Chief Stipe Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I'm a little bit over all the negativity especially the demonisation of excellence. So Harness BOAY'ers what IS wrong with Harness racing in New Zealand? What would you change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 I'll kick this off. First thing I'd change is get rid of any bullshit regulations that make someone like @Karrots think twice about posting sheer positivity anonymously on social media. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 stabilize all the current Clubs still in action. they all 'deserve' something in the HRNZ handout of prize-money. Bring in an award winning accountant to work it out (the distribution hand-out) ? Clubs responsible for the on-course maintenance and race day facilities, but most importantly , have Benefactors , who love the harness racing , to support the Clubs financially, near where they live and want to race their horses. In Auckland, Max Harvey (of Harvey Furnishings) used to have Inter-island challenge stakes, Akld Cup sponsorship etc, be club 'Patron' etc, . these days you need Millionaires who love harness racing to donate to the clubs prize-money pool for races to make it viable. Kevin Seymour and Chris Garrard (horse and hound millionaire) have done it for years in Brisbane , whereas without them, Albion may of folded years ago. Why not try John Green at Auckland ? Get the 'Hugh Green Foundation' to run the show??? Multi millionaire dollar organisation , and John loves harness racing, (raced The Agent Orange) and he's former trainer too!! . even had wedding at Alex park (as I was lucky enough to attend with the bride Trish's family.) so they love the place. It is IMPERATIVE to get millionaire breeders ,example : like John Green (or Seymour in Brisbane ) on All the trotting club committees to keep clubs afloat. and keep harness racing alive. You need STRONG (i.e rich, lol.....) club board members, who want to race their horses. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 Have a top negotiator at the top table when the carve up of the TAB revenue is discussed. Someone who will not take second best to Thoroughbreds. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I question the basic assumption that there's anything wrong with NZ harness racing. In the South we have new trainers, drivers, juniors. Several older tracks are closing, but horse numbers are good, local interest is good. There's always room for improvement...stakes , rejigging the calendar etc. So in the South, all things considered I am quietly optimistic. But as for the basket case that is the north ????!!!! 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I'll kick this off. First thing I'd change is get rid of any bullshit regulations that make someone like @Karrots think twice about posting sheer positivity anonymously on social media. Its the final countdown, dada da dadadadada, dada da da, dadadadada. 53 minutes ago, Ludwig said: So in the South, all things considered I am quietly optimistic. Ok so now it is at a point where you actually crack me up Luds. 27 May Luds says “There's clearly something going on in the South. Not only the Forbury committee at odds, but the mayor of Invercargill and his deputy are not talking again!!!!” “Lead article in today's ODT, the attempt on Tuesday night to unseat the chair and two committee members from the Forbury Park. Nothing like a good internal bun fight to distract from the real issues of a new Forbury racing centre”. Feel like Im picking on you now Luds, so apologises, no more picking on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Repeating what I said on other thread but this: Jnr driver races in North need to be done via a random draw. Driver is allocated to horse based on a random draw. If not enough horses nom-ed then 1 o 2 others to be randomly drawn to be pulled into event. In order to be able to hold a Jnr drive race once a month in North. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrison Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jones said: Repeating what I said on other thread but this: Jnr driver races in North need to be done via a random draw. Driver is allocated to horse based on a random draw. If not enough horses nom-ed then 1 o 2 others to be randomly drawn to be pulled into event. In order to be able to hold a Jnr drive race once a month in North. They tried this out at the start of the season and it didn’t work out... Can understand the idea behind it but the reality is most have their own drivers & it’s actually really unfair when you’ve worked your way up through a stable for years and they have some nice horses that you might get a turn on and then some other random junior gets to drive them & get the win. If you want success in the industry you need to work hard and earn your opportunities. Also the vast majority of trainers aren’t happy to take a gamble they might get someone whose hardly driven etc.. especially for instance there are some horses who are unruly, pull hard etc.. that a young junior might get in to trouble on, but someone more experienced can manage fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 14 minutes ago, Jones said: Repeating what I said on other thread but this: Jnr driver races in North need to be done via a random draw. Driver is allocated to horse based on a random draw. If not enough horses nom-ed then 1 o 2 others to be randomly drawn to be pulled into event. In order to be able to hold a Jnr drive race once a month in North. Excellent idea. even have 2 races like this per racenight , once a week. limited starters per race of say 8 (increases safety and owners chances of winning) and extra $2000 for winner above the normal they would race for. use C1 horses (at least one win so have been around a while and/or capable of winning a race. ) random draw as Jones suggested to get new winners each week !! RESULT : 2 winning horses , 2 slightly richer happy owners, 2 very chuffed junior drivers at the weekly meeting. What could go wrong ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Give Dennis the menace more horses is what they should do --- the results he gets from the 3 or 4 horses he has is remarkable considering the ability of the horses --- and yes I know they race most weeks and battle but if Otago/Southland had another 10 trainers like him with just a few competitive horses !!! They tell us field sizes equates to turnover so find away to get 12 plus in every race then suits........