Are there any positives for the industry?

[Huey]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

You only have to look at the so called champion of positividdy and what that has done to the country.  Such is the danger of believing the propaganda.

Yep and we have the same posidividdy occuring within racing and its not happening.

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Huey said:

Your other observations are so very correct, however the need for a united front within racing to see those observations happen is in my view the very reason they won't happen and the industry is doomed.

That's because there isn't any leadership amongst stakeholders and there may not be until self-interest bites them in the arse.  The other aspect that is deferring action is something that a lot of New Zealanders are weighing up - Australia as a horse racing destination looks so much better!

Hell even if you were a hobby five horse trainer imagine the lifestyle of touring the Ozzie bush and country meetings for 6 months of the year with a chance to make some real money!

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Huey said:

Yep and we have the same posidividdy occuring within racing and its not happening.

Of course it isn't working.  "Oh you are just being negative.  Be positive and get with the programme."  "Yeah but hang on you're describing how beautiful the rain looks while I'm drowning!"

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, nomates said:

I've tried to not be negative and find one thing that i could say, " this is something that will be good for the industry going forward " , nada , which doesn't bode well for the future. 

Big job for the whoever replaces Saundry , not only trying to get things going forward but having to undoe all Saundry's mess. 

Someone pointed me to another site where a goose is saying there is no room for negativity, we are chronic naysayers and that there is a lot of positivity in NZ racing......I repeat he's a goose, and that's being polite, it's that apathy that's got us to where we are, it's fine for a select few the majority not so much, what a shame we vent our feelings, and if there was a royal commission called, as I've said before, the queue to vent would be a long one and if it was a real commission, heads would roll.......BTW, does NZ have an extradition treaty with OZ/UK......just saying.

[Huey]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's because there isn't any leadership amongst stakeholders and there may not be until self-interest bites them in the arse.  The other aspect that is deferring action is something that a lot of New Zealanders are weighing up - Australia as a horse racing destination looks so much better!

Hell even if you were a hobby five horse trainer imagine the lifestyle of touring the Ozzie bush and country meetings for 6 months of the year with a chance to make some real money!

I think alot of it comes down to where the hurt is occuring and thats at the bottom end at the moment, there are a number of the bigger outfits who are going ok (not great but ok) whereas the bottom end is really starting to drop out, the pain will come for everyone though its only a matter of time with an industry run as poorly as this has been for years...one cannot stop the inevitable.

[curious]

On 7/02/2022 at 4:50 PM, Huey said:

These are just a few, but apart from Dave E. saying this is the best crop of yearlings he has ever seen are there any other positives in the industry anyone can think of?

I'll give you one. It's called the horse. You know, the ones that nicker when you walk in the yard in the morning and say "what are we doing today boss? Pretty warm. Be a nice day for a swim. Oh, and after that what's for breakfast?"  Then, on Saturday they leap on the float and say "where are we racing today? Hope the track's not as hard as it was last time". Then go out there and bust their butt to provide entertainment for all participants and because they love racing. They don't know and don't care if they are going round for 2 grand or 2 mil. Their courage, and willingness and the way they learn and even their occasional naughty tricks are all a positive. That's why many of us are here whatever we think of what the powers that be are doing or not. In the end, that's what will keep the game going. The horses.

[Ludwig]

16 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Someone pointed me to another site where a goose is saying there is no room for negativity, we are chronic naysayers and that there is a lot of positivity in NZ racing......I repeat he's a goose, and that's being polite, it's that apathy that's got us to where we are, it's fine for a select few the majority not so much, what a shame we vent our feelings, and if there was a royal commission called, as I've said before, the queue to vent would be a long one and if it was a real commission, heads would roll.......BTW, does NZ have an extradition treaty with OZ/UK......just saying.

That goose and his co owners have got their heads seriously buried in the sand, and becoming offensive to any who dare question their judgement 

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, curious said:

I'll give you one. It's called the horse. You know, the ones that nicker when you walk in the yard in the morning and say "what are we doing today boss? Pretty warm. Be a nice day for a swim. Oh, and after that what's for breakfast?"  Then, on Saturday they leap on the float and say "where are we racing today? Hope the track's not as hard as it was last time". Then go out there and bust their butt to provide entertainment for all participants and because they love racing. They don't know and don't care if they are going round for 2 grand or 2 mil. Their courage, and willingness and the way they learn and even their occasional naughty tricks are all a positive. That's why many of us are here whatever we think of what the powers that be are doing or not. In the end, that's what will keep the game going. The horses.

Yet your recent gripe when you attended a meeting was that they didn't have a big enough selection of beer?

