Sad

[Reefton]

8 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Last week I had trackside on, I don't watch that often, I think it was a screenshot of the Gore course, hardly a soul there, looked like the sort of crowd that probably you would see at the trotting trials which strangely they don't have anymore.

And that was the big day of the year, one thing I did notice is the track was a soft  5 or 6 and they are having a very dry spell.

Yes well Mike the Coast all had good crowds.  We had a bloody good bunch building up but alas the 'higher authority' decided he doesn't like people enjoying themselves so stomped on it

They must dead set hate Kumara with the crowd getting around the bend into the straight and all around to the bend into the back.  Anyone see the drone shots?  They tell me they were great.

But make no error he had a serious crack at shutting them down the day before too.  What has the Coast done to deserve the treatment it gets?

 

 

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

I was there!!!!!

I did say there were literally 2 people sitting over on the public stand side, was one of them you?

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Yes well Mike the Coast all had good crowds.  We had a bloody good bunch building up but alas the 'higher authority' decided he doesn't like people enjoying themselves so stomped on it

They must dead set hate Kumara with the crowd getting around the bend into the straight and all around to the bend into the back.  Anyone see the drone shots?  They tell me they were great.

But make no error he had a serious crack at shutting them down the day before too.  What has the Coast done to deserve the treatment it gets?

 

 

Hard to explain why, I obviously lead a boring life, but I was looking through the Messara report the other day, just for "fun?"  I note three of the Coast tracks were going to be closed down and Kumara was going to hold four meetings in a row. How do you think that would have gone Reefton?

[Shad]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Yes well Mike the Coast all had good crowds.  We had a bloody good bunch building up but alas the 'higher authority' decided he doesn't like people enjoying themselves so stomped on it

They must dead set hate Kumara with the crowd getting around the bend into the straight and all around to the bend into the back.  Anyone see the drone shots?  They tell me they were great.

But make no error he had a serious crack at shutting them down the day before too.  What has the Coast done to deserve the treatment it gets?

 

 

Seem they don't want the small successful clubs where the turnovers are good and the big crowds have a great old day, they rather their boring metropolitan meetings where hardly an buggar attends and the atmosphere is lacking, just crazy, there that dumb.

 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

I did say there were literally 2 people sitting over on the public stand side, was one of them you?

I generally ventured out to watch the races - what's the bloody point of all that travel if, like most people, you are going to watch it on the TV's - but spent most of the day in the bar(not that I was drinking but my two mates were and I was driving home)

Two amusing things.  Although there were bugger all there they still had a lady opening the door for people entering and leaving the stand.  must have plenty of money the CJC.  And the other thing was since I had half a leg of one running I went to the owners area (for my one beer of the day) with my mate.  They were very reluctant to dish up two beers.  Bit miserable I thought.

For all that is wasn't a bad day.  The track seemed to play well and the racing looked OK to me but not much atmosphere and the horse didn't bloody win!

 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

Hard to explain why, I obviously lead a boring life, but I was looking through the Messara report the other day, just for "fun?"  I note three of the Coast tracks were going to be closed down and Kumara was going to hold four meetings in a row. How do you think that would have gone Reefton?

Well..........

The issue with running them all at Kumara is Kumara has no stables and no training tracks so they had to keep Greymouth.  But Omoto is cronically flood prone and when I told Bernard there was no way they were going to be allowed to evacuate to Reefton if we did not have a meeting at our venue NZTR sort of capitulated.

Mr Oatham was a lot closer to success in shutting us down than Mr Messara was!

[Reefton]

19 minutes ago, Reefton said:

I generally ventured out to watch the races - what's the bloody point of all that travel if, like most people, you are going to watch it on the TV's - but spent most of the day in the bar(not that I was drinking but my two mates were and I was driving home)

Two amusing things.  Although there were bugger all there they still had a lady opening the door for people entering and leaving the stand.  must have plenty of money the CJC.  And the other thing was since I had half a leg of one running I went to the owners area (for my one beer of the day) with my mate.  They were very reluctant to dish up two beers.  Bit miserable I thought.

For all that is wasn't a bad day.  The track seemed to play well and the racing looked OK to me but not much atmosphere and the horse didn't bloody win!

 

I did however manage to at least say hello to our good friend Freda.

I reckon the lack of appeal of Riccarton is it is a piss poor viewing course.  Even though I was outside for most races the only way I could see until the last 150 was to watch the big screen. On a big course with an essentially flat viewing area it is difficult.  I suppose I should have gone up into the stand but they are still miles away for the majority of the races.  And I could have stood in front of the old public stand but you are 100m off the post and things can change a lot in 100m at Riccarton.

