TAB NOW TABCORP?

[Newmarket]

Interesting. 

[Chief Stipe]

NEWSROOM EXCLUSIVE

Hold all tickets: Aussie takeover of TAB on the cards

Giant Australian gambling companies are poised to take over the TAB’s role in New Zealand if a report into the racing industry is adopted by the Government.

The report, commissioned by Racing Minister Winston Peters, and kept secret from racing industry leaders, is due to be released tonight at a public meeting in Hamilton.

Sources familiar with the contents of the report says it recommends that race betting in New Zealand be outsourced to an Australian company, effectively meaning the end of the TAB.

The TAB turns over more than a billion dollars in race bets and returns a total of about $150 million annually to the racing codes – gallops, harness racing and greyhounds.

The racing industry has been struggling for years with inadequate stake money and NZ First leader, Winston Peters is its local champion.

NZ First has received considerable backing from key figures in the racing industry and the Deputy Prime Minister has long promised to lift the industry out of the doldrums.

Peters brought in wealthy Australian stud owner and racing guru John Messara to review the long-term sustainability of racing industry in this country.

Sources have told Newsroom that the big gambling companies in Australia have proposed giving the industry an up-front cash payment and more money, said to be $100 million over 25 years, if they get the licence to control betting on NZ races. 

It is odds on that one of the Australian suitors will be Tabcorp.

It is listed on the ASX and has a capitalisation of nearly $10 billion.

The TAB is owned by the New Zealand Racing Board and has operated since 1951.

NZRB’s John Allen described the TAB as an “exciting opportunity and an iconic brand,” when he took up the CEO role in 2015.

The TAB also owns Trackside TV which broadcasts race meetings and race shows.

Newsroom’s sources say the Australian deal would also involve them taking control of the broadcasting rights and the timetable of race meetings and races in New Zealand.

When approached by Newsroom for comment on what might happen to Tracksideif the Australians took over, one prominent staffer said it was likely that “racing in New Zealand will end up getting covered like Tasmania or other Australian states. They won’t cross to our tracks five minutes before the race like happens now and the narrative of racing will be lost.

“It might be a short-term win in terms of the money but in the long-term it will hurt racing in this country.”

Other industry figures approached by Newsroom felt the proposal would reduce costs in the racing industry and boost stakes, but the  outsourcing of betting and broadcasting to the Australians could cost up to 600 jobs.

“It sounds very short-sighted, if we had sold Air New Zealand to Qantas when the share price was at 16.5 cents we would be kicking ourselves.  The share price is now over $3. It is the same for racing, we risk selling out at a low point that we will regret.”

It is understood that the report also recommends that the number of race tracks be rationalised, a touchy subject in provinces where race meetings and the facilities at race tracks draw the communities together. 

It is thought the number of tracks could be reduced from 57 to around 25.

Racing industry sources point out that it is not uncommon for recommendations to be ignored or only a few taken up by Government but there are signs that Peters is not looking to cherry pick from Messara’s report.

At the New Zealand Thoroughbred Awards on Sunday night, the Minister for Racing ended his speech by telling the audience that he wanted them to embrace the report “lock, stock and two smoking barrels".

Peters will speak and release the full report at a public meeting at the Claudelands Arena in Hamilton tonight. The New Zealand Racing Board will also live-stream the event.

 

[Newmarket]

Trackside presenters might be a thing of the past? 

Tab outlets, pubs, tab terminals on course , how will that work? 

57 tracks to 25? 

600 jobs could be gone? 

Wonder which will be acted on? 

[pete]

Something's got to give. The TAB ceased servicing the needs of the racing industry years ago.

Personally I'd be all for it because we're running out of options.

Die or adapt.

[Reefton]

Labour, NZ First and their wanker hangers on leaking again.  Dear oh dear!  Maybe Simon could tack on an enquiry to his one!

I couldn't argue with tracks rationalisation but I wonder if that includes trotting tracks?  Reckon there would be about 5 or 6 in the south

Riccarton Addington Ashburton Wingatui Invercargill.  Not going to be a lot of quality winter(galloping) tracks among that lot

If it slashes the staff number sin the heirarchy I am all for it but do feel for the presenters and trackside staff who will be dumped.  Some good people there.

