holy ravioli Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 'Although I'm not sure he is the best rider for Nature Strip as he doesn't seem to settle for JMac much the same as Verry Elleegant doesn't. ' Laters.....the Everest and now the Melbourne Cup!...there's some good judges around!Bol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: Although I'm not sure he is the best rider for Nature Strip as he doesn't seem to settle for JMac much the same as Verry Elleegant doesn't. ' Get a life! Verry Elleegant in its last 3 or 4 starts has behaved completely different. I suggest that 90% of that has been a change in training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Get a life! Verry Elleegant in its last 3 or 4 starts has behaved completely different. I suggest that 90% of that has been a change in training. So gracious!-2 of the biggest races in the world and you're still grasping for straws. Sometimes people get things wrong.Sorry about that...Chief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, holy ravioli said: So gracious!-2 of the biggest races in the world and you're still grasping for straws. Sometimes people get things wrong.Sorry about that...Chief! You are an absolute pain in the arse. I expressed my opinion - it isnt right or wrong. Unlike you I observe and take note of how horses behave. Verry Elleegant has been totally different in her last 3 or 4 starts. Many finer judges than me have observed that. The question was why. No straw clutching at all. That's why I reviewed her lead up to last year's cup and this year's and changed my mind about leaving her out of my first 3. McDonald had very little to do with her change in behaviour. Full credit to Waller, her track worker and Damian Lane in the lead up races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 ' Prefer a bit more give in the track and I have a nagging feeling that she may be starting to think about the breeding barn.' 'Many finer judges than me have observed that. '...really...like who! Thomas got nothing on you fella. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 44 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: McDonald had very little to do with her change in behaviour. Full credit to Waller, her track worker and Damian Lane in the lead up races. Chief , i have said this before , Waller has given huge wraps to J Mac for the work he has done with Both VE and Nature strip in training , he rides both horses regularly in training . He is a large part of the change in behaviour . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 43 minutes ago, nomates said: Chief , i have said this before , Waller has given huge wraps to J Mac for the work he has done with Both VE and Nature strip in training , he rides both horses regularly in training . He is a large part of the change in behaviour . Waller gave huge wraps to the regular track worker too. But Lane must have played a part as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 1 hour ago, holy ravioli said: ' Prefer a bit more give in the track and I have a nagging feeling that she may be starting to think about the breeding barn.' 'Many finer judges than me have observed that. '...really...like who! Thomas got nothing on you fella. Yes I would have been more bullish if the track had more give in it. You clearly haven't had much experience around horses judging by the comments you make. Mares do suddenly switch off and early spring the odd race will be out of character. Even the most amateur of observers would have noted that the relaxed behaviour she had shown recently was significantly different to her previous runs. It even prompted Waller to fully vet her two starts ago. But perhaps she has taken an extra couple of runs to peak this spring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 But let's continue to distract from a brilliant win by what must be one of the best mares in history. What recent mare or any horse has won more group races over so many distances. But if you want to jump on @holy ravioli's bandwagon go for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But let's continue to distract from a brilliant win by what must be one of the best mares in history. What recent mare or any horse has won more group races over so many distances. But if you want to jump on @holy ravioli's bandwagon go for it. Won the Caulfield last year,set for the M.C this year 2 kiwis ,Australias best trainer and best jockey combine for their first M.C. win. Great training feat,great training feat. Grandstand commentators covered in.....egg. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But if you want to jump on @holy ravioli's bandwagon go for it. I'm not jumping on anyone's bandstand , you know that well enough , but you continue to say that JMac has had very little input into this mare's and NS change of attitude , which is incorrect , JM has been working with VE from her arrival from D Weir's stable , rode her raceday from day 1 , but not just on raceday but in regular trackwork , as he has with NS since the horse was xfered to C Waller . NS in particular never settled when in various stables prior to getting to CW's , and as i have said CW has given huge credit for the change in " attitude " in both to Jmac . And i'm sure that the track rider has played their part also . I'm not trying to detract from her fantastic win , i didn't back her but the minute she appeared i was yelling for her , so perhaps you need to jump off " your bandwagon " and put your feet firmly in the camp that everyone is entitled to an opinion . p.s. D Lane has ridden her twice , her last two starts prior to today , for a 3rd and a 4th , so i doubt he has played any great part in getting her to settle . 