Brodie Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 Geez Ozzie horses must be very weak! Just watched Daggy Lamb win its second race from 2 starts at Cranbourne tonight. It drew one and lead all the way despite being had on early on, and it bolted in! Seriously, Daggy Lamb in NZ won its only race at its last start at Oamaru beating a very average horse in Art Collector. Daggy Lamb was probably considered a better grass tracker than all weather track horse! This just reinforces the fact that almost any reasonable NZ horse could go to Oz and win plenty of races, if Daggy Lamb can win over there like a very good horse!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forbury Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Geez Ozzie horses must be very weak! Just watched Daggy Lamb win its second race from 2 starts at Cranbourne tonight. It drew one and lead all the way despite being had on early on, and it bolted in! Seriously, Daggy Lamb in NZ won its only race at its last start at Oamaru beating a very average horse in Art Collector. Daggy Lamb was probably considered a better grass tracker than all weather track horse! This just reinforces the fact that almost any reasonable NZ horse could go to Oz and win plenty of races, if Daggy Lamb can win over there like a very good horse!!!! Your on the money again as Jason Grimson will train it soon and it will win miracle mile in the death seat in a mile rate of 145.69 world record 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 They have races, city and provincial, every day for all grades. Compare this to nz and go figure. Surely an avid harness fan such as hourself should know this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 11, 2022 Author Share Posted April 11, 2022 13 hours ago, MarkyMark said: They have races, city and provincial, every day for all grades. Compare this to nz and go figure. Surely an avid harness fan such as hourself should know this Not sure of your point you are trying to get at Marky? Am well aware of the no. Of races in Oz! The point is that a less than average grass tracker in NZ has won 2 races from 2 in Victoria and the second was in a final. It cleaned up like a topliner over there, that is my point, what is yours MarkyMark? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Brodie said: Not sure of your point you are trying to get at Marky? Am well aware of the no. Of races in Oz! The point is that a less than average grass tracker in NZ has won 2 races from 2 in Victoria and the second was in a final. It cleaned up like a topliner over there, that is my point, what is yours MarkyMark? In my opinion both the Harness and Galloping codes in OZ are providing more opportunities for all classes of horses. NZ is stuck in a failed model. So average NZ horses have more opportunities in OZ to line up in even fields and earn revenue for the industry as well as their owners. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Brodie said: Not sure of your point you are trying to get at Marky? Am well aware of the no. Of races in Oz! The point is that a less than average grass tracker in NZ has won 2 races from 2 in Victoria and the second was in a final. It cleaned up like a topliner over there, that is my point, what is yours MarkyMark? You said he won 2 races on the bounce, and won its last start like a good horse and questioning opposition of competition. .I thought it's fairly obvious, there are many examples like this. You could send for e.g. and mediocre manuawatu horse, and he'd probably be a champ at globe derby. Again it's obvious, races every day just about for all class of horse. My point is there is no point, he's found races he can be competitive in, because he's not facing the same competition in nz week in week out. For someone again who is suppose to be a professional punter and avid harness fan, I would have thought you would know this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 4/10/2022 at 9:29 PM, Brodie said: Geez Ozzie horses must be very weak! Just watched Daggy Lamb win its second race from 2 starts at Cranbourne tonight. It drew one and lead all the way despite being had on early on, and it bolted in! Seriously, Daggy Lamb in NZ won its only race at its last start at Oamaru beating a very average horse in Art Collector. Daggy Lamb was probably considered a better grass tracker than all weather track horse! This just reinforces the fact that almost any reasonable NZ horse could go to Oz and win plenty of races, if Daggy Lamb can win over there like a very good horse!!!! It also reinforces how useless the harness racing rating system is mate. Daggy Lamb went the odd good race here but needed the right run like many horses. I think it is hard to get out of the grade you are in here if you are a slow, battling type of horse like Daggy Lamb. Also many of the smaller trainers do not have their horses fit enough. I see the new Australian trainer has trained over 500 winners, something Daggy Lamb's previous trainer hasn't done and never will. So I think the improvement would be down to better trainer, horse fitter and smaller fields at Cranbourne. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 1 hour ago, MarkyMark said: You said he won 2 races on the bounce, and won its last start like a good horse and questioning opposition of competition. .I thought it's fairly obvious, there are many examples like this. You could send for e.g. and mediocre manuawatu horse, and he'd probably be a champ at globe derby. Again it's obvious, races every day just about for all class of horse. My point is there is no point, he's found races he can be competitive in, because he's not facing the same competition in nz week in week out. For someone again who is suppose to be a professional punter and avid harness fan, I would have thought you would know this Firstly MarkyMark, where did I ever imply that I was a professional punter?????? Avid fan? Not sure about that nowadays due to several reasons! Of course there are heaps of examples of NZ horses going over to Oz and winning and that is the point!!! Daggy Lamb would have struggled to win another race here however it went over and won like a champ. It was at Cranbourne in Victoria and it was a race chock full of form being a final and not a low class race! Anyway MarkyMark, start a topic so I can see what you have got? