Stakes

[Doomed]

I just happened to notice the stakes for some races closing soon. Dyke $450,000, Telegraph $330,000, Oaks $480,000, Levin Classic $350,000. Does anyone think those stakes will attract better fields than $400,000, $300,000, $400,000, $300,000 respectively? That's at least $210,000 being pissed away to achieve nothing. What planet do these people live on? How the hell did they come up with $480,000 for the Oaks?

Could it be that they are delaying any move until after noms have closed for a lot of these feature races? Do they want to be able to say "we have to reduce stakes, but we can't reduce the Oaks etc because noms have already closed, so it will have to come off the $14,000 races."

Look at the two $40,000 races at Invercargill this weekend. Hardly flash. They would have got identical fields for $30,000.

[nomates]

Just now, Doomed said:

I just happened to notice the stakes for some races closing soon. Dyke $450,000, Telegraph $330,000, Oaks $480,000, Levin Classic $350,000. Does anyone think those stakes will attract better fields than $400,000, $300,000, $400,000, $300,000 respectively? That's at least $210,000 being pissed away to achieve nothing. What planet do these people live on? How the hell did they come up with $480,000 for the Oaks?

Could it be that they are delaying any move until after noms have closed for a lot of these feature races? Do they want to be able to say "we have to reduce stakes, but we can't reduce the Oaks etc because noms have already closed, so it will have to come off the $14,000 races."

Look at the two $40,000 races at Invercargill this weekend. Hardly flash. They would have got identical fields for $30,000.

I think the Dykes is made up from a large lump of money from the Dykes family , as for the others you would get the same field if the Telegraph was 250k , Oaks 300k and the Levin Classic 200k-220k .

I don't believe that there is any subterfuge going on , i just think they got caught out with the TAB shortfall and have no idea where to go .

I also believe they shouldn't be under writing the stakes with reserves , they are going to need the reserves later , possibly to prop stakes when they really hit rock bottom . They should start slashing stakes now but they won't . 

Selfishly i hope they don't , i could be running in a couple of those races for the first time in my life , there is the self interest in racing , i would live with it if they did tho .

The first big saving they could make is stopping the Millions funding , huge saving there alone . 

[Doomed]

The Dyke certainly has a bigger club input at $120,000 than most of the other "special" races. But still costs the industry $330,000. Trentham seems to be treated as a favoured child and they toss in very little of their own money to any of their feature races: $40,000 to the Oaks and Levin Classic, $30,000 the Wgtn Cup and $20,000 the Telegraph. So the Oaks costs NZTR $440,000. At least the CJC contributes $175,000 to the 2,000 Guineas.

As Nomates says, the two million races cost the industry $500,000 which is crazy for a couple of sweepstakes. They obviously don't understand the meaning of sweepstakes.

Perhaps we should have a sweepstake to pick when NZTR finally realises things may be going wrong?

 

[Chief Stipe]

38 minutes ago, nomates said:

I don't believe that there is any subterfuge going on , i just think they got caught out with the TAB shortfall and have no idea where to go .

How they hell did the get "caught out with the TAB shortfall"?  It was bleeding obvious for many months where things were heading.

[Bloke]

11 minutes ago, Doomed said:

The Dyke certainly has a bigger club input at $120,000 than most of the other "special" races. But still costs the industry $330,000. Trentham seems to be treated as a favoured child and they toss in very little of their own money to any of their feature races: $40,000 to the Oaks and Levin Classic, $30,000 the Wgtn Cup and $20,000 the Telegraph. So the Oaks costs NZTR $440,000. At least the CJC contributes $175,000 to the 2,000 Guineas.

As Nomates says, the two million races cost the industry $500,000 which is crazy for a couple of sweepstakes. They obviously don't understand the meaning of sweepstakes.

Perhaps we should have a sweepstake to pick when NZTR finally realises things may be going wrong?

 

The Karaka Millions Sweepstake is run by a rich lister. He should simply be told "it is your business, you pay".  After all, NZB raves on each year about how successful the sales are.