 

[Reefton]

All those Clubs that rolled over and have turned control of their assets on wind up to NZTR - guess how the AWT's will be funded?

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Reefton said:

All those Clubs that rolled over and have turned control of their assets on wind up to NZTR - guess how the AWT's will be funded?

I see a new purpose built track in mainland China cost $650m to build.  Track AND amenities.

[globederby12]

Well the Aussie Banks own us, so I suppose it follows in logical order that our once proud racing heritage now goes down the gurgler ,as we become nothing but a satellite state. Lovely. 

Mind you Govt doesn't have to act on any recommendations as is the Govts want. However I can see Peters already like a dog after a bone ,and at least we have movement in some direction.

 

[Reefton]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I see a new purpose built track in mainland China cost $650m to build.  Track AND amenities.

Well lets see ....

50 racecourses divided by $650,000,000 - $13,000,000 a pop.

And knowing them it will still be a disaster!

 

 

[Newmarket]

18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I see a new purpose built track in mainland China cost $650m to build.  Track AND amenities.

Also, you cant even gamble there? 

[gee]

to be  honnest its all got  be acceppted  so  dont get excited to much 

[hesi]

If TAB goes I presume the whole NZRB organization goes

That's over 200 mil in costs per annum

If Tabcorp can generate the same net betting revenue for half the cost, I presume that means an extra 100 mil to come back to racing of which of course a lot bigger cut would have to go to sports

[MaltedMilkshake]

1 hour ago, globederby12 said:

Well the Aussie Banks own us, so I suppose it follows in logical order that our once proud racing heritage now goes down the gurgler ,as we become nothing but a satellite state. Lovely. 

Mind you Govt doesn't have to act on any recommendations as is the Govts want. However I can see Peters already like a dog after a bone ,and at least we have movement in some direction.

 

Well in all honesty, the industry has had ample opportunity to get it right...and it’s failed. So TABcorp is the obvious entity to clean up the mess and turn it into something viable...if it’s worth saving at all.

Otherwise you may well ride into the sunset...and flog off what you can while you can..

[Newmarket]

32 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

Well in all honesty, the industry has had ample opportunity to get it right...and it’s failed. So TABcorp is the obvious entity to clean up the mess and turn it into something viable...if it’s worth saving at all.

Otherwise you may well ride into the sunset...and flog off what you can while you can..

Sort of agree, tab had no competition for so long, and when they did, they just sat back and put the white flag up. 

Mergers all over the world with betting companies, tab were never going to survive in a high tech world by themselves. 

On a positive, combine all tab and tabcorp accounts, makes a far stonger combination going forward, especially for tab, with fewer accounts. 

No more high priority customers getting rebates

[Rowley Mile]

4 years ago, short of 3 months I opened my first TAB acc in NZ......just arrived in the country after 43 years........deposited a four figure amount.......proceeded to have my first bet a few days later......started slowly to test the system.........worked fair, the odds were shocking compared to my Oz TAB CORP accounts, and Sportsbet........however, a week or so later I tried to have a substantial wager, whoa and behold, the submit button hit a hurdle......around and around the wheel went, spinning like a poker machine at an RSL here.......odds have changed flashed before my eyes, I thought it may have been a 'small problem'.......oh sadness, No it wasn't.....it was a culture I was witnessing........after a few months of sheer and utter madness, trying and watching the big bets being deflected by the odds have changed bullshit, and then just plain nothing....I would hit submit and nada, zilch....it would just Sit there, the bet that is, until they jumped......

