Reefton Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Special Agent said: Reefton, I admire what you have done to date. I wish you luck. All small clubs are relying on a favourable outcome. Let's hope their support is available if required. Thanks but don't hold your breath for a successful outcome. Getting these guys to admit they are wrong will be a little bit challenging! But the letters/reports will be entertaining I am sure(well I hope) Edited January 30, 2023 by Reefton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Reefton said: Thanks for the advice but if I need it I will ask for it I do not ring anyone. 40 years of dealing with government departments, banks, insurance companies and whatever other bludging organisations there are in this country has taught me you communicate in writing because they will invariably deny saying what they actually said. OR they will twist what you said. When it is in black and white they cannot worm their way out of things. That's why you will find when dealing with IRD or ACC they will generally only tell you their first name - so when you refer back to the conversation or attempt to rely on what they tell you you have no idea of exactly who it was you were dealing with. You can't beat the evidence being in your hot little hand and there have been one or two crossed me that I have a little file of evidence on to prove they are telling whoppers. A bit to do with racing but mostly family and some business. Stop being a belligerent old prick. You've sent your concerns in writing. Give Clement a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Hey Reefton , did a belligerent old prick just call you , a belligerent old prick ? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, nomates said: Hey Reefton , did a belligerent old prick just call you , a belligerent old prick ? Well FFS why not give the guy a call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 I know what you are saying. I have spoken to Mike Clement. There was some satisfaction with his actions and instructions. However, I think you will find he will be quick to dismiss any involvement at club level. Don't let my experience put you off though. I can see where Chief is coming from. Like our parents taught us, nothing ventured nothing gained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Special Agent said: I know what you are saying. I have spoken to Mike Clement. There was some satisfaction with his actions and instructions. However, I think you will find he will be quick to dismiss any involvement at club level. Don't let my experience put you off though. I can see where Chief is coming from. Like our parents taught us, nothing ventured nothing gained. I had a big issue on BOAY and spoke with him directly. Considering I had given him and the RIB a big diss I found him pretty damn reasonable to talk to. The issue was dealt to effectively and in the right way. I've also spoken to a couple of RIB board members and they are as frustrated as the rest of us. In my opinion as my father taught me it is best to tackle these things head on and at the end of the day we all put our legs in the same holes in our pyjama's. If Reefton wants some phone numbers then he can PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 If that's the case who's pulling the strings then?....who is this Mr Big these bastards are hiding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 33 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: In my opinion as my father taught me it is best to tackle these things head on I've tackled it head on all right. If and when the letters and docs come out I think everyone will see that Same as I did when Saundry and co tried to shut us down. I've got his phone number but I cannot for the life of me see why I would ring him. It isn't me who has made a prick of myself(nor to be fair is it him but his name is on the letterhead of the joint so it is his responsibility) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Reefton, you obviously have tackled them with some amount of force. Plenty of other outfits have merely crumpled and surrendered at the slightest touch of pressure. My worry would be how the problem may fester or stagnate without a good old fashioned prod or two. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 6 hours ago, Reefton said: I've tackled it head on all right. If and when the letters and docs come out I think everyone will see that Same as I did when Saundry and co tried to shut us down. I've got his phone number but I cannot for the life of me see why I would ring him. It isn't me who has made a prick of myself(nor to be fair is it him but his name is on the letterhead of the joint so it is his responsibility) Yes, Reefton, the buck always stops at the top. If some wally comes into my stable yard and a gate is found unlatched, and a horse has repaired to the hayshed to feast overnight, it is still MY FAULT. The systems were clearly not robust or foolproof enough. So, to airily say, oh, nothing to do with me, just doesn't cut it. That happens a lot in this neck of the woods, but I won't go into that any further for now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 11 hours ago, Reefton said: I've tackled it head on all right. If and when the letters and docs come out I think everyone will see that Same as I did when Saundry and co tried to shut us down. I've got his phone number but I cannot for the life of me see why I would ring him. It isn't me who has made a prick of myself(nor to be fair is it him but his name is on the letterhead of the joint so it is his responsibility) Have you coordinated with the other club or clubs that had similar issues with the Stipe in question to add weight to your submissions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Didn't know you needed a mentor Reefton . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 58 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Have you coordinated with the other club or clubs that had similar issues with the Stipe in question to add weight to your submissions? With all due respect I am aware of everything that went on here but the other two Presidents are not the 'get on the front foot' type I am. And anyway they both avoided the abandonment threat so why are they going to protest about something that never eventuated? People are happy to go with the flow and not create waves, That applies throughout NZ Racing. I mean I very much doubt (for instance) there was a hell of a set to at the CJC over the November disaster(or among the Race committee either). People like me who are prepared to stand up are becoming more and more rare. And when you do give them a dead set bollocking you are accused of being a bully. Unless right minded people start to stand up and demand change and performance the game is doomed. And it is no secret my appetite to continue the battle has disappeared. I am finished at the next AGM. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 And therein lays the problem with good ship NZ racing........losing you? How many more?........do people like Oatham and co want a scorched earth policy?......because that's what's happening you stupid bastards..... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Yes, these people win in the end because they are in a position to wear the likes of Reefton down. Come on Reefton, do another round or two. I feel there must be common sense close by. The Coasters are a rare breed and are not quitters. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 31, 2023 Author Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Special Agent said: Yes, these people win in the end because they are in a position to wear the likes of Reefton down. Come on Reefton, do another round or two. I feel there must be common sense close by. The Coasters are a rare breed and are not quitters. I think sadly the people currently controlling NZ Racing don't really give a fuck about the future of the industry, they just want to wear down and hound out all of those who don't agree with them. A successful outcome for them will be to see off all opposition. When the Timaru's , Avondale's, Reefton's, Gore's, Marlborough's decide they can't be bothered anymore the industry will be stuffed. And some of them have already given up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Doomed said: I think sadly the people currently controlling NZ Racing don't really give a fuck about the future of the industry, they just want to wear down and hound out all of those who don't agree with them. A successful outcome for them will be to see off all opposition. When the Timaru's , Avondale's, Reefton's, Gore's, Marlborough's decide they can't be bothered anymore the industry will be stuffed. And some of them have already given up. indeed they have already given up Because you get rid of one of these guys trying to shut you down and another batch spring up. It is a constant battle and after 35 years of involvement in my Club - and also Greymouth for a time - I cannot be bothered any more. To be honest I don't know that anyone in the little Town(Reefton), other than the committee, appreciates it anyway. It is at the stage where I would rather be spending my Christmas break water skiing and drinking Heineken. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Special Agent said: Yes, these people win in the end because they are in a position to wear the likes of Reefton down. Come on Reefton, do another round or two. I feel there must be common sense close by. The Coasters are a rare breed and are not quitters. 2 hours ago, Doomed said: Flattering but I suspect common sense is a long way away. They will be thinking these guys are giving up, we can grab their assets and have a last harrah on the money until it is all gone too. Edited January 31, 2023 by Reefton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 I suppose too in this era many may be trying to hold on to their own assets, let alone those of their local racing club. We just need more numbers, more youthful members and interested parties. I can't wait for Dean McKenzie's individual national venue report. If he hasn't visited your track yet he won't be far away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Special Agent said: I suppose too in this era many may be trying to hold on to their own assets, let alone those of their local racing club. We just need more numbers, more youthful members and interested parties. I can't wait for Dean McKenzie's individual national venue report. If he hasn't visited your track yet he won't be far away. That doesn't fill me with much confidence. Dave Lloyd did a 'warrant of fitness' tour of racetracks, some time ago. Took him about nine months, he told me. But his opinions weren't heeded then, and I don't see any reason to be overly positive about Dean's involvement. Hope I'm wrong. BTW, S.A..don't you sleep? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Freda said: That doesn't fill me with much confidence. Dave Lloyd did a 'warrant of fitness' tour of racetracks, some time ago. Took him about nine months, he told me. But his opinions weren't heeded then, and I don't see any reason to be overly positive about Dean's involvement. Hope I'm wrong. BTW, S.A..don't you sleep? David Lloyd made a VERY sensible suggestion at the Oamaru meeting about the venue review three or four years back. 'Give every venue the opportunity to put its case to remain open' he said. Bernard dismissed it out of hand. I have certainly not always got on with David Lloyd but I approached him afterwards and offered support. It was a vastly more constructive idea than arbitrarily selecting venues for closure. The coincidence being most of the closure candidates were freehold property. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 54 minutes ago, Reefton said: The coincidence being most of the closure candidates were freehold property. Of course they were. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Unfortunately we live in a world, where speaking up and challenging the system is not wanted, and those that do are stepped on, or are pedaling misinformation, we are just supposed to be model citizens who follow the powers that be without question, sick world we live in, I'm afraid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 7 hours ago, Special Agent said: I can't wait for Dean McKenzie's individual national venue report. If he hasn't visited your track yet he won't be far away. Wow, how very independent with Mckenzie in charge and absolutely no links with NZTR to get to the outcomes they want either ... Not! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Reefton said: David Lloyd made a VERY sensible suggestion at the Oamaru meeting about the venue review three or four years back. 'Give every venue the opportunity to put its case to remain open' he said. Bernard dismissed it out of hand. I have certainly not always got on with David Lloyd but I approached him afterwards and offered support. It was a vastly more constructive idea than arbitrarily selecting venues for closure. The coincidence being most of the closure candidates were freehold property. Bernard would have just come up with the same outcomes they have now by... not listening. What the industry really needs or needed (I think its too late now anyway) was a true independent viewpoint, someone to listen to the pros and cons that knew a bit about the sport and make the venue decisions that were best for the entire industry longterm , not just for a few which is whats happened in reality and largely why we are where we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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