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) Was talking to Jumbo Didham recently ( our stables are adjacent) about our awful jockeys, and we both agreed that V.E was given an impossible task in the Cox. Not always confined to NZ, we agreed. But, reunited with J.M and watching her stand, serene and unflappable, in the parade , with her strapper scratching her nose, I just had to have a few dollars on. Not being a Thomass( !!!) but hadn't intended to back anything up till then. But she looked awesome, and so in control of the situation. And, the ride was superb. Half way round it was just a matter of how far. Edited November 2, 2021 by Freda 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 12 hours ago, holy ravioli said: Won the Caulfield last year,set for the M.C this year 2 kiwis ,Australias best trainer and best jockey combine for their first M.C. win. Great training feat,great training feat. Grandstand commentators covered in.....egg. So how much did you bet on Verry Elleegant? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Freda said: Was talking to Jumbo Didham recently ( our stables are adjacent) about our awful jockeys, and we both agreed that V.E was given an impossible task in the Cox. Not always confined to NZ, we agreed. So it's OK to bag Damian Lane? Her Cox Plate performance was flat and uncharacteristic of her hence Waller getting her fully vetted. Note your original impression was as follows. On 17/10/2021 at 11:00 AM, Freda said: I'd agree there, although who would be arrogant enough to second-guess Waller? Not me anyway. Hopefully she is AOK...even the 'mares in spring' situation might have a bearing, I'm not sure if Regumate can be used or not, there was some publicity a year or two back. And she is another year older, thinking of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I think you'll find it was her first-up in Vic that was a 'flat' run, after which she was found to have a minor issue or two, subsequently dealt with. In the Cox she was allowed to settle too far back to be a live show - IMO - although [ obviously ] she wouldn't want a gut-buster going forward. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Freda said: I think you'll find it was her first-up in Vic that was a 'flat' run, after which she was found to have a minor issue or two, subsequently dealt with. Correct but it was also intimated that she wasn't 100% in the Cox. McDonald basically said it wasn't until Saturday’s gallop that she was in her zone. 2 hours ago, Freda said: In the Cox she was allowed to settle too far back to be a live show - IMO - although [ obviously ] she wouldn't want a gut-buster going forward. She was given every chance in the Cox - a "gut buster" is hard to quantify. Certainly she had had the prep to be fully fit. The key though was to keep on with the plan of getting her to settle. Hunting her up to find a better position early would likely have undone that plan. IMO she was still a length or two off her best in the Cox for whatever reason. Waller believes it may have just taken a bit longer to get her fully fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 3, 2021 Share Posted November 3, 2021 Interesting comments from Chris Waller "11th hour decision start in Melbourne Cup": Waller said Verry Elleegant’s versatility was “her defining characteristic” although the trainer doubted the mare will start in a handicap race again. “I didn’t think she would carry the 57kg on Tuesday, especially being a mare,” Waller said. “For her to do that was an amazing effort. To try it again, it would be tricky as she is in the twilight of her career. “How long can she keep racing? What she is doing for a six-year-old is special, her legs are great, she is an equine athlete of the highest calibre. “If she is to race on, we need to make sure she can race at the elite level and I don’t think the autumn will be any problem. “But if at any stage she is showing us she is ready to be a mum, she will become a mum.” Verry Elleegant will be sent for a well-earned spell with Waller already thinking of her preparation towards the $4 million Longines Queen Elizabeth Stakes (2000m) at Royal Randwick during The Championships next autumn. This was the same event that Winx famously won her 33rd – and final – race in succession in 2019. On the same day, Waller also won the ATC Australian Oaks with a little-known filly called Verry Elleegant. Incredibly, as Winx retired, Waller had found his next champion although the trainer didn’t know it at the time. “Verry Elleegant was like a caged tiger, basically, when we first got her,” Waller said. “But through maturity she has developed into this beautiful horse that is putting her free spirit into her racing. “One of my trackwork riders, Chris Harwood, rides Verry Elleegant almost every day and he has helped harness this young girl that was a rough diamond into a beautiful swan as we saw at Flemington. “For Verry Elleegant to come along as Winx finished, who would have thought – lightning does strike twice.