I caught a couple of views of them charging down the outside rail at Trentham though - made me cringe on one of NZ Racing's biggest days.

[Freda]

10 hours ago, Reefton said:

Yes well Mike the Coast all had good crowds.  We had a bloody good bunch building up but alas the 'higher authority' decided he doesn't like people enjoying themselves so stomped on it

They must dead set hate Kumara with the crowd getting around the bend into the straight and all around to the bend into the back.  Anyone see the drone shots?  They tell me they were great.

But make no error he had a serious crack at shutting them down the day before too.  What has the Coast done to deserve the treatment it gets?

 

 

God only knows...but [ to bang a drum that is already well used ]  the closedown of Hokitika is another travesty.  If there WERE specific track issues that needed remediation, the Westland club had both the finances, and the will, to do the work itself.   It didn't need to call on 'industry' funding, like some bigger clubs have over the years.  The decision was made and that was that.

I have had some communication recently with Bruce Sharrock - and to give him due credit, he has replied to each and every one.  A different animal in that respect to his predecessors.

I mentioned the apparent insidious plan to close down country clubs and scuttle country racing, and he was adamant that was not on his agenda.  We shall see just how truthful he is - although mention was made of 'the model that is currently followed by NZTR '   which MAY indicate that his own thoughts and official ones are not the same.  Or perhaps I'm just being charitable.  Time will tell.

One thing is certain;  the actions taken by the Chief Stipendiary Steward recently need to be addressed.   And, as the RIB is supposed to be serving the wider racing industry - all three codes of it - there has to be accountability within its own structure.  That seems to be NOT happening.   Incompetence has been mentioned.  I take a stronger view.  If incompetence is being disguised by 'creative reporting'  i.e. lies, that is no longer incompetence but corruption.

You judge.

[Joe Bloggs]

It appears there is a ''Puppet Master'' at work here, a George Soros type, working behind the scenes and until said ''Puppet Master'' is outed and something done to reform both RIB and NZTR nothing will change.

The performance of Bayliss and Purcell then Saundry suggests something is inherently wrong at HQ, openly only a few questioned them/it as it's no secret that accountability obviously does not exist within the hallowed walls of the Petone Taj Mahal.

The future of domestic racing in NZ is dependent on conscience and will, the behaviour of the stipe involved in the Reefton fiasco apparently has neither, his motives need to be questioned, and there should be ramifications, if only for transparency.

[Chief Stipe]

51 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

until said ''Puppet Master'' is outed and something done to reform both RIB and NZTR nothing will change.

But the RIB is the result of "reform"! Many posters on the forums supported the reforms.  I recall @Thomass was one of the biggest advocates one reason being potential cost savings.  Yet expenses have blown out to far higher levels than before.

Some of us here including myself pointed out in no uncertain terms that the reforms were a mistake that would cost the industry dearly.  Not only in monetary terms but also integrity wise.

There were promises of the ex-cop INCA culture being cleaned out but nothing has happened yet.  Not surprisingly when the CEO is from the same ilk.

[Chief Stipe]

56 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

The future of domestic racing in NZ is dependent on conscience and will, the behaviour of the stipe involved in the Reefton fiasco apparently has neither, his motives need to be questioned, and there should be ramifications, if only for transparency.

Shouldn't it start with an inquiry into INCA?  Those involved in that are the source of the rot.

 

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

I mentioned the apparent insidious plan to close down country clubs and scuttle country racing, and he was adamant that was not on his agenda.

Hardly "insidious" as it has been blatantly publicised as the preferred course of action in the Messara report and the legislation that was passed.

[Freda]

41 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Hardly "insidious" as it has been blatantly publicised as the preferred course of action in the Messara report and the legislation that was passed.

Ok, good point.   Just omit ' apparent insidious'  from the post if you like.

[Joe Bloggs]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Shouldn't it start with an inquiry into INCA?  Those involved in that are the source of the rot.

 

Well that drags integrity and transparency to the the table, and we all know NZ and the aforementioned is an oxymoron.....

[Joe Bloggs]

I must say, I do put the boot into Petone, and there are several reasons for that, however, there must be some good, decent conscionable people at that edifice that actually care about our industry and it must be difficult to rise from their beds each morn and head off to face another day where someone within the industry suffers terribly due to decisions made by those above them.

By God there are some toothless tigers amongst management, it appears to most that the RIB are loose cannons with little or no direction.