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Brodie said: Firstly MarkyMark, where did I ever imply that I was a professional punter?????? correct you have stressed that it is not about the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Brodie said: Firstly MarkyMark, where did I ever imply that I was a professional punter?????? Avid fan? Not sure about that nowadays due to several reasons! Of course there are heaps of examples of NZ horses going over to Oz and winning and that is the point!!! Daggy Lamb would have struggled to win another race here however it went over and won like a champ. It was at Cranbourne in Victoria and it was a race chock full of form being a final and not a low class race! Anyway MarkyMark, start a topic so I can see what you have got? To be facing supposed betting restrictions, that would therefore suggest you would be betting with the tab min 6 figures, that is on the realms of being a sophisticated, professional punter. You wouldn't be getting restricted at such levels if you were a regular loser. Cranbourne form, ok mate tell me we're does cranborne form stack up in Victoria? Lol you are showing yourself up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, MarkyMark said: To be facing supposed betting restrictions, that would therefore suggest you would be betting with the tab min 6 figures, that is on the realms of being a sophisticated, professional punter. You wouldn't be getting restricted at such levels if you were a regular loser. Cranbourne form, ok mate tell me we're does cranborne form stack up in Victoria? Lol you are showing yourself up here. Yes you are correct I do very well from punting! Could I do a lot better if I was allowed on for what I would like, of course! Yes I am restricted because the NZ TAB dont want to allow me to win and that has been the case for many years! If they allowed me to MarkyMark I would be turning over 7 figures without much trouble. I do not rely on harness racing punting for a living, I have far more lucrative investments. The race at Cranbourne was not a mugs race, go and do your homework!! It was a $10k final with Daggy Lamb going a 1.58 mile rate over 2080m on a track that is smaller than ours over here generally. It won by several lengths and was had on, Edited April 12, 2022 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 37 minutes ago, Brodie said: Yes you are correct I do very well from punting! Could I do a lot better if I was allowed on for what I would like, of course! Yes I am restricted because the NZ TAB dont want to allow me to win and that has been the case for many years! If they allowed me to MarkyMark I would be turning over 7 figures without much trouble. I do not rely on harness racing punting for a living, I have far more lucrative investments. The race at Cranbourne was not a mugs race, go and do your homework!! It was a $10k final with Daggy Lamb going a 1.58 mile rate over 2080m on a track that is smaller than ours over here generally. It won by several lengths and was had on, Lol it was drawn 1 on a fast tight turning track, it was not a track record, they run those times fairly consistently. It was a low key cranborne meeting, not Melton. And yes it was a average race, but a series created to give this type of class of horse to race week in week out for some good money. I suggest you do your homework Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, MarkyMark said: Lol it was drawn 1 on a fast tight turning track, it was not a track record, they run those times fairly consistently. It was a low key cranborne meeting, not Melton. And yes it was a average race, but a series created to give this type of class of horse to race week in week out for some good money. I suggest you do your homework I am not on here to ague with you MarkyMark when Brodie is on the money! The commentator said it”was a big win”! Cranbourne is not a back paddock venue and it was a $10k race! My heading was “tongue in cheek” and I dont expect it to be a champ, but just pointing out how a below average horse here can go over there and bolt in against the Oz horses, making it now 2 from 2! Too hard for most of our horses to make money for their owners in NZ so that is why they are being sold to Oz! Edited April 12, 2022 by Brodie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 13 hours ago, Brodie said: Am well aware of the no. Of races in Oz! The point is that a less than average grass tracker in NZ has won 2 races from 2 in Victoria and the second was in a final. It cleaned up like a topliner over there, that is my point, what is yours MarkyMark Brodie , once again you are IGNORING the fact that horses are BETTER placed in Oz by astute trainers !!!! That's the point Marky Mark is making. I WOULD NOT race my horse in a lot of those places in NZ , like rough grass tracks and long distance races , and standing starts and the Many things NZ trainers do to their horse. It Flattens them mate !!, they lose confidence in those big fields mate !! no wonder so many are out of form??? and no wonder they easily 'find form' with shorter distance racing (that you constantly criticise amongst other things) , smaller fields , better grades/ class racing and better placement and training in Australia. and you say you can bet 6 figures on them in NZ ? lol... better your money than smart punters money I spose. lol.