[curious]

20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yet your recent gripe when you attended a meeting was that they didn't have a big enough selection of beer?

They didn't. Nor soft drinks.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, curious said:

They didn't. Nor soft drinks.

So there were no mixers for the spirits?  Did the reason why you were there complain?  As in your horse?

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Ludwig said:

That goose and his co owners have got their heads seriously buried in the sand, and becoming offensive to any who dare question their judgement 

I'm a tad reluctant to engage in this line of discussion as it doesn't achieve anything.  However as many of you probably realise by now my judgement is questioned all the time and I take it on the chin or throw a decent punch back.  If I take offence it isn't for long but it never results in censorship or banning.  

No one has been banned from BOAY and moderation is only engaged for extreme personal or offensive abuse.  Such abuse if extreme is hidden and if less so is sent to The Vent.

Contrary to many allegations I've never outed anyone online.  It still amazes me how some let their ego's reveal so much about themselves online that you would have to be living in a cave not to know who they are i.e. they out themselves.  Yet they are the one's who are the most critical of others and often the most abusive and demand anonymity.

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, curious said:

I'll give you one. It's called the horse. You know, the ones that nicker when you walk in the yard in the morning and say "what are we doing today boss? Pretty warm. Be a nice day for a swim. Oh, and after that what's for breakfast?"  Then, on Saturday they leap on the float and say "where are we racing today? Hope the track's not as hard as it was last time". Then go out there and bust their butt to provide entertainment for all participants and because they love racing. They don't know and don't care if they are going round for 2 grand or 2 mil. Their courage, and willingness and the way they learn and even their occasional naughty tricks are all a positive. That's why many of us are here whatever we think of what the powers that be are doing or not. In the end, that's what will keep the game going. The horses.

I agree with your post.  I've said that for years.  The horse is the only thing that differentiates us from any other sport or form of entertainment.  Even wagering/punting is no longer exclusive to horse racing.  Why we continue to think that we can compete or should compete with the hospitality industry amazes me.

I remember years and years of enjoyable on course experiences where there was only two or three beers on tap and one type of gin, whiskey and rum.  Plus the standard drinks for the kids.  Food - nothing fancy.  Something to grab and eat on the run as you went from parade ring to the grandstand or your favourite possie to watch the races.  Percy "Pie" Hurren only ever had two types of pies available at the Hoki races - mince or steak and sausage rolls.  No myriad of differentiated pie flavourings.  The Stapleton Sisters ran the sit down public lunch room where everyone got the same fare - a plate of one cream cupcake, one lamington, and a club sandwich.  Coffee or tea from a big urn.

I digress.....  The focus for the entire industry should go back to what differentiates it from every other option available today.  The horse!  Start with the tracks, then the handicapping, then the rider skills...keep more horses in the game which means more people involved.  Stakes will come as will attendance.  Remember the days when everyone either had a share in a horse or knew someone who did?  Accessibility was the key.

Remember when you could take your kids down to the stables and show them a horse and ask the trainer politely if they would let them pat one?  Sure OSH and drug contamination rules have stymied that but why can't you have a couple of tame ponies or proper horses that people can go and actually see and touch?  Smell the damn things and their dung.

Stop focusing on "The Party" where you can't compete week in week out - focus on the damn horse!!!!

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I digress.....  The focus for the entire industry should go back to what differentiates it from every other option available today.  The horse!  Start with the tracks, then the handicapping, then the rider skills...keep more horses in the game which means more people involved.  Stakes will come as will attendance.  Remember the days when everyone either had a share in a horse or knew someone who did?  Accessibility was the key.

 

Totally. My point exactly. We have that big positive and we need to sell it. I talked about horses going out there and trying hard and competing. They won't do that for long if you don't provide decent, fair and safe tracks and a handicapping and programming system that allows them to be competitive. And, the punters won't come to the party if the racing isn't competitive and nor will families and new generations of participants. Some will say I'm being negative by complaining about those things but they are essential to positively support the primary ingredient which is the horse.

And if I go, I don't expect to get high level hospo. That's not what we should be trying to compete with, but if I can have a couple of no alcohol beers or at least one dark beer option and maybe a lemon, lime and bitters for the missus and/or a decent coffee, then that would be a bonus. As would a decent pie, fresh sandwich etc. at reasonable prices.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I agree with your post.  I've said that for years.  The horse is the only thing that differentiates us from any other sport or form of entertainment.  Even wagering/punting is no longer exclusive to horse racing.  Why we continue to think that we can compete or should compete with the hospitality industry amazes me.

