Reefton Posted October 13, 2022 Author Share Posted October 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: BTW I was referring to Oz tracks I response to Fredas comments about Randwick and Eagle Farm. Of course the option most of you seem to prefer is to do nothing or race less. Race less??? Well the technique of doing track renovations seems to be VERY effective in creating a 'race less' outcome. I had no idea that was the intended purpose of all that pissing money up against the wall in the name of track renovation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, Michael said: Firstly you are incorrect yet again as Reefton does run a harness meeting Secondly, when I was Secretary I don't think a single day was lost due to the track at Marlborough, Nelson, Hokitika, Westport or Reefton (Greymouth spoilt the record, 1 day abandoned after a horse slipped during the day (and another due to gale force winds)). Yet again you are making stuff up Thirdly, you are getting like Brodie (unless you are Brodie and have 2 logins, has been known to happen before) in that when questioned or pulled up on a stupid statement you then "of course I wasn't referring to NZ" or "of course I meant full reconstructions instead of partial ones" Dead right Mike. And if there was one place that you would bet on being vulnerable to horses slipping it would be the Coast with its very tight turns Its called management 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 14, 2022 Author Share Posted October 14, 2022 39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Bollocks. How many of those were actually complete reconstructions? Most were only half arsed partials. Your only solution is to let god do the irrigating and put a plough through the track occasionally. I guess that works if you only have two or three meetings a year. Oh and no harness meetings! The one huge reconstruction I saw was Riccarton and it is the main one that continues to have issues 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 14 hours ago, Reefton said: I am suspicious that may have to do with the way the track was laid down years ago but clearly the Club and the Conference(NZRC) relied on 'experts' to sort the track out and equally clearly the quality of the work is in serious doubt. When you rely on 'experts' in any field it is (in my experience) a recipe for disaster. Correct, you see this time after time, after time, after time in this game. Social climbers with big tickets but fuck-all else in their favour. The last decent track manager at Riccarton was Pat Reardon, he wouldn't have had a CV but was an old school farmer with green fingers, although he did have a lot more real estate and a better sub-soiled and top-soiled track to work with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 3 hours ago, billy connolly said: Correct, you see this time after time, after time, after time in this game. Social climbers with big tickets but fuck-all else in their favour. The last decent track manager at Riccarton was Pat Reardon, he wouldn't have had a CV but was an old school farmer with green fingers, although he did have a lot more real estate and a better sub-soiled and top-soiled track to work with. How many decades ago was that? Probably had the best of the soil condition and no one has spent any money since. .....and we wonder why tracks are fucked but let's just blame under resourced allegedly over qualified people trying their best working for admin idiots. Meanwhile trainers and owners those that are left reminesce about the good old days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 3 hours ago, Reefton said: The one huge reconstruction I saw was Riccarton and it is the main one that continues to have issues FFS wasn't it done THIRTY YEARS ago? Even if it was top notch how fucking long did you expect it to last? Hell Flemington has annual maintenance and major renovation every FOUR fucking years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: Here's a simple question, we didn't have these problems back in the 60's and 70"s........I remember riding in pouring rain, on a bottomless track and had 3 pairs of goggles, on....we called them goggles then, the only bloke who didn't have googles was MRC and he told us why, he waa going to the front and staying there....he did..........why is all this crap going on now? what happened tween then and now?.....something that baffles me....... Health and Safety rules now, J.B. To be fair to administrators, they just can't risk anyone falling as result of unsafe conditions. Back then there weren't such concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Fair comment Freda, but how do you explain we had so few falls? I only rode for 3 years, but I only saw one fall, no, two if I remember correctly, not counting the jumps of course..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Michael said: Firstly you are incorrect yet again as Reefton does run a harness meeting Secondly, when I was Secretary I don't think a single day was lost due to the track at Marlborough, Nelson, Hokitika, Westport or Reefton (Greymouth spoilt the record, 1 day abandoned after a horse slipped during the day (and another due to gale force winds)). If my memory serves me right, the slipping to which you refer was due to clover, which had appeared after the ChCh track manager had removed the bulrushes and natural weed, and redone the track with ' proper' grass. Wasn't Reardon either, but earlier than him. Yet again you are making stuff up Thirdly, you are getting like Brodie (unless you are Brodie and have 2 logins, has been known to happen before) in that when questioned or pulled up on a stupid statement you then "of course I wasn't referring to NZ" or "of course I meant full reconstructions instead of partial ones" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Joe Bloggs said: Fair comment Freda, but how do you explain we had so few falls? I only rode for 3 years, but I only saw one fall, no, two if I remember correctly, not counting the jumps of course..... Ah...now I'm not sexist, not in any shape or form, but you wouldn't have had little girls or Mauritians to dodge, would you ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 41 minutes ago, Freda said: Ah...now I'm not sexist, not in any shape or form, but you wouldn't have had little girls or Mauritians to dodge, would you ? Ooooh, now that's naughty, but very poignant...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: How many decades ago was that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 7 hours ago, billy connolly said: Good bloke, Pat. I remember, on one particular occasion, two senior riders [ Mouse McCann and Perry Thomas ] waving down his tractor to bring it to a standstill, and then proceeding to bring him up to speed over the state of the plough. To his credit, he took it all on board, and did the plough himself for quite a while after. It improved quickly and there were no more complaints. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: FFS wasn't it done THIRTY YEARS ago? Even if it was top notch how fucking long did you expect it to last? Hell Flemington has annual maintenance and major renovation every FOUR fucking years! Well, if that happened here, there may not be the problems we now experience, and have done in some shape or form since reconstruction. But it doesn't, apart from very occasional slicing, vertidraining and sanding. Can't you comprehend the difference? and the reason for the frustration of many stakeholders? Clearly there is neither the money to undertake a complete renovation every four years, nor the will to recognise there is even a problem. And therein lies a bigger one. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 2 hours ago, Freda said: Clearly there is neither the money to undertake a complete renovation every four years, nor the will to recognise there is even a problem. And therein lies a bigger one. Correct and sooner or later the major trainers will stop wanting to bring their horses. So the consensus is that the track has issues. There are differences in opinion on what caused those issues and what needs to be done to fix them. The facts are very little is being spent on fixing the problems, the irrigation policy will continue because it has to etc etc. Therefore sooner or later a really bad surface will present on a big raceday. I guess at least at Eagle Farm the Trainers and Jockey's put the acid on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Correct and sooner or later the major trainers will stop wanting to bring their horses. So the consensus is that the track has issues. There are differences in opinion on what caused those issues and what needs to be done to fix them. The facts are very little is being spent on fixing the problems, the irrigation policy will continue because it has to etc etc. Therefore sooner or later a really bad surface will present on a big raceday. I guess at least at Eagle Farm the Trainers and Jockey's put the acid on! Yes, agree with that. However, we know - looking at the latest TAB figures - that the industry is running on empty. The development at Auckland, and the possibility of a Greenfields development in Cambridge, will largely be funded by commercial means not industry money. So, whether 'pressure' is put on or not, you can't get blood out of a stone, if money's not there it just ain't there. So pointing the finger at Australia is not comparing apples with apples. Because their respective state operations do have money . Your former nemesis used to be very scathing of the idea that any extra funding should go towards stakes. Infrastructure, training, and r & d were vital to the overall health of the industry he used to maintain and he was right. But, as stated above, there just isn't the surplus to keep everyone happy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Look at the way those Aussie tracks come back after rain: heavy 8 Caulfield and soft 7 Randwick. And probably improve during the day if no more rain. Probably the only NZ track that could bounce back that quickly would be Te Rapa. I know Ruakaka might, but that is hardly metropolitan. Riccarton and Trentham would take weeks to dry out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Isn't it good to see a firm track at Ashburton. If the SI could get their programming right leading into Cup Week it could become a viable option for NI trainers. As it is, it is only really Te Akau and a few Marsh horses that venture south in search of good tracks, which is a bit surprising. You would have to think those $60,000 stakes are a bit wasted at HB. If the track was good horses would probably have gone there for $40,000 and on a heavy track the $60,000 stakes have made no difference for lower grade horses. Only 2 races out of 8 with more than 10 starters. You do feel sorry for the odd wet tracker who may have missed out on the original fields and now only 8 starters in some races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 On 12/10/2022 at 2:31 PM, Reefton said: Ashburton was rated a Soft 5 yesterday (nomination morning) and a Soft 6 today(withdrawal day) When a track is clearly rain affected AND there are horses looking for drier tracks what good reason is there why that Club is irrigating and secondly why did they not disclose that fact on the NZTR website nominations page? It is in the meeting news release but not in the nominations/fields page. A Good 4. I guess they got the irrigation spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: A Good 4. I guess they got the irrigation spot on. Yes they did. Good to see it come back to good. Such a pity Ashburton and Timaru aren't considered relevant anymore now that Riccarton has its AWT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 21 hours ago, Freda said: Ah...now I'm not sexist, not in any shape or form, but you wouldn't have had little girls or Mauritians to dodge, would you ? Had woman jockeys for years, pretty racist comments to me. See you have no idea, these jockeys obviously don’t have the training, experience etc. To say you now have little girls or Mauritians to dodge, FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 31 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Had woman jockeys for years, pretty racist comments to me. See you have no idea, these jockeys obviously don’t have the training, experience etc. To say you now have little girls or Mauritians to dodge, FFS I don't think Pam was getting specifically at the girls or imports but at the overall standard. In the seventies when Pam got into the game there were a few more senior riders and very good apprentices. Meins Pankhurst Skelton Morton McCann Walsh Robinson, later Richards, Davison and Colletts plus a bunch of others. Remember they used to run two southern racedays on the same day in those times. The general standard has somewhat declined 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Reefton said: I don't think Pam was getting specifically at the girls or imports but at the overall standard. In the seventies when Pam got into the game there were a few more senior riders and very good apprentices. Meins Pankhurst Skelton Morton McCann Walsh Robinson, later Richards, Davison and Colletts plus a bunch of others. Remember they used to run two southern racedays on the same day in those times. The general standard has somewhat declined Yes, it certainly has. And the comment was made tongue in cheek, but seemingly you didn't get it. I've had female apprentices and many of the immigrant riders are my friends. But the clock in the head is badly lacking in many of them. The training of young riders ATM is creating a real problem. My former partner, a good rider in his day, used to reckon it was becoming next to impossible to ride a good race. Defensive driving was the order of the day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Went through to the keeper, sadly, don't get irony these woke types, sadly.......sad as it is, sadly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 As a sideline, the best jockey in NZ suspended for 6 weeks, 6 bloody weeks for the carnage he caused, hello, what a role model, he's fucking lucky one of them isn't in a wheelchair, FFS.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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