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waller said Verry Elleegant’s versatility was “her defining characteristic” although the trainer doubted the mare will start in a handicap race again. “I didn’t think she would carry the 57kg on Tuesday, especially being a mare,” Waller said. “For her to do that was an amazing effort. To try it again, it would be tricky as she is in the twilight of her career. “How long can she keep racing? What she is doing for a six-year-old is special, her legs are great, she is an equine athlete of the highest calibre. “If she is to race on, we need to make sure she can race at the elite level and I don’t think the autumn will be any problem. “But if at any stage she is showing us she is ready to be a mum, she will become a mum.” Verry Elleegant will be sent for a well-earned spell with Waller already thinking of her preparation towards the $4 million Longines Queen Elizabeth Stakes (2000m) at Royal Randwick during The Championships next autumn. This was the same event that Winx famously won her 33rd – and final – race in succession in 2019. On the same day, Waller also won the ATC Australian Oaks with a little-known filly called Verry Elleegant. Incredibly, as Winx retired, Waller had found his next champion although the trainer didn’t know it at the time. “Verry Elleegant was like a caged tiger, basically, when we first got her,” Waller said. “But through maturity she has developed into this beautiful horse that is putting her free spirit into her racing. “One of my trackwork riders, Chris Harwood, rides Verry Elleegant almost every day and he has helped harness this young girl that was a rough diamond into a beautiful swan as we saw at Flemington. “For Verry Elleegant to come along as Winx finished, who would have thought – lightning does strike twice.”
Gammalite Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 20 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: “For Verry Elleegant to come along as Winx finished, who would have thought – lightning does strike twice.” What a great trainer !! (mr Waller) thoroughly deserved . Lightning strikes !! you bet. Am sure Chief loves Jmac now too !! (hopefully) with the Melbourne Cup ticked off the Jmac resume' . Today we see JMac having a gallop with the 'DAISIES' in the Oaks . maybe the Arabs with No 2 look set for that one though. Other rides are ZING (big chance), SATIN LOVE, DJUKON, ESPIONA, WRITTEN BEAUTY, and ROBODIRA. could be 4 wins ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: JMac having a gallop with the 'DAISIES' in the Oaks . maybe the Arabs with No 2 look set for that one though. Other rides are ZING (big chance), SATIN LOVE, DJUKON, DJUKON !!! thank you very much !! don't you love JMac Chief ???? what a rider........ AND take a look at all those Blinkers marking the First FOUR for you at a 7k divvie !! I got 10% only but you just know those Blinkers work !! ask THomarse. watch out for some more 'Blinkers ' today Chief ! I know you love them...... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 ESpiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Espiona ! the next Winx ? go JMac !!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gammalite said: ESpiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Espiona ! the next Winx ? go JMac !!!! She looks a bit special , lots to learn , ran about a little at the top of the straight , but boy she has a motor . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: Am sure Chief loves Jmac now too !! (hopefully) with the Melbourne Cup ticked off the Jmac resume' . FFS @Gammalite I've posted many times saying how good JMac is over the years. That's not to say he doesn't always get it right or go through brief patches out of form. For example the one time he rode a horse for me he misjudged it. That said the difference this year which set it up for VE was the fact the favourite Incentivise was always going to head for the front from out wide and the others weren't going to make it easy. Hence seven abreast heading down the straight making it perfect for VE to spend nothing and get over to be one out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: 2 hours ago, Gammalite said: FFS @Gammalite I've posted many times saying how good JMac is over the years. Sorry Chief , i was reading your debate with Rav. I think everyone knows he does a GREAT job !!!!! My personal opinion is they race WAY TOO TIGHT in Sydney , all the time, and now he is in Melbourne , it is WAAAAY easier. And he is collecting the profits hand over fist. They seem to give each other slightly more room in MEL than SYD up the running. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Sorry Chief , i was reading your debate with Rav. I think everyone knows he does a GREAT job !!!!! My personal opinion is they race WAY TOO TIGHT in Sydney , all the time, and now he is in Melbourne , it is WAAAAY easier. And he is collecting the profits hand over fist. They seem to give each other slightly more room in MEL than SYD up the running. IMO Flemington is a fantastic track and gives every horse a chance. I have real concerns about Rosehill and Randwick. They cut out and often have a bias so the jocks are all fighting for the same piece of turf. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 At the moment he is the best in Aus , the ride on Zaaki was fantastic , horse a little bit fresh with a month between runs , and was a little keen the whole way but JMac got the balance perfect , just fast enough to keep the horse happy whilst keeping something in reserve , beautiful hands . New record for winners over the carnival , 10 , great achievement . Could he be the best ever , maybe , but certainly at the moment IMO he is at the top of the tree in Aus . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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