paleface adios Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Is a mile Spankem's best distance? Geez @the galah compares his two mile form with last night!!!! Go figure! lets put it this way chief .it cannot run a one mile race out nowadays so how da hell would it run 2miles out now lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 1 hour ago, paleface adios said: lets put it this way chief .it cannot run a one mile race out nowadays so how da hell would it run 2miles out now lol not you too paleface, as you showed great judgement in pointing out Shockwave in the wild west as a good un' Spankem hadn't won his 4 starts this year in NZ either before leaving NZ shores? COPY THAT had won quite a few !! so why is Spankem supposed to be beating him all the time? I can't see it. how? Thought NZ enthusiasts would be REJOICING with the fact two Superstars have emerged , KRUG and COPY THAT , neither are Allstars or Cullens horses.? , isn't that what ALL you Blokes wanted ????? instead all want to pick on one of the 'hardest tryers' going around , brilliant tryer SPANKEM. plenty of seconds but still a Miracle Mile winner. just not winning when you all want him too? did win here 2 starts ago anyway. dribble on. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 10 hours ago, Gammalite said: not you too paleface, as you showed great judgement in pointing out Shockwave in the wild west as a good un' Spankem hadn't won his 4 starts this year in NZ either before leaving NZ shores? COPY THAT had won quite a few !! so why is Spankem supposed to be beating him all the time? I can't see it. how? Thought NZ enthusiasts would be REJOICING with the fact two Superstars have emerged , KRUG and COPY THAT , neither are Allstars or Cullens horses.? , isn't that what ALL you Blokes wanted ????? instead all want to pick on one of the 'hardest tryers' going around , brilliant tryer SPANKEM. plenty of seconds but still a Miracle Mile winner. just not winning when you all want him too? did win here 2 starts ago anyway. dribble on. lol has lost a leg .1.47 miler cannot run 1.52 mile rate and got to remember the distance was only 1660 metres not 1690 mitres a true mile race distance. it is great Krug and copy that are from different stables make a change .if turn it up is such a great horse why did LEE PILCHER lease it out 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, paleface adios said: the distance was only 1660 metres not 1690 mitres a true mile race distance. Hunter a mile is 1609m not 1690 metres!!!! That's why the race time was GREATER than the mile rate!!!!! 7 minutes ago, paleface adios said: lol has lost a leg .1.47 miler cannot run 1.52 mile rate You must have signed up to @the galah's form analysis service. @Newmarket, @paleface adios, @hunterthepunter, @Brodie and @the galah you need to take your anti-anything All Stars murphy blinds off and do some proper form analysis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 10 hours ago, Gammalite said: not you too paleface, as you showed great judgement in pointing out Shockwave in the wild west as a good un' Spankem hadn't won his 4 starts this year in NZ either before leaving NZ shores? COPY THAT had won quite a few !! so why is Spankem supposed to be beating him all the time? I can't see it. how? Thought NZ enthusiasts would be REJOICING with the fact two Superstars have emerged , KRUG and COPY THAT , neither are Allstars or Cullens horses.? , isn't that what ALL you Blokes wanted ????? instead all want to pick on one of the 'hardest tryers' going around , brilliant tryer SPANKEM. plenty of seconds but still a Miracle Mile winner. just not winning when you all want him too? did win here 2 starts ago anyway. dribble on. Well the reason we go on about spankem is because he is yet another example of a horse that has left the all stars, and then raced below the levels he did for them. And we ask why? Its also obvious from reading this forum that many believe they think they know why.Thats never going to change.So its not really about a particular horse.Its about a consistent pattern involving many horses which then reinforce the opinions already held. And spankem has followed the normal trend. Its something thats always going to be highlighted,so i guess you just have to accept it is a subject many feel strongly about,and will continue to comment about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Hunter a mile is 1609m not 1690 metres!!!! That's why the race time was GREATER than the mile rate!!!!! You must have signed up to @the galah's form analysis service. @Newmarket, @paleface adios, @hunterthepunter, @Brodie and @the galah you need to take your anti-anything All Stars murphy blinds off and do some proper form analysis. He just typed 1690 instead of 1609. The point he made is accurate. Looks like youv'e highlighted a very intelligent group of posters there chief. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, the galah said: Its also obvious from reading this forum that many believe they think they know why.Thats never going to change.So its not really about a particular horse.Its about a consistent pattern involving many horses which then reinforce the opinions already held. And spankem has followed the normal trend. Do you think that the All Stars might actually be quite astute and know when to move a horse on if it is struggling or is going to struggle in NZ? Perhaps because the All Stars themselves have a stable full of horses that are better than for example Spankem? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, the galah said: Its also obvious from reading this forum that many believe they think they know why. It's obvious from reading this forum that many who believe they think they know why have no idea why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: It's obvious from reading this forum that many who believe they think they know why have no idea why. I'm glad you have finally admitted that chief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 4, 2021 Share Posted July 4, 2021 14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Do you think that the All Stars might actually be quite astute and know when to move a horse on if it is struggling or is going to struggle in NZ? Perhaps because the All Stars themselves have a stable full of horses that are better than for example Spankem? Can't recall anyone ever saying the all stars aren't the best.Whats being discussed re spankem is only one aspect of an outstanding stable.No one says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, the galah said: Its also obvious from reading this forum that many believe they think they know why. Why ?? I can't see why they believe that rubbish? (Brodie and Newmarket yeah maybe as always) but com on' guys ! Spankem hasn't lost form. He did very well in that race, is what Chief and I are saying. Burned early. aggressive drive from Kylie. Sloppy track. we had a bit of rain so whoever commented on the time ran is DREAMING. Sunshine Coast gallops were canned altogeather. Track record record is 1.50.4 I quite expect them to miss it by 2 seconds in the slop. Spankem has beaten by KING OF SWING and COPY THAT at his last 2 starts. Two of the Very Best in the Southern Hemishere?? surely you guys agree to that fact at least?. Do you seriously think SPANKEM should be beating them ???? He's Not LAZARUS !!!!!!!!!!! I'm just arguing you're 'asking too much' of the great horse. make him sound like a cat? or Queensland trainers are useless.? Two things I strongly disagree with > >>>> that's my comment. We could discuss many Allstars horses and I totally disagree with that too. Smooth Deal even won in Oz recently lol.... There is no 'Trend' .Horses good there have been good here too. (acknowledged by Newmarket even???? )goodness! lol...... Galah said TURN IT UP should of won Sat? where's the loss of form then ?? We did have a GROUP 1 here in Brissy a while back, and he ran third to KING OF SWING and COLT 31, the very Best Possible result he could achieve I feel ??? The great GAMMALITE himself won an Auckland Cup like TURN IT UP as well, but had only one 2nd placing in 6 starts at Addington. And doesn't mean he lost form or anything. Just had some SERIOUS OPPOSITION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Why ?? I can't see why they believe that rubbish? (Brodie and Newmarket yeah maybe as always) but com on' guys ! Spankem hasn't lost form. He did very well in that race, is what Chief and I are saying. Burned early. aggressive drive from Kylie. Sloppy track. we had a bit of rain so whoever commented on the time ran is DREAMING. Sunshine Coast gallops were canned altogeather. Track record record is 1.50.4 I quite expect them to miss it by 2 seconds in the slop. Spankem has beaten by KING OF SWING and COPY THAT at his last 2 starts. Two of the Very Best in the Southern Hemishere?? surely you guys agree to that fact at least?. Do you seriously think SPANKEM should be beating them ???? He's Not LAZARUS !!!!!!!!!!! I'm just arguing you're 'asking too much' of the great horse. make him sound like a cat? or Queensland trainers are useless.? Two things I strongly disagree with > >>>> that's my comment. We could discuss many Allstars horses and I totally disagree with that too. Smooth Deal even won in Oz recently lol.... There is no 'Trend' .Horses good there have been good here too. (acknowledged by Newmarket even???? )goodness! lol...... Galah said TURN IT UP should of won Sat? where's the loss of form then ?? We did have a GROUP 1 here in Brissy a while back, and he ran third to KING OF SWING and COLT 31, the very Best Possible result he could achieve I feel ??? The great GAMMALITE himself won an Auckland Cup like TURN IT UP as well, but had only one 2nd placing in 6 starts at Addington. And doesn't mean he lost form or anything. Just had some SERIOUS OPPOSITION. Fair enough,but can you name just one that has improved after leaving the all stars. Also can you name one successful stallion that the all stars have trained. And if you think anyone has said spankem is racing like a cat or queensland trainers are useless,like you have suggested has been said,then your obviously not getting what people are saying.Paleface's reference to lacking red cells couldn't have made it any clearer what some think. Also,i think you will find most people think spankems form when trained by the all stars was better than copy that. Thats not denying copy that is a top horse. Spankem after all has won 1.59 million. Also you mentioned turn it up. I think anyone in nz would agree that the Turn it up that raced in nz,was a better version than the one you have over there. Like i said,its just what many people believe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, the galah said: I'm glad you have finally admitted that chief. Referring the usual group which I listed above. Quite frankly innuendo, inference and supposition doesn't cut it in my mind. I've made it quite clear why I think the All Stars are the best harness stable in OZ and NZ. On par with the top Thoroughbred Stables in OZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, the galah said: I think