive anyway. I came out square because i know you just back S. wigg in these races as she is miles better than the rest as a driver.Unless you back her,those amateur races aren't worth the aggravation that go with them from a betting perspective.

Edited April 29, 2021 by the galah

[Davis]

17 minutes ago, the galah said:

I'm doing a brodie here,but watching a couple of those drivers in race 1 tonight makes you wonder if they should be driving.Put a small bet on ally mae,clealy the best performed,but couldn't put much on because its drivers record is poor. Well,that desparate for the fence early that it all but breaks a couple of times, Through luck finds itself in a position where it could get a lovely run on the outer,but 5 back the fence apparently the better option. Then that desparate to get a run in the straight it runs over several markers and eventually looking more like a kangaroo as it jumps them.Suspension coming up i would think,but really how does he get to drive anyway. I came out square because i know you just back S. wigg in these races as she is miles better than the rest as a driver.Unless you back her,those amateur races aren't worth the aggravation that go with them from a betting perspective.

I don't watch or bet on amateur driving races. Miss S. Wigg is a good, consistent driver and she has a sense of humour going by an interview I saw on Facebook. Good luck to her. 

[Karrots]

46 minutes ago, the galah said:

I'm doing a brodie here,but watching a couple of those drivers in race 1 tonight makes you wonder if they should be driving.Put a small bet on ally mae,clealy the best performed,but couldn't put much on because its drivers record is poor. Well,that desparate for the fence early that it all but breaks a couple of times, Through luck finds itself in a position where it could get a lovely run on the outer,but 5 back the fence apparently the better option. Then that desparate to get a run in the straight it runs over several markers and eventually looking more like a kangaroo as it jumps them.Suspension coming up i would think,but really how does he get to drive anyway. I came out square because i know you just back S. wigg in these races as she is miles better than the rest as a driver.Unless you back her,those amateur races aren't worth the aggravation that go with them from a betting perspective.

Yes saw that re Ally Mae rail unlucky for not getting a run. Would of run a placing otherwise.

Isn’t she or wasn’t she galloping pacemaker for that stable. Im sure I recognised her in a recent dual driver race (jockeys/drivers) video @ Camb. For some reason recognise how she runs, kind of like a cute waddle. Not being mean, thats how saw what happened in that race, as was watching out for her 😄

[mikeynz]

What is a amateur driver as such, or why don't they drive in normal races, do they get a drivers fee,what's the difference?

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, mikeynz said:

What is a amateur driver as such, or why don't they drive in normal races, do they get a drivers fee,what's the difference?

It is a Professional sport with very stringent rules for safety and fair play . All of the participants are seasoned professionals born into the industry, qualified and experienced and performing a professional service for their owners (and indirectly the betting public. The amateurs (well they usually do something else, and this is like a hobby) in sport. They should actually 'Pay to be there' (like they are buying the fun) instead of being paid for a professional service. (They probably do get a driving fee though as a courtesy though)

In my opinion, now Sheryl Wigg is a Public Trainer , amateur status should be finished,  and she shouldn't be in them races now. She is a professional in the industry.

[mikeynz]

Keith Lawlor would have been a amateur trainer slash driver yet drove his horse and won the Cup,still drove against the pros.

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

It is a Professional sport with very stringent rules for safety and fair play . All of the participants are seasoned professionals born into the industry, qualified and experienced and performing a professional service for their owners (and indirectly the betting public. The amateurs (well they usually do something else, and this is like a hobby) in sport. They should actually 'Pay to be there' (like they are buying the fun) instead of being paid for a professional service. (They probably do get a driving fee though as a courtesy though)

In my opinion, now Sheryl Wigg is a Public Trainer , amateur status should be finished,  and she shouldn't be in them races now. She is a professional in the industry.

Gammalite, very good point in regards to Sheryll Wigg!

If she is deriving income as a trainer then you would have to question the amateur driver status?

She is the best amateur by far in the country by her stats!

Some will say we are being negative and Sheryll is great for the industry and certainly need her!