I remember years and years of enjoyable on course experiences where there was only two or three beers on tap and one type of gin, whiskey and rum.  Plus the standard drinks for the kids.  Food - nothing fancy.  Something to grab and eat on the run as you went from parade ring to the grandstand or your favourite possie to watch the races.  Percy "Pie" Hurren only ever had two types of pies available at the Hoki races - mince or steak and sausage rolls.  No myriad of differentiated pie flavourings.  The Stapleton Sisters ran the sit down public lunch room where everyone got the same fare - a plate of one cream cupcake, one lamington, and a club sandwich.  Coffee or tea from a big urn.

 

That's part of the problem , we have a myriad of persons at clubs/NZTR who think the food and beverage is more important than the core product the horse. Outside of perhaps the big 3 clubs I can't see the need or deman to provide such services , but many in the industry think they should be having Flemington Spring Carnival experiences at race meetings in NZ every week. I think its one reason the provincial clubs did well they provided the value for money experience on all fronts including food & beverage.

[curious]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So there were no mixers for the spirits?  Did the reason why you were there complain?  As in your horse?

There was lemonade and coke. No soda or tonic. They did have water as an alternative.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, curious said:

They won't do that for long if you don't provide decent, fair and safe tracks and a handicapping and programming system that allows them to be competitive.

These two constraints to improvement annoy me the most.  One is an easy fix - the handicapping (and the programming).  The other not so easy - the tracks but still fixable with the right investment, planning and some flexibility and the utilisation of some really good existing tracks rather than closing them down.  If you elevate the needs of the horse above everything else then many of the perceived constraints about some tracks become meaningless.  So what if Foxton can't accommodate 3,000 people under cover?  

The tracks are another reason I get pissed off with the whipping rules virtue signalling.  They talk about horse welfare yet are prepared to allow these horses to be sent out on unsafe shitty tracks.  What I also find annoying is that Trainers are too scared to do anything about or even say anything.  They tend to turn up and bury their heads in the sand (I guess that is another reason for all the sand on our tracks!) and just accept it.  I've told this story before but it will always stick in my mind.  I had a horse racing at Ellerslie and as I always did when she was racing I walked the track. 

So early in the morning before breakfast I walked the track and found it was in an appalling state for a Grp 1 Premier day - I even found a deep hole in the home straight that was like a large post had been pulled out and the hole not filled in.  I quickly went back to the hotel on course and found the Trainer and we went back.  A couple of Jockey's were walking the track and another trainer - Nigel Tiley.  Anyway after we walked the track Tiley said - "I'm scratching my horses - this track isn't good enough" - my Trainer said "Shit I wish I hadn't seen that, if we hadn't come this far and all this expense I'd scratch too."  They hadn't seen the hole at that stage.  We ended up putting a tree branch in it - I wish I had taken a photo of this tree suddenly growing in the middle of the Ellerslie home straight.  To this day I think about what would have happened if I hadn't walked the track and found that hole.  You could put your arm down it up to your shoulder and still not touch the bottom.

Yes a bit of an extreme example.  BUT as far as I know only two trainers walked the track before the races and I backed the rides of the two Jockey's that I saw walking it.  Of all the tracks I've walked on race day I've very rarely seen a Trainer do it.  Let alone complain to the authorities.

Last year NZTR in the annual report show expenditure of $95k on Track Maintenance.  $2.2m on the new computer system and I understand the cost is blowing out by the week.

[nomates]

The handicapping or ratings is an easy fix, at least through the lower grades , stop rating our racing to suit international standards, we're a long way off that now, rate to what we have. 

Set weights solves a lot of issues, 58kg for males and 56kg for females , till open grade. 

Call the grades what you want, say we keep them the way we are, your horse wins a mdn goes to 65 gets 58kg wins again, stays in the same grade but goes to 60kg , wins again goes to 75 grade gets 58kg , so on and so on . Best horse wins, but the above only happens if the horse is winning Saturday races , if they are industry days , each win incurs 1kg penalty, so they get 3 wins in midweek before going up a grade .

Your horse runs 2,3,4th stays same weight anything worse the horse loses a kg .

None of this huge ratings jumps for age grade black type performances ,2,3,4th horse stays at whatever rating it had before race , winner gets 2kg, losers get 1kg off .

That's a rough plan but it stops this weighting horses out of racing or getting hammered for consistent place getting. 

For me it means best horses win if good enough .

If a horse is good enough to win 4 of it's first 6 races say , a mdn and 3 Saturday 40k races , that's 75 + k , with more than come. 

Might stop some of the cheaper trial sales. 

