Livamol 3 yr old Trot - 7 Oct 2020 - Come in @theGalah!

[Chief Stipe]

WANNA PLAY WITH ME - Stewards questioned driver T Williams regarding his lack of vigour in the early and middle stages of the run home and after doing so issued a charge under Rule 868(2) alleging he had failed to take all reasonable and permissible measures to ensure the filly was given full opportunity to win the race. Mr Williams explained that his horse had raced keenly through the back straight on the final occasion and in his opinion peaked on its run soon after reaching the front in the early stages of the run home. Mr Williams said the horse had failed to respond to his encouragement when tried with the reins and then with the whip inside 60 metres and had conceded ground on the winner in this period. He said tonight's run had been significantly harder than her first up effort and against a better calibre of horse. A post-race veterinary examination revealed the horse to have a very high heart rate which remained at an elevated level for a considerable period. Trainer R Todd advised that he would be having blood tests taken in the morning which Stewards will follow up with. In light of this result Stewards elected not to proceed with a charge against Mr Williams but spoke with him regarding the expectation upon him to adequately pressure his runner when fighting out a finish.

[Chief Stipe]

 

[the galah]

Well my opinion is the horse knocked off half way up the straight because the driver was just sitting there. And that loss of momentum may have cost it the win as it never got going again.So i think to charge him is the right decision.

I say may have cost it the win,as i'm not convinced it wouldn't have stopped the last bit anyway,and the vet report after the race may explain why it failed to respond when williams belatedly realised he had made an error,but it transpired that it was too late, as the momentum was lost.

But its not reasonable to see a driver just sit there while the horse hes driving knocks off in a tight finish.It shouldn't be left to after the race for everyone to ask well if he had just asked it for a greater effort,would it have won.

Edited October 7, 2021 by the galah

[Gammalite]

Hehehe.... what a good one. The Galah will have good judgement, But Teaz (after getting stuck into the Saginaw bloke) should have a field day with this one . Top rated driver making an error thinking he had the leader covered.

Still ......his efforts weren't like he was trying to lose or help anyone else or anything , just a mis-judgement. Plenty of errors occur in races, as only one can win . 

Not like the 13th May race at Auckland with Dylan Ferguson completely driving his 2 yearold against the older horses for the complete benefit of MeetmeinSorrento , (driven by Zac Butcher on that one occasion). Classy Operator may be the horse name , but surely not Fergusons nicname on that occasion.

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, the galah said:

Well my opinion is the horse knocked off half way up the straight because the driver was just sitting there. And that loss of momentum may have cost it the win as it never got going again.So i think to charge him is the right decision.

The Stewards elected not to proceed with the charge.

[Dougie]

42 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Hehehe.... what a good one. The Galah will have good judgement, But Teaz (after getting stuck into the Saginaw bloke) should have a field day with this one . Top rated driver making an error thinking he had the leader covered.

Still ......his efforts weren't like he was trying to lose or help anyone else or anything , just a mis-judgement. Plenty of errors occur in races, as only one can win . 

Not like the 13th May race at Auckland with Dylan Ferguson completely driving his 2 yearold against the older horses for the complete benefit of MeetmeinSorrento , (driven by Zac Butcher on that one occasion). Classy Operator may be the horse name , but surely not Fergusons nicname on that occasion.

Error/mis-judgement yes as his horse under it's own steam got a neck in front but when the horse on the inside starting to level up again TW was late/slow in reacting....  so error on a very hot fav has no consequences ?? yes not the crime of the century but when will they realize punter confidence in the suits and participants actually does affect turnover, somehow I think they don't really care as long as they have a job and can pick and choose the drivers to fine or suspend. 

[Gammalite]

11 minutes ago, Dougie said:

Error/mis-judgement yes as his horse under it's own steam got a neck in front but when the horse on the inside starting to level up again TW was late/slow in reacting....  so error on a very hot fav has no consequences ?? yes not the crime of the century but when will they realize punter confidence in the suits and participants actually does affect turnover, somehow I think they don't really care as long as they have a job and can pick and choose the drivers to fine or suspend. 

Error and mis-judgement s occur every race.

How many times do you see someone rattling home late to just miss? Happens all the time . And plenty of times at the gallops a jockey gets the lead too soon in the home straight , and the horse clocks off , and gets beaten late.

I see that happen every week-end. that was sort of an error too by the jockey. Doesn't happen as often at the trots , so this Tim Williams incident is standing out like dogs balls.....