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 22 minutes ago, Harrison said: They tried this out at the start of the season and it didn’t work out... Can understand the idea behind it but the reality is most have their own drivers & it’s actually really unfair when you’ve worked your way up through a stable for years and they have some nice horses that you might get a turn on and then some other random junior gets to drive them & get the win. If you want success in the industry you need to work hard and earn your opportunities. Also the vast majority of trainers aren’t happy to take a gamble they might get someone whose hardly driven etc.. especially for instance there are some horses who are unruly, pull hard etc.. that a young junior might get in to trouble on, but someone more experienced can manage fine. Some very good points . the horses have to be fairly tractable to be in junior races, with the inexperience factor. I wish you guys could of seen them from the 80's. Tony used to win the 'probationary' races mostly, Mark P on dad Roy's horses would go close , the rest of us would scrap it out for the remaining 12 drives so was very much like a random draw in the end , as to who a trainer (or owner) wanted to 'Give a go' on any given week. Usually C1 or C2 class horses , but wow , there are demolition derbies on occasion, because field size, too BIG !!! Was way more opportunity getting to Australia. (races 5 days a week (some 6) in most states you can attend and drive. In Brisbane these days , the reins are given to the youngsters mainly EVERY race. John McMullen, only in his 50's like a few of us but hasn't driven for 10 years, says its a young persons game .(Race Driving) His 4 kids win 10 races every week between them Grant Dixon probably the oldest at 50 years old that goes round regularly. Juniors are in Every race. They drive for to old an age in NZ .lol.. Average driver age would be twice that of an Australian race. Mango seen the light lately? lol give the youngsters a go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Average driver age would be twice that of an Australian race. Mango seen the light lately? lol give the youngsters a go. Before logging out for nite, got to give this a toot toot & whistle. Actually no a hoot hoot as toot did you know is fart in USA lol. Anyway YES give the youngsters a go 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 They need people on committees that know what they are doing and have financial nous! Our government has no one in their caucus when any business success whatsoever and it shows! Racing needs punters and turning punters away is just a no no, as there are bugger all new punters coming thru and are not being encourage either! Until domination of major races by the one stable disappears there is going to be big problems attracting new owners! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Dougie said: Give Dennis the menace more horses is what they should do --- the results he gets from the 3 or 4 horses he has is remarkable considering the ability of the horses --- and yes I know they race most weeks and battle but if Otago/Southland had another 10 trainers like him with just a few competitive horses !!! They tell us field sizes equates to turnover so find away to get 12 plus in every race then suits........ Forbury in particular in recent times has been having some very small fields and only 8 races,a sign of the times but not a good look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 5 minutes ago, mikeynz said: Forbury in particular in recent times has been having some very small fields and only 8 races,a sign of the times but not a good look. Fields are generally smaller at this time of the season in the south. Addington has small fields on Friday too. This is the best time of the season for a slowish horse to pick up a win or two. Michael House does it well. He races them regularly, at least once a week. so they probably don't need much work. On race day he has top drivers and the results come. At this time of the season many races are just a sprint home and you have to be handy to the pace or you have no show. Top drivers put their horse into the race more often, not always though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 (edited) One thing I dont think is good is the large number of Addington sunday meetings,they get the prime friday night,leave sundays for other clubs,southland should get the sundays in spring until the grass season kicks off in Canterbury and daylight saving starts,then southland can race midweek if it need be,at least in the north it's all pretty consistent,thursdays and fridays.only exception is CD racing. Sundays really should be for smaller centers,gallops and trots. Edited June 24, 2021 by mikeynz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I'll kick this off. First thing I'd change is get rid of any bullshit regulations that make someone like @Karrots think twice about posting sheer positivity anonymously on social media. "Sheer positivity"??? Is that what you call it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 10 hours ago, Ludwig said: "Sheer positivity"??? Is that what you call