However now she has taken over Tim’s horses she couldnt be classed as an amateur

[Karrots]

13 hours ago, mikeynz said:

What is a amateur driver as such, or why don't they drive in normal races, do they get a drivers fee,what's the difference?

Its some sort of course you have to do, like a 2 day weekend course or maybe 2 2 day weekends. Teaches you to gear up & stuff kind of thing too. Something along those lines. 

11 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Keith Lawlor would have been a amateur trainer slash driver yet drove his horse and won the Cup,still drove against the pros.

Never head of the term amateur trainer, must be like an old age term, the only terms I have heard are pro trainer & hobby trainer. But what an achievement whatever the term was back in the day when he won 👍

15 hours ago, Davis said:

I don't watch or bet on amateur driving races. Miss S. Wigg is a good, consistent driver and she has a sense of humour going by an interview I saw on Facebook. Good luck to her. 

Thought it was fantastic they did a story on her on HRNZ, over-due but better late than never. 

10 hours ago, Brodie said:

Gammalite, very good point in regards to Sheryll Wigg!

If she is deriving income as a trainer then you would have to question the amateur driver status?

She is the best amateur by far in the country by her stats!

Some will say we are being negative and Sheryll is great for the industry and certainly need her!

However now she has taken over Tim’s horses she couldnt be classed as an amateur

Agree with you & Gammas Brods, don't think it is a negative, think it as a positive. She is an amazing 'amateur' far too good to be competing at that level. Like with horses and juniors after x amount of wins they move up grades or as with juniors after x amount of time they move up & merge in with the seniors and some go on to do very well. Wigg should also be now or soon merging in with the senior drivers. Also the point re pro trainer also to be taken into consideration to justify a move up the ranks. 

[the galah]

Unfortunately the moral of the story for some of these amateurs "is keep your expectations low,that way you will never be disappointed"

The reality is the good amateurs get better,and the less skilled don't seem to improve at all. And there aren't any new amateur drivers coming through,so the less skilled often get drives.The fella that drove ally mae last night drove it like it was a car where you can swerve or pump the brakes hard with no consequences,but its a horse,not a car.And tactically he showed no brains either. I thought he got off lightly with a $250 fine.

I think punters need s wigg to continue as an amateur driver. Punters won't invest if they have no confidence in any of the drivers She is definitely the best. Some of the others go ok as well,just theres a big difference between the best and the less skilled.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by the galah

[Gammalite]

14 minutes ago, Karrots said:

it as a positive. She is an amazing 'amateur' far too good to be competing at that level. Like with horses and juniors after x amount of wins they move up grades or as with juniors after x amount of time they move up & merge in with the seniors and some go on to do very well. Wigg should also be now or soon merging in with the senior drivers

Just saw the article on The HRNZ site. April 27th. about Sheryl. 

Calls her 'Strike Rate Sheryl' with 50 wins from 150 drives. That's near as good as Nat ! lol and with about a 10th of the horsepower Nat get's to drive , and against a field of 'learner' drivers hehehe. Totally amazing record !!   She is running rings around them with ability. fantastic.

reminds me of Kate Gath (vic) Amanda Turnbull (NSW) and the 3 McMullen girls (Qld) who can all jump on 'anything' it seems and get the job done , and just keep winning. They had the Australian Female driving Championship in Tasmania last month with 2 girls from each state (so 12 in total) had a crack drawing randoms through 6 races. The two QUEENSLAND girls ran 1st and 2nd on the final points table !! sisters Danielle and Narissa McMullen . How good is that.? Queensland rules the world lol.....   

(have to admit Qld would of been 3rd and 4th if Nat and Sheryl turned up to rep for NZ though !!! lol)

[Gammalite]

6 minutes ago, the galah said:

I think punters need s wigg to continue as an amateur driver. Punters won't invest if they have no confidence in any of the drivers She is definitely the best. Some of the others go ok as wel

Seems strange it is a 'tote' event , as given the level of difficulty in driving a race, for people to lose money on say the drive on AllyMae you discussed must be detrimental to the industry (as in putting punters off harness)

I sent a horse around in the amateur race at Auckland once for a lovely owner, who had a fairly slow horse. It was run between the Tote races, as a novelty (or like a trial basically) and all the drivers had fun, and a rugby chap drove our filly home first to win the race prize. A big LAZY-BOY recliner !!! lol... the owner was delighted.!!