I wrote a scathing but succinct email to TAB and guess what, nada, zilch......it sums up TAB and racing in general.......the complete industry needs root and branch reform and at least Winnie is first base....what surprised me tonight is the total ignorance of Mr G Rogerson regarding the Racefields Legislation.......Graeme seems to think there are countless punters betting on NZ racing here in Oz and around the world,,,now we know the Waikato can sodden your brain....but for Gods sake, can someone explain to Rogie that the RL is a furphy, it works here in Oz as the turnover is amazing......and the bookies are prepared to cop it as the rewards are worth it...the magic word is bookies, without them you will push dung uphill.........IMO

[wally]

19 minutes ago, Rowley Mile said:

4 years ago, short of 3 months I opened my first TAB acc in NZ......just arrived in the country after 43 years........deposited a four figure amount.......proceeded to have my first bet a few days later......started slowly to test the system.........worked fair, the odds were shocking compared to my Oz TAB CORP accounts, and Sportsbet........however, a week or so later I tried to have a substantial wager, whoa and behold, the submit button hit a hurdle......around and around the wheel went, spinning like a poker machine at an RSL here.......odds have changed flashed before my eyes, I thought it may have been a 'small problem'.......oh sadness, No it wasn't.....it was a culture I was witnessing........after a few months of sheer and utter madness, trying and watching the big bets being deflected by the odds have changed bullshit, and then just plain nothing....I would hit submit and nada, zilch....it would just Sit there, the bet that is, until they jumped......

I wrote a scathing but succinct email to TAB and guess what, nada, zilch......it sums up TAB and racing in general.......the complete industry needs root and branch reform and at least Winnie is first base....what surprised me tonight is the total ignorance of Mr G Rogerson regarding the Racefields Legislation.......Graeme seems to think there are countless punters betting on NZ racing here in Oz and around the world,,,now we know the Waikato can sodden your brain....but for Gods sake, can someone explain to Rogie that the RL is a furphy, it works here in Oz as the turnover is amazing......and the bookies are prepared to cop it as the rewards are worth it...the magic word is bookies, without them you will push dung uphill.........IMO

i like your response but 43 years ago what tab corp account where avail then

[Newmarket]

Just flicking thru report, i find this quote intetesting. I knew it was hard making money on nz racing, even computers struggle ?

[Rowley Mile]

18 minutes ago, wally said:

i like your response but 43 years ago what tab corp account where avail then

If you know anything about Oz Wally, TAB CORP is the TAB here in OZ....they have shareholders, unlike the joke you have in NZ......they are answerable to the floor......is that clear enough for you. If you read my post I say I arrived in NZ after 43 years, TAB CORP is synonymous with Oz racing......I was 18 when I left NZ.......61 when I returned, oh why I ask myself, John M has at least left the door open for free thinking and responsible, contentious Kiwi's to fix the mire, can they? will they?......for all your sakes I hope so, too late for me, but it might save the young ones who are trainers and owners son's and daughters Wally, otherwise your racing industry is rooted.....and it's nearly rooted now.

[Mooncoin]

Let's hope the present  state of NZ racing isn't an Omen for my TabCorp shares!!!?

[wally]

1 hour ago, Rowley Mile said:

If you know anything about Oz Wally, TAB CORP is the TAB here in OZ....they have shareholders, unlike the joke you have in NZ......they are answerable to the floor......is that clear enough for you. If you read my post I say I arrived in NZ after 43 years, TAB CORP is synonymous with Oz racing......I was 18 when I left NZ.......61 when I returned, oh why I ask myself, John M has at least left the door open for free thinking and responsible, contentious Kiwi's to fix the mire, can they? will they?......for all your sakes I hope so, too late for me, but it might save the young ones who are trainers and owners son's and daughters Wally, otherwise your racing industry is rooted.....and it's nearly rooted now.

so rowley your back here now in nz its so confusing as i iunderstand it when i i use to drink at the doutta gall a tabcorp never existed

[Rowley Mile]

Wally, you need AA mate....used to drink?........I'm in Brisbane.....23 degrees today, tomorrow 27....you beaut......I bailed out of NZ as it was raining fukwits, not all, plenty on here are champions but fukwits where I was......after being away 43 years I couldn't stand the fukwitism.....I used to drink at the Sydney Liars Club on Racecourse Rd Newmarket......when I trained at Flemington......those were the days...Lee Freedman wasn't fat, and we hadn't heard of cobalt.....now they're memories.

[barryb]

Rowley’s got your number Tank.