Some may say that's not fair on the other horses but we shouldn't be rewarding mediocrity,  a good horse should be able to show that without getting hammered after a few consistent performances,  because some nice horses take more racing to get there but are still performing well but getting weighted out of it because of that  .

And really most of our horses aren't good enough to put them together in a row, but the good ones should be allowed to instead of being sold .

This is just an outline that can definitely be tweaked and adjusted but for me it would be a much fairer system based on the quality of our horses. 

 

 

[Joe Bloggs]

It's ten lengths better than what's happening now, they want suggestions from the floor, well that's a great start.

[Huey]

I found  a positive and of course it had to be a horse - La Crique.

[Reefton]

On 9/02/2022 at 10:25 AM, curious said:

There was lemonade and coke. No soda or tonic. They did have water as an alternative.

You weren't at Reefton were you?  Sounds like our 'sponsors' room (which we have constant problems with freeloaders accessing).  Our public bar has (in the past) been the topic of compliments as to its range of ale but I went to Ellerslie as an owner on KM night a fair few years ago and surprised that there was only Speights from a can in the owners pre race parade area(Champagne and whatever else as well but very limited beer selection) so we are not on our own.

if you were at Reefton(I know your horse was and was bloody unlucky too) I would like to have thought you would have made a point of making yourself known.

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Reefton

[curious]

8 minutes ago, Reefton said:

You weren't at Reefton were you?  Sounds like our 'sponsors' room (which we have constant problems with freeloaders accessing).  Our public bar has (in the past) been the topic of compliments as to its range of ale but I went to Ellerslie as an owner on KM night a fair few years ago and surprised that there was only Speights from a can in the owners pre race parade area(Champagne and whatever else as well but very limited beer selection) so we are not on our own.

if you were at Reefton(I know your horse was and was bloody unlucky too) I would like to have thought you would have made a point of making yourself known.

 

Next year! And hopefully win one this time

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Next year! And hopefully win one this time

I'd love to see you and to see you and Pam get the money!  He was perilously close this time

[Shad]

On 9/02/2022 at 8:57 AM, Chief Stipe said:

I agree with your post.  I've said that for years.  The horse is the only thing that differentiates us from any other sport or form of entertainment.  Even wagering/punting is no longer exclusive to horse racing.  Why we continue to think that we can compete or should compete with the hospitality industry amazes me.

I remember years and years of enjoyable on course experiences where there was only two or three beers on tap and one type of gin, whiskey and rum.  Plus the standard drinks for the kids.  Food - nothing fancy.  Something to grab and eat on the run as you went from parade ring to the grandstand or your favourite possie to watch the races.  Percy "Pie" Hurren only ever had two types of pies available at the Hoki races - mince or steak and sausage rolls.  No myriad of differentiated pie flavourings.  The Stapleton Sisters ran the sit down public lunch room where everyone got the same fare - a plate of one cream cupcake, one lamington, and a club sandwich.  Coffee or tea from a big urn.

I digress.....  The focus for the entire industry should go back to what differentiates it from every other option available today.  The horse!  Start with the tracks, then the handicapping, then the rider skills...keep more horses in the game which means more people involved.  Stakes will come as will attendance.  Remember the days when everyone either had a share in a horse or knew someone who did?  Accessibility was the key.

Remember when you could take your kids down to the stables and show them a horse and ask the trainer politely if they would let them pat one?  Sure OSH and drug contamination rules have stymied that but why can't you have a couple of tame ponies or proper horses that people can go and actually see and touch?  Smell the damn things and their dung.

Stop focusing on "The Party" where you can't compete week in week out - focus on the damn horse!!!!

They good old days, when there was quite a few trainers and horses up and down the coast, these days apparently there's only one on the whole of the coast area,quite sad really, real shame about the hokitika track unused these days, always enjoyed a day out there racing was good, and you were always close to the action, like all the coast tracks.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Shad said:

They good old days, when there was quite a few trainers and horses up and down the coast, these days apparently there's only one on the whole of the coast area,quite sad really, real shame about the hokitika track unused these days, always enjoyed a day out there racing was good, and you were always close to the action, like all the coast tracks.

All ruined in the name of non existent progress!

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Shad said:

They good old days, when there was quite a few trainers and horses up and down the coast, these days apparently there's only one on the whole of the coast area,quite sad really, real shame about the hokitika track unused these days, always enjoyed a day out there racing was good, and you were always close to the action, like all the coast tracks.

Hoki has a grievance but no more than Blenhiem, Waikouaiti, Wairoa or Dargaville.  All places where people love to go to the races but the powers that be could not have people actually keen on witnessing the product in action so they had to shut them down.

And it was probably more by good luck than good judgement that we didn't join them