anyone in nz would agree that the Turn it up that raced in nz,was a better version than the one you have over there. Well I'm confused with this , as you said you thought TURN IT UP should of won the race , (and beat CopyThat,Spankem,Colt31) and yet is only a poor version of the NZ one? ??contradiction. but anyway see what he does next , as always. I see you support paleface and red blood cells theory, well I'm sick of that arguement . But will just add there is DECADES of SUCCESS. so how long red blood cells in action? mmmmm .....not decades? might be a red herring !! lol.......smarts required. lol... 15 minutes ago, the galah said: Fair enough,but can you name just one that has improved after leaving the all stars. Also can you name one successful stallion that the all stars have trained. No, they were the best !! but horses like Cruz Bromac and Princess Tiffany have Group1 success elesewhere too. so please give the horses some credit sometimes. not just the 'red cell' theory lol....... (tongue in cheek) LAZARUS is a stallion ??? goat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, the galah said: Also,i think you will find most people think spankems form when trained by the all stars was better than copy that. Thats not denying copy that is a top horse. Spankem after all has won 1.59 million. FFS @the galah - Spankem is a 6 year old gelding - Copy That is a four year old i.e. has raced two less seasons than Spankem. You really like comparing pumpkins with oranges don't you! Copy That has thrashed Spankem at least twice and the latter struggles now to keep up with Amazing Dream and Self Assured. Can you explain Spankem's 2020 season form? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Referring the usual group which I listed above. Quite frankly innuendo, inference and supposition doesn't cut it in my mind. I've made it quite clear why I think the All Stars are the best harness stable in OZ and NZ. On par with the top Thoroughbred Stables in OZ. Chief, just a quick question to have tiny break from the 'rigor's' of defending poor old Spankem and Allstars for a second, what did you think of the Leading galloping stable starting that hurdler on Saturday? BAK DA MASTER for Jamie Richards in Race 2 Sat was going to win too , but crashed shockingly at the last fence or second last fence in a jaw dropping moment.?? Does he need that?? The leading stable with 'Melody Belle colours' crashing to Terra Firma after flying high up and over? I had a look at those first 3 races at Hastings Saturday, and as Galah said on gallops thread , that was sort of awful, in my opinion as well. The jockey in horse falling at the last fence, in race 2 nearly got launched into orbit !!!! held my breath for that one. Seems so unnecessary ? for want of a better word these days . (Because of risk to horse and Jockey IMO) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) gammalite. Are you aware of what Turn it ups record was in nz when trained by the all stars. 15 starts for 11 wins and 4 seconds. Three group 1 wins,and three of the seconds were in group 1 races. (beaten by spankem in two of those group ones).Thats why we don't think his queensland form compares with his nz form. Of course they have trained some great horses.I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise. As far as you saying decades of success. Its only in the last few years that i would say the red cell thing has become a bit obvious. As i have said previously,i don't think it has been as noticeable with cullen at the helm,and just prior to that as well. So i have seen no one caste aspersions on any historical purdon success. Thats my take on things. Edited July 5, 2021 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Chief, just a quick question to have tiny break from the 'rigor's' of defending poor old Spankem and Allstars for a second, what did you think of the Leading galloping stable starting that hurdler on Saturday? BAK DA MASTER for Jamie Richards in Race 2 Sat was going to win too , but crashed shockingly at the last fence or second last fence in a jaw dropping moment.?? Does he need that?? The leading stable with 'Melody Belle colours' crashing to Terra Firma after flying high up and over? I had a look at those first 3 races at Hastings Saturday, and as Galah said on gallops thread , that was sort of awful, in my opinion as well. The jockey in horse falling at the last fence, in race 2 nearly got launched into orbit !!!! held my breath for that one. Seems so unnecessary ? for want of a better word these days . (Because of risk to horse and Jockey IMO) I think a lot of it has to do with the state of the inside track and the disrepair of the jumps. The horse seemed to clear the jump with ease but his front legs sort of knuckled (slipped?_ and then the momentum carried the back of this body under the fence. Looked worse than it was as these things often do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, the galah said: Its only in the last few years that i would say the red cell thing has become a bit obvious. What "red cell thing"? You see I don't believe you actually understand the technology. It is actually about spinning the red blood cells out and retaining the platelet enriched plasma/autologous conditioned serum which I believe is yellow/clear. The enriched plasma is then injected into those areas that suffer wear and tear but don't have very good healing properties because of limited blood supply e.g. joints. Nothing to do with "red blood cells" or increasing the red blood cell count of the blood to enhance oxygen carrying capacity and therefore improving performance. The PRP/ACS is therapeutic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, the galah said: gammalite. Are you aware of what Turn it ups record was in nz when trained by the all stars. 