[nomates]

The interesting take out from the TAB's announcement was their acceptance that that there will be an 15Mil shortfall in distribution fro the season with no " We expect things to improve thru the second half of the season with these new initiatives that we are going to be rolling out to increase turnovers , hence we do expect the distribution deficit should not be as large as we are forecasting " .

We are only 1 third of the way thru the season but already they seem to have an acceptance that the decline cannot be reigned back .

So does that mean that NZTR should clearly start planning for a 12Mil shortfall , minimum , for the 23/24 season , and if that is their strategy then they should start implementing it before the end of the season .

They have not projected any stakes past April 25th so clearly there is a demarcation line for them to start the pull back of stakes .

[nomates]

Just now, Bloke said:

The Karaka Millions Sweepstake is run by a rich lister. He should simply be told "it is your business, you pay".  After all, NZB raves on each year about how successful the sales are.

I would like to know the breakdown of how much comes from enrollments , ATC and NZB contributions .

[Doomed]

13 minutes ago, nomates said:

I would like to know the breakdown of how much comes from enrollments , ATC and NZB contributions .

It's a bloody sweepstake. You would expect virtually the lot to come from owner payments and perhaps $20,000 or so from the sponsor. If there is a short fall just increase the nom and acceptance payments.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

How they hell did the get "caught out with the TAB shortfall"?  It was bleeding obvious for many months where things were heading.

I agree. The acting surprised is bizarre.

[Joe Bloggs]

All the Vela sycophants will be having apoplexy if they are reading this thread, there could be a call out for defibrillators, you lot should be ashamed of yourselves......

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, curious said:

I agree. The acting surprised is bizarre.

It is going to get worse in my opinion.  A respected business friend of mine in Auckland told me that recessionary times are already kicking in.  There won't be a lot of spare discretionary cash to spend on an overpriced and comparatively poor quality product.

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Joe Bloggs said:

All the Vela sycophants will be having apoplexy if they are reading this thread, there could be a call out for defibrillators, you lot should be ashamed of yourselves......

The Karaka Millions is an easy target.  The problem is wider than those two races.  Hell bad enough when comparing midweek to Saturday when the fields are the same quality.

[The Centaur]

2 hours ago, Bloke said:

The Karaka Millions Sweepstake is run by a rich lister. He should simply be told "it is your business, you pay".  After all, NZB raves on each year about how successful the sales are.

When it comes to Ready To Run clubs should be involved and receive income. After all its racing infrastructure that is used to educate these horses. NZB should not have a monopoly particularly online. NZTR has the data to generate breeding catalogues. Just needs some initiative.

[nod]

The Oaks stake is offset by the nom and acceptance costs so in reality it is about 300k and the rest a sweepstake.NZTR tell lies about how much a horse has earned -they do not deduct the trainers and jockey percentages not the entry costs.

[KickintheKods]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is going to get worse in my opinion.  A respected business friend of mine in Auckland told me that recessionary times are already kicking in.  There won't be a lot of spare discretionary cash to spend on an overpriced and comparatively poor quality product.

Just got this email from our trade supplier. By the end of Summer, this country is going to be well and truly stuffed - there won't be any discretionary cash to have a punt.

 

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[Doomed]

3 hours ago, curious said:

I agree. The acting surprised is bizarre.

It does tend to make them look pretty stupid. As I often say, arrogance, ignorance or incompetence. I seriously don't know which.

My god, if the late Jack Bennet was still running things he would be saying "how the fuck did you not see that coming?" and "What are we going to do about it". Geez, even the trots, who to quote the classic saying, wouldn't know the postman was up them until he blew his whistle, at least came in and worked over the weekend. 

Sharrock and George had no intention of working the weekend. They will "revisit" the situation at the end of the season. Probably be far too late by then.

Surely it is time for the clubs, trainers, owners and jockeys, even the breeders, to get together and decide the industry is being run by incompetents and do something about it.

I don't think the industry has ever been so badly run, and at the worst possible time. Although it is possibly the worst possible time because it has been so badly run for so long.