[mardigras]

10 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Just flicking thru report, i find this quote intetesting. I knew it was hard making money on nz racing, even computers struggle ?

And I'd agree with a large part of that. Especially the part about the standard of racing on the tracks. It is something the Messara report hasn't covered in my view. It's all very well cutting costs, economies of scale etc. But what in the report is going to INCREASE revenue to make racing sustainable here. Not just change the income/expense ratio in the short term. To increase the revenues, you are going to have to attract punters and I don't see that happening from what I've read so far.

On the computer models on NZ racing - they will also struggle as there simply is no money here. If you bet tote (such as what they must have been alluding to given mentioning rebates), you have to overcome the commission impact which is huge. If you don't bet tote, you'd have to manage accounts everywhere to try and avoid limitations or bet through betting organisations that won't limit you (such as an exchange), where there is near nil liquidity on NZ racing.

Edited August 30, 2018 by mardigras

[Newmarket]

53 minutes ago, mardigras said:

And I'd agree with a large part of that. Especially the part about the standard of racing on the tracks. It is something the Messara report hasn't covered in my view. It's all very well cutting costs, economies of scale etc. But what in the report is going to INCREASE revenue to make racing sustainable here. Not just change the income/expense ratio in the short term. To increase the revenues, you are going to have to attract punters and I don't see that happening from what I've read so far.

On the computer models on NZ racing - they will also struggle as there simply is no money here. If you bet tote (such as what they must have been alluding to given mentioning rebates), you have to overcome the commission impact which is huge. If you don't bet tote, you'd have to manage accounts everywhere to try and avoid limitations or bet through betting organisations that won't limit you (such as an exchange), where there is near nil liquidity on NZ racing.

Mardi, 

I see in that report somewhere, they want live betting options also. Not every state in aus allows live betting, do you think betfair may be more of a player here?

Tab already spent $40mil on fixed odds platform, is this worthless now, or will new operator continue? 

If Tab was now Tabcorp, i would be likely to bet more with them, as i like the aus type of operators, their apps are good, systems quick, and for the regular punters, they look after them with promos, they have to as plenty of competition. So would this not be an increase of revenue, attracting many like myself to bet on nz racing again thru tabcorp (tab). I can certainly see an increase of account holders in nz, many nz punters will have all the options etc they require, so no need to go elsewhere. 

You also know, that tabcorp will do anything they can to increase betting. They will offer all sorts of promos to do this, i think its gonna be great

[mardigras]

10 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Mardi, 

I see in that report somewhere, they want live betting options also. Not every state in aus allows live betting, do you think betfair may be more of a player here?

Tab already spent $40mil on fixed odds platform, is this worthless now, or will new operator continue? 

If Tab was now Tabcorp, i would be likely to bet more with them, as i like the aus type of operators, their apps are good, systems quick, and for the regular punters, they look after them with promos, they have to as plenty of competition. So would this not be an increase of revenue, attracting many like myself to bet on nz racing again thru tabcorp (tab). I can certainly see an increase of account holders in nz, many nz punters will have all the options etc they require, so no need to go elsewhere. 

You also know, that tabcorp will do anything they can to increase betting. They will offer all sorts of promos to do this, i think its gonna be great

I would be guessing that if it goes to an Oz operator, they will look to make TAB infrastructure obsolete over time. I think they should have done something similar 11 years ago instead of trying co-mingling. But they should ensure they do it with provisos around ensuring an 'NZ' aspect to what NZ gets. Broadcasting etc should be built into whatever is done.

Betfair is unlikely to ever be a presence here - at least until such time as there are tracks that present as viable punting options. You need layers prepared to risk their money to get decent liquidity - and even traders who whilst are merely scalping off events, do also provide liquidity.

I'd agree that their systems are better. But we must also remember that they are a commercial operation and they will want to make money for their shareholders. So where NZ TAB costs were high, Tabcorp or whoever, will be wanting to take their cut on top of costs. I don't imagine any fixed odds deal would progress under the current 'Messara' options.

if they do this, they should seek a licence fee (like what Tabcorp pays in Oz). And also a grandfathered level of funding to the industry to give some certainty around the future.