15 starts for 11 wins and 4 seconds. Three group 1 wins,and three of the seconds were in group 1 races. (beaten by spankem in two of those group ones).Thats why we don't think his queensland form compares with his nz form. Of course they have trained some great horses.I haven't seen anyone suggest otherwise. As far as you saying decades of success. Its only in the last few years that i would say the red cell thing has become a bit obvious. As i have said previously,i don't think it has been as noticeable with cullen at the helm. So i have seen no one caste aspersions on any historical purdon success. Thats my take on things. All good. The fact many 'question' the success is likely to warrant extra attention and keep everything honest and above board. I questioned the staggering recent success of GRIMSON /TRAINOR team 'Barn' at Menangle recently , on another thread. Stewards even locked their barn up under supervision for a while last month to see whats going on. think they won another 3 races on Saturday from memory. red cells are in order on their runners ok hehehehe TURN IT UP is a real beauty !! hey that is a great record in NZ ! Mark races him still I think? not 100% sure. But he does race AKUTA !! AKUTA could be the next Lazarus too.!! great reward for Mark . and lets hope Cullen can keep all those red blood cells in order ?? Enjoy the racing !! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I think a lot of it has to do with the state of the inside track and the disrepair of the jumps. The horse seemed to clear the jump with ease but his front legs sort of knuckled (slipped?_ and then the momentum carried the back of this body under the fence. Looked worse than it was as these things often do. Oh yes , the 'Master' jumped straight up . lifting the plastic running rail out of the way himself lol. thank goodness not solid rail.!!. One of my first visits to Alexandra Park , and Mark Purdons brother Owen Purdon, had a crash in front of the Grandstand, on 'Egmont Kawhai 'who got impaled on the running rail they used to have!!!, Was very distressing to see all that damage. (to the horse). One of those shocking things that just stays with you. rail removal and change to marker poles a true blessing in the 90's.!! Anyway , I sort of meant does Jamie Richards himself need to set horses in the jumps?. wouldn't the High profile Te Akau brand, be better to Lead the way in Group racing? I do admire 'experts' in their field though. The late Ken Browne (jumping trainer icon) won every time over fences, the few times I went to Ellerslie. just a legend!. But this century? can't they just put those old horses over a 2 mile 'slow' flat course or something? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Gammalite said: All good. The fact many 'question' the success is likely to warrant extra attention and keep everything honest and above board. I questioned the staggering recent success of GRIMSON /TRAINOR team 'Barn' at Menangle recently , on another thread. Stewards even locked their barn up under supervision for a while last month to see whats going on. think they won another 3 races on Saturday from memory. red cells are in order on their runners ok hehehehe TURN IT UP is a real beauty !! hey that is a great record in NZ ! Mark races him still I think? not 100% sure. But he does race AKUTA !! AKUTA could be the next Lazarus too.!! great reward for Mark . and lets hope Cullen can keep all those red blood cells in order ?? Enjoy the racing !! as regards the grimson/trainor team success. I think i replied on that thread that from what i have read,Epo type products that boost red cells,are given over a period of time,and require very regular blood tests taken after horses are worked,so as to monitor their blood and not overload the horses body with the level of treatment and cause it harm. Horses are given other treatments in conjunction.They say red cells last 100 days don't they. So a drop off in form of the stable you have referred to wouldn't happen overnight.Maybe in 3 months times may give a better indication if they keep them in the retention barn for that long. Thats why i said 48 hour retention barns are ineffective against such practices. Edited July 5, 2021 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Can you explain Spankem's 2020 season form? juiced up? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Hunter a mile is 1609m not 1690 metres!!!! That's why the race time was GREATER than the mile rate!!!!! You must have signed up to @the galah's form analysis service. @Newmarket, @paleface adios, @hunterthepunter, @Brodie and @the galah you need to take your anti-anything All Stars murphy blinds off and do some proper form analysis. don't know what your smoking in that pipe chief .but is it bit early in the day lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 5, 2021 Share Posted July 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: It's obvious from reading this forum that many who believe they think they know why have no idea why. I was on the internet Chief, and trying to find an aftershave! I was looking for Blue Stratos but this thing called BLUE MAGIC came up! Read the articles and no it couldve have involved them?? Too professional for that?? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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