NZ cup carnival in the future

[Joe Bloggs]

Yep, the old adage, feed em big and work em bigger, Geoff Murphy springs to mind, he was a massive feeder, only the best stood up to his methods, they worked, but all his horses were treated with respect, as were ours, rugs on in cold and wet and rugs off in sunshine........Jack Denham was a huge feeder, and 6 bales of straw in each box, no rugs in that joint and it got really cold and wet out at Rosehill, he was a cruel bastard in other ways which I wont go into here........FWIW D E Reed told me about Showgate, best he ever rode he said, I think we all would have loved her in a box at our place, she might not have won what she did as we wouldn't have done to her what GT did, but I could live with that!

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

Murray or Gai would never have treated a horse like that....and the discussion hasn't referred to her actual 'training'   i.e. workload.

It was a comparison of "treatments".  Isn't it just a difference in perception what is good versus bad?

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

D E Reed told me about Showgate, best he ever rode he said, I think we all would have loved her in a box at our place, she might not have won what she did as we wouldn't have done to her what GT did, but I could live with that!

R J "Bob" Skelton said Show Gate was a "machine" and would have competed with Sunline.

[Joe Bloggs]

And Bob would know, he rode champions.

[muzenza365]

18 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Yep, the old adage, feed em big and work em bigger, Geoff Murphy springs to mind, he was a massive feeder, only the best stood up to his methods, they worked, but all his horses were treated with respect, as were ours, rugs on in cold and wet and rugs off in sunshine........Jack Denham was a huge feeder, and 6 bales of straw in each box, no rugs in that joint and it got really cold and wet out at Rosehill, he was a cruel bastard in other ways which I wont go into here........FWIW D E Reed told me about Showgate, best he ever rode he said, I think we all would have loved her in a box at our place, she might not have won what she did as we wouldn't have done to her what GT did, but I could live with that!

He got off Showgate to ride Zarnia,the reason was he was taking L Pratts daughter out at the time,Showgate broke Zarnia's heart in that race and from memory she never won another race 

Does anyone think the McKees would have put Sunline in a 3200m race?

There are so many stories about the champion mare,one i remember well was Glyn Tucker had a show called Turf Talk and he compared Show Gate v La Mer, he went for La Mer as he believe she was better sprinter. Anyway he went on to say that she was turned out in the lush paddocks in Otago. Well we were going to the races a short time later and were early, so went around to see her. No answer at the door so walked down to the stables and found her in a box and i will not tell you the condition of the stable . but we did fill her water bucket, It was enough to bring a tear to your eye.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, muzenza365 said:

No answer at the door so walked down to the stables and found her in a box and i will not tell you the condition of the stable . but we did fill her water bucket, It was enough to bring a tear to your eye.

Did she have her name written on her rump?

No wonder the industry in NZ is in free fall.  Not only do most of you bag those succeeding now but you are bagging those from the past.

Hell it wasn't too long ago on BOAY that many of the same posters were bagging Te Akau for the amount of money they spend on customised feed, medication and vets!!!

[Joe Bloggs]

Nothing to do with free fall, free speech by eye witness's no less, praise where it's due and scorn same, the racing demise can be summed up plus vite, shocking admin, no transparency, no governance, and failed or non-existent fiduciary duty. If mainstream media had of done their job and outed those responsible it might have been a different outcome.....

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

No wonder the industry in NZ is in free fall.  Not only do most of you bag those succeeding now but you are bagging those from the past.

Hell it wasn't too long ago on BOAY that many of the same posters were bagging Te Akau for the amount of money they spend on customised feed, medication and vets!!!

Think you're over-reacting Chief. I have been very impressed by the attitude of all the posters here on this thread, and the care and compassion they all obviously have for the main  instrument of the industry. The horse itself.

Many are describing things they've seen, and what's wrong with that ? you can't help what has happened in the past. But why bury head in sand ? Is good to chat about improvements made to horse care, and training attitudes.

We all use to train or race harder with whips ,etc as well but that was the way it was done (last century) is great to see todays horse-people are condemning some of yesteryears actions , like the Showgate general care stuff , whip stuff, and more.

I think this will help the Industry prosper again , rather than free-fall as you might be thinking.  

[Chief Stipe]

48 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Think you're over-reacting Chief. I have been very impressed by the attitude of all the posters here on this thread, and the care and compassion they all obviously have for the main  instrument of the industry. The horse itself.

Many are describing things they've seen, and what's wrong with that ? you can't help what has happened in the past. But why bury head in sand ? Is good to chat about improvements made to horse care, and training attitudes.

We all use to train or race harder with whips ,etc as well but that was the way it was done (last century) is great to see todays horse-people are condemning some of yesteryears actions , like the Showgate general care stuff , whip stuff, and more.

I think this will help the Industry prosper again , rather than free-fall as you might be thinking.  

I disagree.  If those at the coalface spent their time hammering the administrators then perhaps the freefall will cease.

Ironically the state of our "premier" tracks is appalling from an animal welfare perspective.

I also hear that the attrition rate on the Cambridge AWT is a comparative quantum above any other track in thw country.  What is the point of them?

Every week we see announcements from Australia of investments in new tracks, track renovations and increased training facilities.  All alongside substantial increases in Stakes.  Even Queensland is doing it.

[curious]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Did she have her name written on her rump?

No wonder the industry in NZ is in free fall.  Not only do most of you bag those succeeding now but you are bagging those from the past.