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: Brodie , once again you are IGNORING the fact that horses are BETTER placed in Oz by astute trainers !!!! That's the point Marky Mark is making. I WOULD NOT race my horse in a lot of those places in NZ , like rough grass tracks and long distance races , and standing starts and the Many things NZ trainers do to their horse. It Flattens them mate !!, they lose confidence in those big fields mate !! no wonder so many are out of form??? and no wonder they easily 'find form' with shorter distance racing (that you constantly criticise amongst other things) , smaller fields , better grades/ class racing and better placement and training in Australia. and you say you can bet 6 figures on them in NZ ? lol... better your money than smart punters money I spose. lol.... Gamma, I am well aware that there are far more opportunities and easier to place horses in Oz than NZ! I do not believe that Ozzies are better trainers than NZ trainers, quite the opposite in fact! NZ horses are just far better on the whole, and the fact is that they show this when they transfer to OZ! We export a lot of horses especially when they have met their mark here and they go over and clean up early on, due to the lower class of horse they are racing against. I would consider myself to be a smart punter Gamma over a long period of time! I may not be your standard orthodox punter, but my method has been very successful for myself! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Brodie said: I do not believe that Ozzies are better trainers than NZ trainers, quite the opposite in fact Your belief is Not on the money once again. Having prepared horses in both countries at a variety of stables I can say your 'quite the opposite in fact' is a blot on your knowledge. some huge operations in Aus do an amazing job over the years and I wouldn't put them behind NZ is a little mis-informed. 1 hour ago, Brodie said: We export a lot of horses especially when they have met their mark here and they go over and clean up early on, due to the lower class of horse they are racing against. Another badly off the money comment. Most standardbred Sales to Australia are FAR FAR from reaching their mark. Many are sold off after one win in the NZ deep south under the watchful eye of the WA 'Bond' and 'Hall' juggernauts as one example, but the VAST majority are purchased at a loose assessment. thought you would know that?. Older type's like Triple Eight and Star Gallaria, Bad to the Bone , etc are still often raced by the NZ connections as have reached their mark (in both countries, ) so are not an ideal sellable commodity. Will you ever be on the money again ?? i'm giving up hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Gammalite said: Brodie , once again you are IGNORING the fact that horses are BETTER placed in Oz by astute trainers !!!! That's the point Marky Mark is making. I WOULD NOT race my horse in a lot of those places in NZ , like rough grass tracks and long distance races , and standing starts and the Many things NZ trainers do to their horse. It Flattens them mate !!, they lose confidence in those big fields mate !! no wonder so many are out of form??? and no wonder they easily 'find form' with shorter distance racing (that you constantly criticise amongst other things) , smaller fields , better grades/ class racing and better placement and training in Australia. and you say you can bet 6 figures on them in NZ ? lol... better your money than smart punters money I spose. lol.... Thank you mate, it is you that is on the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 12, 2022 Share Posted April 12, 2022 Brodie, here's an example for you. Vespa, was trained by Tim Vince before going to Australia. Off memory won 3 races here around 25k in stakes or thereabouts, low key races. Since going to west Australia, has won total of 12 races and 160k. This horse has managed to race against lesser competition for good stake money. We are not necessarily disagreeing regarding your initial point just it's fairly obvious, they have a plethora of races almost every day for all classes. And as gamma rightly pointed out have conditions better suited to be able to race your horse more without the same strain you would have here, I.e. stands, grass, very large fields etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 12, 2022 Author Share Posted April 12, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Gammalite said: Your belief is Not on the money once again. Having prepared horses in both countries at a variety of stables I can say your 'quite the opposite in fact' is a blot on your knowledge. some huge operations in Aus do an amazing job over the years and I wouldn't put them behind NZ is a little mis-informed. Another badly off the money comment. Most standardbred Sales to Australia are FAR FAR from reaching their mark. Many are sold off after one win in the NZ deep south under the watchful eye of the WA 'Bond' and 'Hall' juggernauts as one example, but the VAST majority are purchased at a loose assessment. thought you would know that?. Older type's like Triple Eight and Star Gallaria, Bad to the Bone , etc are still often raced by the NZ connections as have reached their mark (in both countries, ) so are not an ideal sellable commodity. Will you ever be on the money again ?? i'm giving up hope Gamma, you can have your opinion on whether Oz trainers are better than Kiwi trainers however the fact remains NZ horses are far better. Spellbound is a a case of where racing a lesser horse in Oz, or are you saying that the Dunns are nit up to the same class as the Oz trainers?? Of course there are horses that are exported Oz that have plenty of improvement in them! Edited April 12, 2022 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Brodie said: Spellbound is a a case of where racing a lesser horse in Oz, or are you saying