[mikeynz]

Keith Lawlor would have been a one horse trainer, thus deemed to be a amateur trainer,this is 1975 he won the cup,and he drove the horse himself,these amateur driving races as such they have now a relatively new as in being a betting race, I just can't see how they can't drive against the rest in standard races,a bit of a grey area to me.

[mikeynz]

After posting a couple of comments on this subject I now have to come to the conclusion that I no longer give a fuck about the subject anyway lol.

[Karrots]

Sometimes with amateur races, I’m like oh 3 wide oh & now 4 wide. Oh dear, but then I think, oh well at least they are trying to put horse in race 😬

Wouldn’t it be harder to drive in because of this & often the speed is on & sometimes kamikaze driving for lead. 

Well gotta say Galahs sorry but no sympathy there for you, you knew the sito & odds but chose to bet against. But at least it was just a small bet 😄 Not sure I, 100% agree with you re Wigg & punters wouldn't bet if she wasn't in, just as with Jnrs when the top Jnr or a few from the top move out of Jnrs people still bet on the races. I would more be thinking, that if she moved out of amateurs then likely pull the horses out too, so may not get the fields ...

I see re 1975. Yeah nowadays guess it is viewed more like, well if he has just 1 horse training, it is a hobby for him, as he would have a full-time employment else were or could be retired and its his side fun hobby.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Karrots said:

 Not sure I, 100% agree with you re Wigg & punters wouldn't bet if she wasn't in, just as with Jnrs when the top Jnr or a few from the top move out of Jnrs people still bet on the races

Sheryl is going great guns. two trifectas training already I believe with her stable runners!, cool!, so for sure she must be itching to drive one of them. Won 50 races from 150 drives to date, (51 after last night?) so sure to get support, and be worthy of a bet. Definitely worthy of graduation from amateur level!

The juniors were a strong bunch back in the day too,  as young Tony Herlihy and also Mark Purdon in the juniors and you  Just couldn't wait for them to graduate out!!! as they absolutely mopped the floor with their rivals lol..... , no matter what they were driving. never beat them once. McKendry and Mangoose were amongst the fray too, at times. Those Big 14 horse fields you always had made it VERY, very, hard to even get a placing. more likely to be On the Deck, lol...with one of those time famous  "Not another crash in the probationary race again" scenarios lol.....

[eljay]

What is best - an amateur 3 or 4 wide getting in the race or a professional ducking for the markers 4 deep where horses chances immediately extinguished.       Amateurs don't get paid a driving fee 

[Karrots]

58 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Sheryl is going great guns. two trifectas training already I believe with her stable runners!, cool!, so for sure she must be itching to drive one of them. Won 50 races from 150 drives to date, (51 after last night?) so sure to get support, and be worthy of a bet. Definitely worthy of graduation from amateur level!

Yip agree, the more I'm thinking about this, the more I am thinking its time to graduate to senior driver ranks. The time has come 😄 No negativity just positivity and she can easily fit in as a senior driver. 

26 minutes ago, eljay said:

What is best - an amateur 3 or 4 wide getting in the race or a professional ducking for the markers 4 deep where horses chances immediately extinguished.     

Id prefer being put in race even if its 3 or 4 wide, as I said at least they put horse in race. The timing is the key thing for me with this, 4 wide around a full corner at somewhere like Cambridge mid race is not ideal. Got to move along those straights if poss & when tempo slows. 

But all drivers make mistakes. Take Z Butcher who is my fav driver number 1 driver & I've said that on here prior. But felt even he made a mistake last nite Camb in an early race, after a fab mid race move to get the 1-1, then felt he came out way too early & took the final cnr fully 3 wide around it not part way around it. Didn't understand the need to cover all the extra ground. The horse faded. 

But yes all good points, Eljay you might know the weather answer Davis is asking about in Auks on another thread. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Karrots