Surely George and Sharrock must go? If they keep them on the industry deserves everything it gets.

[Doomed]

3 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

All the Vela sycophants will be having apoplexy if they are reading this thread, there could be a call out for defibrillators, you lot should be ashamed of yourselves......

I must say, the half doz or so regular contributors on here who have been pointing out he problems facing the industry for the last few years have, sadly, been proven correct in just about everything they have said.

All that time I'm sure NZTR has probably just thought they were a bunch of whinging stirrers.

The sad thing is, none of us are brain surgeons, and yet we managed to spot things weren't quite right. So how the hell could people on over $250,000 a year not notice that the industry was in a spot of bother?

[Doomed]

Does anyone know if the Jockeys, trainers, owners, breeders etc have noticed that things aren't going that well? Do you think any of their governing bodies might want to have some input?

[curious]

9 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Does anyone know if the Jockeys, trainers, owners, breeders etc have noticed that things aren't going that well? Do you think any of their governing bodies might want to have some input?

They might have noticed but if they were going to do something they would have done so a decade or so ago. They all seem to just be resigned to going down with the ship or they are taking to the lifeboats.

[Doomed]

7 minutes ago, curious said:

They might have noticed but if they were going to do something they would have done so a decade or so ago. They all seem to just be resigned to going down with the ship or they are taking to the lifeboats.

Not sure they would know how to find the life boats.

[curious]

4 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Not sure they would know how to find the life boats.

Maybe not many that are left but the likes of Chris Waller managed to find one 20 years ago.

[Bloke]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The Karaka Millions is an easy target.  The problem is wider than those two races.  Hell bad enough when comparing midweek to Saturday when the fields are the same quality.

I agree that the problem is wider but if you need to cut costs you pick on the low-lying fruit which Karaka Millions is one. Will it happen? 

No, I do not think so because The Members Council select the Board and therefore set the agenda. Then look at the make-up of the Members Council and see who has a conflict of interest and who is part of The Old Boys Network.

We need to go back to democracy and let rank and file clubs have some say in these appointments.  Bit of course that is not going to happen either.

[Chief Stipe]

49 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I must say, the half doz or so regular contributors on here who have been pointing out he problems facing the industry for the last few years have, sadly, been proven correct in just about everything they have said.

All that time I'm sure NZTR has probably just thought they were a bunch of whinging stirrers.

The sad thing is, none of us are brain surgeons, and yet we managed to spot things weren't quite right. So how the hell could people on over $250,000 a year not notice that the industry was in a spot of bother?

All you needed to be able to do was know how to analyse an annual report that was public notice.  Plus have a modicum of understanding of the wagering industry.

[Joe Bloggs]

59 minutes ago, Bloke said:

I agree that the problem is wider but if you need to cut costs you pick on the low-lying fruit which Karaka Millions is one. Will it happen? 

No, I do not think so because The Members Council select the Board and therefore set the agenda. Then look at the make-up of the Members Council and see who has a conflict of interest and who is part of The Old Boys Network.

We need to go back to democracy and let rank and file clubs have some say in these appointments.  Bit of course that is not going to happen either.

Ahh that old well used word springs to mind, cartel, not the Escobar type, but a cartel all the same, the result will be the same, thousands of innocent buggers hurt badly, in fact many are already hurting badly........fucking sad all this ain't it?

[Peanut]

13 hours ago, Bloke said:

I agree that the problem is wider but if you need to cut costs you pick on the low-lying fruit which Karaka Millions is one. Will it happen? 

No, I do not think so because The Members Council select the Board and therefore set the agenda. Then look at the make-up of the Members Council and see who has a conflict of interest and who is part of The Old Boys Network.

We need to go back to democracy and let rank and file clubs have some say in these appointments.  Bit of course that is not going to happen either.

Yet when it comes to advertising the new appointment of new Board members this year the MC has the arrogance to say they are unlikely to make any changes at this time.    If you want to talk about conflicts of interest look no further than the Chair of the MC especially when it relates to RACE and Awapuni.