it? Luds you are right, not always sheer positivity. That is a lil funny lol. But do get Chiefs drift. We have been over this before. But hey suck it up, just a few more days to go. 30th is not far away. Again, sorry if have been picking on you lately. It's hard to understand where you are coming from when you post something like this, here is an example on this thread: “I question the basic assumption that there's anything wrong with NZ harness racing”. Then moments later you say this “But as for the basket case that is the north ????!!!! Maybe you might not realise it, but this is a complete contradiction. Keep posting tho, your good at chatting about Deep South things & starting threads on the Deep South 😃 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 12 hours ago, mikeynz said: One thing I dont think is good is the large number of Addington sunday meetings,they get the prime friday night,leave sundays for other clubs,southland should get the sundays in spring until the grass season kicks off in Canterbury and daylight saving starts,then southland can race midweek if it need be,at least in the north it's all pretty consistent,thursdays and fridays.only exception is CD racing. Sundays really should be for smaller centers,gallops and trots. Disagree. There is nothing wrong with the Sunday Addington meetings that cater for the lower class of horse and I think they should be run all season. Southland harness has traditionally not had much winter racing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Davis said: Addington meetings that cater for the lower class of horse and I think they should be run all season. Absolutely!!, Every week all year round Addington and Alex Park should have 2 meetings. One for the fast class metro, and one for the lower class , slower ones. they are Prime centres. they need to be fully utilised. (Albion,Menangle,Globederby,Gloucester,Melton) 5 states have been doing it for years , and it works beautifully. Costs to much to travel far these days, and trainers have horses at home to work so they need regular 'short' trips to the races. Those Aus tracks don't race Sundays either, as even HARNESS folk deserve a day off ONE DAY a week lol.... still have to have someone feed/swim/drench/shoe/host visiting owners do a few hours though. (slow old Tassie backwater races Sundays however) Use Sunday for family and friends and celebrating your Big Saturday night Metro wins !!! lol...... it's quite a long week in harness. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) Gamma, unfortunately we have not got enough fast class horses to line up for good stakes at the moment! We have heaps of looser class horses around that will race vut middle class plus have mostly been sold lverseas! Also the clubs have bot got enough money to lay the higher stakes each and every week due to profit from the TAB bot being high enough to cater for the 3 different codes! Turnover needs to be increased to make sufficient profit and the TAB are not good at making correct decisions nowadays! Oncourse attendance is very poor now and needs to be turned around quickly. Oz gets away with it due to the much bigger population. Edited June 25, 2021 by Brodie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 The two biggest issues for me are stakes & handicapping We need to find more revenue both through betting and non betting revenues to increase prize money. 1 - Create more excitement through large jackpots and attract new money by scrapping pick 6 and have a pick nine every week. 2- Clubs should look for non race revenue by utilising assets better i.e renting out facilities for wedding receptions for example. Rating system is improvement on the old system but drop backs need to happen faster so horses can stay competitive 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 how to fix harness racing? well good start would be to get rid of the keystone cops .and all your dead wood and wipe the slate clean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, paleface adios said: how to fix harness racing? well good start would be to get rid of the keystone cops .and all your dead wood and wipe the slate clean Well another way to fix it would be for the Brodster to come up with a good tip for tonight !!! lol ...Sugar Me? paleface adios has done his bit and come up with SHOCKWAVE (potential superstar in Perth tonight) , although as a Geelong Cats supporter is licking deep wounds today lol...., inflicted by the Mighty Brisbane Lions last night ! tough Luck paleface !lol....... made to look like pussies lol. Redcliffe Derby and Cup on here tomorrow . Superstars KRUG (should win the Derby by a minute), and COLT THIRTY ONE the group2 Redcliffe Cup , to go past $1,000,000 in prizemoney won, and become the 2nd best ever QLDer to Black's a Fake.!! what an honour . Today Bob Butt from NZ, is having a drive at Albion on a trotter !!!! wow ! let's back him in ?? love a good kiwi driver R9 IMA CALVERT ROSE .from the high performing Butler stable. so it's SHOCKWAVE - KRUG - COLT THIRTY ONE - IMA CALVERT ROSE quad at 30-1 !!! $2 gets a carton !! Com'on Bob !!! do ya bit and win with the trotter and join the 3 superstars !! I can taste the beer already hehehehe 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Remember With a Dream starting a thread about Black type for breeding. If this black type which is meant to hold Prestige I gather ... , which is I think sub 2.00 … ? But not 100% sure ... IF that is correct … ? then think it needs to get updated as With a Dream suggested earlier. Nothing special these days that I view for a horse to go faster than MR2.00 Think its getting more standard these days isn’t it? Yes Gamms would love another Jonny Longshot tip if he is tuning in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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