NZTR lost it's way many years gone so the question of how to right the ship is indeed a source of worry and concern.

I for one applaud the few websites dedicated to our industry and for allowing at least a platform where venting of frustration and fury at times can be expelled, here in Australia we have had quite a few great outlets where opinions and views were expunged however two in particular are now behind paywalls which is in my view disgusting.

In a free market economy it was inevitable, however so many contributors voted with their feet and these once great vehicles of free speech are now chugging along firing on 2-3 cylinders at best.

One that has survived is doing nicely thanks to great moderators, and it's great to read the content, the opines and suggestions etc regarding the many issues we face daily.

Would the likes of John Messara and Peter V'Landys read these sites, I think not, but I do think their advisors do, and I have the same feeling about NZ and NZTR/RIB.

The fact that Bruce Sharrock replies to Freda's mail shows some responsibility and conscience, however I do think Bruce is the last chance coral for this sunset industry, it would be a remarkable opportunity for Bruce to become the saviour and shining light as the buck does well and truly stop with him.

If everyone emailed and called Bruce and I mean everyone, and voiced their concerns, the Trainers assoc from the South Island in particular as that demographic is in danger of complete collapse, then at least the snowball could become an avalanche.

If the will has gone and in reality I can't blame any of you, Reefton is a particular person who can't afford to be lost to the industry then in my opinion we are witnessing racing in its death throes.

Many of us on here lived through  the great times, the 60's and early 70's for me, and for you lot onto the 80's and 90's....we cant recapture those heady days, but wouldn't it be lovely, before we kick the bucket, to see a resurgence of racing and the only way to do that is as I've said countless times, root and branch reform, and as Chief Stipe has so eloquently advised, reform as per the RIB hasn't worked, so who really is pulling the strings?.....love to learn that, it might just be the catalyst after all.......Just Saying.

Joe.

 

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

reform as per the RIB hasn't worked, so who really is pulling the strings?

The colleagues - Apathy and Self-interest.

[Reefton]

31 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I must say, I do put the boot into Petone, and there are several reasons for that, however, there must be some good, decent conscionable people at that edifice that actually care about our industry and it must be difficult to rise from their beds each morn and head off to face another day where someone within the industry suffers terribly due to decisions made by those above them.

By God there are some toothless tigers amongst management, it appears to most that the RIB are loose cannons with little or no direction.

NZTR lost it's way many years gone so the question of how to right the ship is indeed a source of worry and concern.

I for one applaud the few websites dedicated to our industry and for allowing at least a platform where venting of frustration and fury at times can be expelled, here in Australia we have had quite a few great outlets where opinions and views were expunged however two in particular are now behind paywalls which is in my view disgusting.

In a free market economy it was inevitable, however so many contributors voted with their feet and these once great vehicles of free speech are now chugging along firing on 2-3 cylinders at best.

One that has survived is doing nicely thanks to great moderators, and it's great to read the content, the opines and suggestions etc regarding the many issues we face daily.

Would the likes of John Messara and Peter V'Landys read these sites, I think not, but I do think their advisors do, and I have the same feeling about NZ and NZTR/RIB.

The fact that Bruce Sharrock replies to Freda's mail shows some responsibility and conscience, however I do think Bruce is the last chance coral for this sunset industry, it would be a remarkable opportunity for Bruce to become the saviour and shining light as the buck does well and truly stop with him.

If everyone emailed and called Bruce and I mean everyone, and voiced their concerns, the Trainers assoc from the South Island in particular as that demographic is in danger of complete collapse, then at least the snowball could become an avalanche.

If the will has gone and in reality I can't blame any of you, Reefton is a particular person who can't afford to be lost to the industry then in my opinion we are witnessing racing in its death throes.

Many of us on here lived through  the great times, the 60's and early 70's for me, and for you lot onto the 80's and 90's....we cant recapture those heady days, but wouldn't it be lovely, before we kick the bucket, to see a resurgence of racing and the only way to do that is as I've said countless times, root and branch reform, and as Chief Stipe has so eloquently advised, reform as per the RIB hasn't worked, so who really is pulling the strings?.....love to learn that, it might just be the catalyst after all.......Just Saying.

Joe.

 

I have found the NZTR to be good to deal with re our fiasco.  They appreciate there was an issue here and advised that they are seeking a meeting with the RIB to try to sort this type of issue out for the future.  You cannot have one guy deciding just because he has a pre-conceived idea that he is going to try to shut three successive meetings down.  If they(RIB) want to shut us down tell us now so we can argue our case don't let us do hundreds of hours of volunteer work organising things then try to destroy us the day before or the day of the races.