Drivers getting suspended and fined is NOT something I like ..... or think solves anything . Unless they cause 'Interference' to another runner and stop it's chances of winning. (Williams and Ross Cameron in the Saginaw incident recently did not cause interference) so why suspend them?

Take a look at Sydney gallops, (from experienced jocks) .......

BOWMAN (winter last year bowling A.Adkins (very badly injured) on Hot'n'Hazy over) and BERRY (this year recently bowled Xtremetime over severely injuring Avdulla) near killing fellow jocks !!!   ( the opposition horse dead on both occasions) They got 6 weeks and 8 weeks suspension each . Should be 6 months each IMO, and pay restitution to their peers. Bit more serious than worrying about who was favourite on the punt or not ??  or whether you have a party or not like Kah .

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

The Stewards elected not to proceed with the charge.

Well that is just another poor decision in my opinion.

They charge Negus at timaru for trying too hard,but they don't proceed witha charge when a stinking hot favorite eases up because the driver wants to be kind to it. You only have to look at the horses body language half way down the straight to see it thought the job was done.

And when you think about it,while relevant,why give so much weight to  the horse having a slow recovery post race. Its clear from the video the main reason it knocked off was driver error. 20 more metres of driving it out to  ensure a possible win wasn't going to change its post race recovery rate.

The reason R cameron on saginaw was charged was not because he wasn't trying,but was to ensure the perception of integrity was maintained in the minds of the betting public.So why doesn't that apply here?

So given the contradictory outcomes, one can unfortunately conclude williams has been shown favoritism, based on his prominence as a driver.

[Gammalite]

47 minutes ago, the galah said:

to ensure the perception of integrity was maintained in the minds of the betting public.So why doesn't that apply here?

yes Dougie was saying the same thing. What should the penalty be then in that case ?

Last weekends double Randwick Group 1 jockey Regan Bayliss got Three weeks suspension ???? yesterday at Gosford on a scrubby old Maiden R4, that he rode 'hard and well ', all up the home straight , and sat up 5m out.

Poor bugger got beaten a nose .  just a tragic state of affairs for him. (3 weeks with lots of Top rides 'lost 'now) Is that for public perception ? bloody mean. harsh beyond words. I would of been quite happy with his effort in that race on a scrubby maiden. 

Back to Tim then, should it be 3 weeks ? (or like Bayliss got,),,, or 3 months like Teaz wants Ross Cameron to get lol...)  for public perception of course !!! on that rank outsider. did Ross get a suspension in the end? 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Gammalite
correction

[the galah]

20 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

yes Dougie was saying the same thing. What should the penalty be then in that case ?

Last weekends double Randwick Group 1 jockey Regan Bayliss got Three weeks suspension ???? yesterday at Gosford on a scrubby old Maiden R4, that he rode 'hard and well ', all up the home straight , and sat up 5m out.

Poor bugger got beaten a nose .  just a tragic state of affairs for him. (3 weeks with lots of Top rides 'lost 'now) Is that for public perception ? bloody mean. harsh beyond words. I would of been quite happy with his effort in that race on a scrubby maiden. 

Back to Tim then, should it be 3 weeks ? (or like Bayliss got,),,, or 3 months like Teaz wants Ross Cameron to get lol...)  for public perception of course !!! on that rank outsider. did Ross get a suspension in the end? 

Well williams has lots of drives,so i would assume he would have been looking at a 2 or 3 day suspension for his error of judgment.

As to penalties. I think they should have some type of system in place where if  someone is charged,and there is disputed facts,that the riu  and the persons charged can get together and negotiate an agreed set of facts and the riu can offer a plea bargain deal to the person charged .There often seems a waste of money and time involved for both parties when hearing cases,when that could be avoided by negotiation beforehand.

Edited October 8, 2021 by the galah

[Gammalite]

2 minutes ago, the galah said:

As to penalties. I think they should have some type of system in place where if  someone is charged,and there is disputed facts,that the riu  and the persons charged can get together and negotiate an agreed set of facts and offer a plea bargain deal to the person charged.There often seems a waste of money and time involved for both parties when hearing cases,when that could be avoided by negotiation beforehand.

Yes indeed . Penalties are always controversial , even all the footy codes have trouble all the time , even with set rules of play. One week or 2 for the bad tackle? . Red card or sin-bin for the high shot? . 