that the Dunns are nit up to the same class as the Oz trainers?? No I didn't say that at all. I haven't bagged any trainers personally. Woodend Beach seems to cop a lot of 'flak' by a lot of kiwi observers over there it seems . BUT Not from me. The leading NZ stable and trainers of Sundees Son (near greatest trotter of all time the way he is going ) deserve my FULL respect. You are showing disrespect for something you know little about. Have you ever trained in Aus ?? or even been to an Australian training operation. They are amazing. I'm in total awe of these fantastic trainers that race 5 days per week all around the nation, and get EXCELLENT results. AND don't deserve your 'OFF THE Money' misinformed Assessment lol...starting with Vinny Knight as soon as I arrived. The up-standard in Melbourne from what I participated in in NZ was extreme in my experienced opinion. I can name 10 stables straight up , that have around 50 horses in work each (including my locals Dixon (who has 80, McMullen Barnes, Rasmussen ) and they have about 20 horses each running 1.55 and better week to week. I could take you on a state to state assessment of results but you're FAR to biased. What for? I don't know. Been some very impressive training feats IMO. yesyes yes Allstars are good too. and could beat the Aussies no doubt. (One of them is an Aussie lol.) but who cares ?lol... Go Big or Go home lol. Go THE RACE !!!! what a great concept. great to see some Oz reps ? lol...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Brodie said: Gamma, you can have your opinion on whether Oz trainers are better than Kiwi trainers however the fact remains NZ horses are far better Personally I think the quality of the trainer is Directly relevant to the racing ability of the horse. Both NZ and Aus breeding is directly influenced by the American bloodlines. The training (and race placement) is the key to winning races , as you have pointed out with Daggy Lamb. You choose to 'shoot' the opposition , rather than credit the New trainer. A political point of view by you. Perhaps you should sign up with the Opposition parties to Jacinda and make a quid with that tactic.? lol..... Gammalite being trained by a 'mug' oz trainer O'Connor (but still winning a $1,000,000 and Village Kid (also trained by a 'mug' trainer , a butcher actually) and winning $2,000,000 , Blacks a Fake (trained by a young QLD lass) I rate as the 3 best horses seen in my lifetime. (followed closely by Maori's Idol and Popular Alm ) so that's 4 Aussies and One expat NZer (the Kid) so like you, this has forced me into bias !!! lol...... How good are even the 'mug' Aussie trainers to get Gammalite and Village Kid smashing out Interdominions, Auckland Cups, and Miracle Miles etc. ? something for Daggy Nz Lamb to aspire too. ??? The last Interdominion saw the 'KING' de-throned by an old claimer horse. What an exceptional trainer that Grimson is ?? will he win The RACE too ? maybe..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Gammalite said: How good are even the 'mug' Aussie trainers to get Gammalite and Village Kid smashing out Interdominions, Auckland Cups, and Miracle Miles etc. ? something for Daggy Nz Lamb to aspire too. ??? The last Interdominion saw the 'KING' de-throned by an old claimer horse. What an exceptional trainer that Grimson is ?? will he win The RACE too ? maybe..... Another mug trainer and his former kiwi pacer ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 36 minutes ago, Rangatira said: Another mug trainer and his former kiwi pacer ? Whata a classic !! nothing like stopping for a pick of grass while out for a jog hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 13, 2022 Author Share Posted April 13, 2022 19 hours ago, Gammalite said: Personally I think the quality of the trainer is Directly relevant to the racing ability of the horse. Both NZ and Aus breeding is directly influenced by the American bloodlines. The training (and race placement) is the key to winning races , as you have pointed out with Daggy Lamb. You choose to 'shoot' the opposition , rather than credit the New trainer. A political point of view by you. Perhaps you should sign up with the Opposition parties to Jacinda and make a quid with that tactic.? lol..... Gammalite being trained by a 'mug' oz trainer O'Connor (but still winning a $1,000,000 and Village Kid (also trained by a 'mug' trainer , a butcher actually) and winning $2,000,000 , Blacks a Fake (trained by a young QLD lass) I rate as the 3 best horses seen in my lifetime. (followed closely by Maori's Idol and Popular Alm ) so that's 4 Aussies and One expat NZer (the Kid) so like you, this has forced me into bias !!! lol...... How good are even the 'mug' Aussie trainers to get Gammalite and Village Kid smashing out Interdominions, Auckland Cups, and Miracle Miles etc. ? something for Daggy Nz Lamb to aspire too. ??? The last Interdominion saw the 'KING' de-throned by an old claimer horse. What an exceptional trainer that Grimson is ?? will he win The RACE too ? maybe..... Of course there are some great Ozzie trainers and hard working and successful. The Ozzie system works far better than NZ due to the no. Of horses and bigger population so easier to place a horse. On average the Kiwi horse is far superior to Oz as the Ozzies breed a lot of crap mares to crap stallions, it is what it is. There have been many champion Ozzie harness horses but you would expect that, however they do run up against a lesser class of horse. At the end of the day we are entitled to our opinion and Ozzie harness will last a lot longer than NZ harness the way things are here currently. Enjoy your postings Gamma! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 16 hours ago, Rangatira said: Another mug trainer the magical man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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