NZTR have paid us our full meeting fees(no deduction for track issues) so they recognise it was no fault of ours.  Oatham himself, Richard Fenwick, Allan Chapman and Garry Foskett had all been on course in the preceding couple of months and nobody had a word of criticism of the track. 

Outside the RIB there is a massive amount of experience among ex jockeys(at our meeting Max Skelton, Mouse McCann David Walsh and Jimmy Walker - 6000 winners there) - they don't need to be playing stipes roles but getting them - and their ilk -  to do a track inspection the night before or on the day.  Those guys KNOW what they are looking at because they have seen it all before.

When we were in the Judicial room I asked Mouse to come with me - he pointed out he had ridden for 30 years at the track and that the slipping claim was BS - Oatham dismissed him outright.  And Mouse was a bloke who knew a bad track when he saw one.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Reefton

[Joe Bloggs]

Oatham or McCann?.......it's a no-brainer Ida thought, and it's certainly not Oatham, the fellow must have tickets on himself, this is the very thing that has to be eradicated and hopefully Mr Reefton's actions will bring this about.

For NZTR to survive they have to start listening, it appears on the surface anyway, they are........we stand by.

[Chief Stipe]

Reefton should be straight on the phone to Clement.  He's a reasonable guy to talk to.  A couple of the Board members are OK too.  

[Reefton]

24 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Reefton should be straight on the phone to Clement.  He's a reasonable guy to talk to.  A couple of the Board members are OK too.  

Don't worry Reefton has been 'on the phone' to Mr Clement.  Well letters to be fair and fairly forthright at that

Reefton is waiting for Mr Clement to come back from the latest barrage(of two weeks back).

Mr Clement has gone awfully quiet and Reefton suspects Mr Clement does not quite know what to do.  Mr Clement appears to have been fed a while heap of what could only be described as bullshit all of which has been refuted.

Until Mr Clement indicates the RIB is not interested in accepting the blame Reefton is giving them the benefit of the doubt and not putting the various correspondence up on BOAY or in the media.

 

[Chief Stipe]

19 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Don't worry Reefton has been 'on the phone' to Mr Clement.  Well letters to be fair and fairly forthright at that

Reefton is waiting for Mr Clement to come back from the latest barrage(of two weeks back).

Mr Clement has gone awfully quiet and Reefton suspects Mr Clement does not quite know what to do.  Mr Clement appears to have been fed a while heap of what could only be described as bullshit all of which has been refuted.

Until Mr Clement indicates the RIB is not interested in accepting the blame Reefton is giving them the benefit of the doubt and not putting the various correspondence up on BOAY or in the media.

 

Have you contacted any board members?  I know at least two are not happy with the current setup.

[Reefton]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Have you contacted any board members?  I know at least two are not happy with the current setup.

Let the bloody Board Members contact me

If they are in any way keen on racing they will be right up with the play re what went on.  If they are not in any way keen they, like every one of the various Board Members, should not be on the Board

If Clement is true to most of the CEO bullshit artists in NZ he will only start screeching about Management and Governance if one of the Board does poke their oar in.

If they aren't happy let them take some positive action to correct things

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Let the bloody Board Members contact me

If they are in any way keen on racing they will be right up with the play re what went on.  If they are not in any way keen they, like every one of the various Board Members, should not be on the Board

If Clement is true to most of the CEO bullshit artists in NZ he will only start screeching about Management and Governance if one of the Board does poke their oar in.

If they aren't happy let them take some positive action to correct things

Just call him and some Board members.  Be proactive.

[Reefton]

38 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Just call him and some Board members.  Be proactive.

Thanks for the advice but if I need it I will ask for it

I do not ring anyone.  40 years of dealing with government departments, banks, insurance companies and whatever other bludging organisations there are in this country has taught me you communicate in writing because they will invariably deny saying what they actually said.  OR they will twist what  you said.   When it is in black and white they cannot worm their way out of things.  That's why you will find when dealing with IRD or ACC they will generally only tell you their first name - so when you refer back to the conversation or attempt to rely on what they tell you you have no idea of exactly who it was you were dealing with.

You can't beat the evidence being in your hot little hand and there have been one or two crossed me that I have a little file of evidence on to prove they are telling whoppers.  A bit to do with racing but mostly family and some business.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Reefton

[Special Agent]

Reefton, I admire what you have done to date.  I wish you luck.  All small clubs are relying on a favourable outcome.  Let's hope their support is available if required.