Hell it wasn't too long ago on BOAY that many of the same posters were bagging Te Akau for the amount of money they spend on customised feed, medication and vets!!!

Don't recall any posters here bagging anyone, letalone TA for using training and animal welfare best practice. If they did, I suspect most posters would have been bagging them. As Lance O'Sullivan said in an interview I saw a while back, if you've got the cattle, anyone can train them (that's a paraphrase from memory).

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, curious said:

Don't recall any posters here bagging anyone, letalone TA for using training and animal welfare best practice.

Then your powers of  recall are deteriorating.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I disagree.  If those at the coalface spent their time hammering the administrators then perhaps the freefall will cease.

Ironically the state of our "premier" tracks is appalling from an animal welfare perspective.

I also hear that the attrition rate on the Cambridge AWT is a comparative quantum above any other track in thw country.  What is the point of them?

Fair enough , You do need reasonable administration to run things. The trouble is in Nz (and Oz ) even at the very top level ,Which is in fact the Government of the Nation(s),  seems to attract massive amounts of criticism for one reason or another. 

You still have to be optimistic that a lot of Racing Clubs really want to supply a product that we can all enjoy. can't be all bad.? 

Very sorry if the tracks AWT are a welfare issue. I hope the 'Attrition' you mention is just people not wanting to train /race on that surface , and not actually anything going wrong with the horse.  Guess it will just shut down if Not supported just like anything else. 

I was meaning earlier, there is still a huge amount of horse loving people around the place. The improved attitudes towards animal welfare and their care and comfort ( like being shown in this thread)  will help keep the horse fans attracted. Maybe still participate as an owner or even just a supporter enjoying a nice day at the races, knowing the horses are in Great Trainers hands. 

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Very sorry if the tracks AWT are a welfare issue. I hope the 'Attrition' you mention is just people not wanting to train /race on that surface , and not actually anything going wrong with the horse.  Guess it will just shut down if Not supported just like anything else. 

I've heard 3 horses a week are being injured.  Will be hard to corroborate that but I suspect there are track grooming issues.

Early rumours were you didn't have to dig far to find the asphalt road.

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I've heard 3 horses a week are being injured.  Will be hard to corroborate that but I suspect there are track grooming issues.

Early rumours were you didn't have to dig far to find the asphalt road.

They only had to 'dig up' the phone number for any Toowoomba trainer or the club itself, then ask ''Why did you dig your track up''? No-one bothered, and doesn't that ring alarm bells? something fishy? a large snapper, or a cod and chips in a brown paper bag perhaps? It actually doesn't smell, it stinks, but it does show up how many fools there are in that northern cartel eh?

[Doomed]

9 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

They only had to 'dig up' the phone number for any Toowoomba trainer or the club itself, then ask ''Why did you dig your track up''? No-one bothered, and doesn't that ring alarm bells? something fishy? a large snapper, or a cod and chips in a brown paper bag perhaps? It actually doesn't smell, it stinks, but it does show up how many fools there are in that northern cartel eh?

What is the northern cartel? Surely it has been embraced even more enthusiastically in the South? It is talked of as the saviour of Southern racing and the best $15m ever spent.

[Freda]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

What is the northern cartel? Surely it has been embraced even more enthusiastically in the South? It is talked of as the saviour of Southern racing and the best $15m ever spent.

Certain high profile trainers and breeders in the Waikato, is ' the northern cartel '  by inference. 

As far as southern trainers, one or two were extremely positive and enthusiastic,  some were take-it-or-leave-it , a few were strongly opposed. 

Beats me how closing down popular and cost-effective meetings in favour of AWT racing is going to be 'the saviour ' of Sth Island racing, but hey, what would I know?

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

What is the northern cartel? Surely it has been embraced even more enthusiastically in the South? It is talked of as the saviour of Southern racing and the best $15m ever spent.

Bought to you by the same copy paste delinquents who haven't been able to fix anything or bring anything innovative or useful into the sport in all their time at the helm , so we shouldn't be expecting much. 

I'd love to say things will get worse before getting better   but they look like they are going from worse to worser!

Still love to see the betting figures on these surfaces, hopefully they'll bring them out soon to show me I'm totally wrong about them.

 

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

Bought to you by the same copy paste delinquents who haven't been able to fix anything or bring anything innovative or useful into the sport in all their time at the helm , so we shouldn't be expecting much. 

I'd love to say things will get worse before getting better   but they look like they are going from worse to worser!

Still love to see the betting figures on these surfaces, hopefully they'll bring them out soon to show me I'm totally wrong about them.

 

They certainly do their level best to boost numbers at Cambridge. They split races at the drop of a hat, whereas they hate doing that in the South at the best of times. Lots of ballots at Cromwell this weekend, and interesting to see only one horse at Otaki and Wanganui is higher rated than the Cromwell Cup top weight. If the South could just come up with a couple of decent jockeys and get their programming right things could tick away quite well down there.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

They certainly do their level best to boost numbers at Cambridge. They split races at the drop of a hat, whereas they hate doing that in the South at the best of times. Lots of ballots at Cromwell this weekend, and interesting to see only one horse at Otaki and Wanganui is higher rated than the Cromwell Cup top weight. If the South could just come up with a couple of decent jockeys and get their programming right things could tick away quite well down there.

Very true , but you know by now everything is done for 4 or 5 stables from the Waikato