I prefer the Interference suspension personally. Herlihy avoided that KRUG drive suspension that time , when tightening first corner at Alex Park caused a galloper on inside , so a bit lucky to get away with it.

With the NZ Cup approaching , Does anyone remember CAMELOT winning for Robin Butt ? 

a very solid win in 4.06,  that had Gammalite struggling a long way out, and fin near last. George Shand on BORANA caused a massive Pile -up when pushing out down the back. Down went Diamond Moose, Enterprise and 3 others, Paul Young near catapaulted into orbit .....  

George got 4 weeks for that , but blamed the horse not steering well lol. (as you always do naturally ) fun times.

Was a Bit more 'serious' in my mind than a horse clocking off early like Tim's did though....lol

[Dougie]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

Well williams has lots of drives,so i would assume he would have been looking at a 2 or 3 day suspension for his error of judgment.

As to penalties. I think they should have some type of system in place where if  someone is charged,and there is disputed facts,that the riu  and the persons charged can get together and negotiate an agreed set of facts and the riu can offer a plea bargain deal to the person charged .There often seems a waste of money and time involved for both parties when hearing cases,when that could be avoided by negotiation beforehand.

What I dislike is stewards listen to some absolute BS from some drivers but the same BS from other and always lessor drivers they ignore... 

 

I love the Williamsons, but lets look at Winning Bones a new horse to Matty's stable.... good race Sept 2 first run for Matty, not so good 2nd up 7 days  later with Matty saying horse didn't back up after 7 days... horse runs again 7 days later good run but slow time but yet they were happy to back up 7 days later....better run 10 days later but then poor runs 4 days later then 3 days later........... why on earth are they backing a horse up 4 then 3 days after publicly stating the horse didn't/doesn't back up.... the last start at Oamaru Matty explained the horse wasn't suited to being parked--- Matty moved from 5 back the fence to sit parked.... WTF are u doing that on a horse that's suspect at backing up.

I didn't back it but for me that's out and out incompetence and decent stewards would be questing this from a punting point of view plus a horse welfare point of view.

[Guest CrossCodes]

1 hour ago, Dougie said:

What I dislike is stewards listen to some absolute BS from some drivers but the same BS from other and always lessor drivers they ignore... 

 

I love the Williamsons, but lets look at Winning Bones a new horse to Matty's stable.... good race Sept 2 first run for Matty, not so good 2nd up 7 days  later with Matty saying horse didn't back up after 7 days... horse runs again 7 days later good run but slow time but yet they were happy to back up 7 days later....better run 10 days later but then poor runs 4 days later then 3 days later........... why on earth are they backing a horse up 4 then 3 days after publicly stating the horse didn't/doesn't back up.... the last start at Oamaru Matty explained the horse wasn't suited to being parked--- Matty moved from 5 back the fence to sit parked.... WTF are u doing that on a horse that's suspect at backing up.

I didn't back it but for me that's out and out incompetence and decent stewards would be questing this from a punting point of view plus a horse welfare point of view.

Matty doesn’t seem to have inherited the family training ability. 
Winning Bones as you mentioned, as well as Von Art have both been flogged lately, going around in every possible race.

His strike rate as a trainer is terrible in comparison to his brothers Nathan and Brad, and of course his father Phil.

I feel he needs to know his lane and just stick to being a driver, of which he is very good, the training on the other hand leaves a lot to be desired.

[hunterthepunter]

1 hour ago, CrossCodes said:

Matty doesn’t seem to have inherited the family training ability. 
Winning Bones as you mentioned, as well as Von Art have both been flogged lately, going around in every possible race.

His strike rate as a trainer is terrible in comparison to his brothers Nathan and Brad, and of course his father Phil.

I feel he needs to know his lane and just stick to being a driver, of which he is very good, the training on the other hand leaves a lot to be desired.

what's your stats as a trainer then?

[Rangatira]

12 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

what's your stats as a trainer then?

Why is that relevant?

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, the galah said:

You only have to look at the horses body language half way down the straight to see it thought the job was done.

I tell ya what , there is a SWITCH OFF disease going around with the trotters.?

Tonight at Melton R8, in a 20k trot Anthony Butt and Kate Gath got to experience that TIM WILLIAMS feeling !!! 

Just Like WannaPlayWithMe didn't want to play late in race for Tim, 2 of the Best trotters ever seen in Aus and NZ refused to go on with the job either !!!!!!!!!!  the darndest thing ! we were just talking about.

TORNADO VALLEY was 5 lengths clear of field home bend and just dug the toes in, much to the distress of Kate , and ran 5 lengths second. Very strange. He would of passed $1,000,000 earnings if won as well.

And the Gammalite fav trotter TOUGH MONARCH was even worse !! refused to go for Ant's and was 40m back 5th.

[Nowornever]

17 hours ago, Dougie said:

What I dislike is stewards listen to some absolute BS from some drivers but the same BS from other and always lessor drivers they ignore... 

 

I love the Williamsons, but lets look at Winning Bones a new horse to Matty's stable.... good race Sept 2 first run for Matty, not so good 2nd up 7 days  later with Matty saying horse didn't back up after 7 days... horse runs again 7 days later good run but slow time but yet they were happy to back up 7 days later....better run 10 days later but then poor runs 4 days later then 3 days later........... why on earth are they backing a horse up 4 then 3 days after publicly stating the horse didn't/doesn't back up.... the last start at Oamaru Matty explained the horse wasn't suited to being parked--- Matty moved from 5 back the fence to sit parked.... WTF are u doing that on a horse that's suspect at backing up.

I didn't back it but for me that's out and out incompetence and decent stewards would be questing this from a punting point of view plus a horse welfare point of view.

It is almost as incompetent as some of the questions they ask when the horse wins with average from.  I see this a lot in the reports a 50/50 stand start horse will win after finally going away from a stand and the question will be asked why the improved run? FFS if you can not see the horse has been breaking at the start and losing its chance and then has finally managed to get away for a change and win then you are in the wrong job!

[the galah]

11 hours ago, Gammalite said:

I tell ya what , there is a SWITCH OFF disease going around with the trotters.?

Tonight at Melton R8, in a 20k trot Anthony Butt and Kate Gath got to experience that TIM WILLIAMS feeling !!! 

Just Like WannaPlayWithMe didn't want to play late in race for Tim, 2 of the Best trotters ever seen in Aus and NZ refused to go on with the job either !!!!!!!!!!  the darndest thing ! we were just talking about.

TORNADO VALLEY was 5 lengths clear of field home bend and just dug the toes in, much to the distress of Kate , and ran 5 lengths second. Very strange. He would of passed $1,000,000 earnings if won as well.

And the Gammalite fav trotter TOUGH MONARCH was even worse !! refused to go for Ant's and was 40m back 5th.

Just had a look at that."from travelling chocolates to boiled lollies" is how dan milecki described tornado valley last night. Looked like maybe his lungs aren't in as good a shape as they used to be,but he has had a wonderful racing career.

I can remember following him here when he used to be driven by his owner/trainer terry mcmillan.Often a frustrating watch as you always thought the horse kept something up his sleeve,and that showed when gerard o'reilly got significant improvement out of him when he drove him.He's one of those horses that has shown if you don't flog or drug them when they are young,they can have longevity.

Edited October 8, 2021 by the galah

[Gammalite]

On 10/9/2021 at 7:37 AM, the galah said:

Just had a look at that."from travelling chocolates to boiled lollies" is how dan milecki described tornado valley last night

Mr Galah ,  after the disappointments with this Tim Williams trotter pulling up on him , and Tornado Valley and Tough Monarch doing the same at Melton on Friday. Did you catch the GROUP 1 at Bendigo Saturday night ????

A gammalite Favourite the tiny PINK GALAHS (5-1 you beauty) winning the Big mile for the second year running !! TROTTERS redemption ! after a couple of bad nights. AND 1.54.2 as well not too shabby.

2nd was the hot fav, also a very small horse nz bred by Majestic Son,,,  MAJESTUOSO and Kate Gath . 

Loved it !! after the post ,all the way around to the back straight Kate was giving Matty Craven a Gobful as seemingly not impressed, as he only won by a nose with a exceptionally well timed thrust , laying in on Kate a bit !! hahahaha Group driving at it's Best !!!!!!!   

[Ludwig]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:44 PM, CrossCodes said:

Matty doesn’t seem to have inherited the family training ability. 
Winning Bones as you mentioned, as well as Von Art have both been flogged lately, going around in every possible race.

His strike rate as a trainer is terrible in comparison to his brothers Nathan and Brad, and of course his father Phil.

I feel he needs to know his lane and just stick to being a driver, of which he is very good, the training on the other hand leaves a lot to be desired.

He hasn't been training as long as them . I say, give him time and as the quality of his horses improve, so will the results